Author Topic: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70  (Read 1962 times)

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Offline encore58

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Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« on: January 15, 2008, 12:52:22 PM »
What is the overall consensus on 45/70 Encore barrel accuracy? Do they shoot average or above average or poorly? Give me your honest experiences and assessments. I am considering a 45/70 but don't want to waste my time and money if these barrels are marginal at best.
Thanks
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Offline Gary paugh

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2008, 03:00:20 PM »
Mine shoots very well i had the chamber throated by bellm , hornady 350grrn shoots into one big hole at 100yrds  so do 405gr gc bullets

Offline encore58

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2008, 03:51:00 PM »
Mine shoots very well i had the chamber throated by (censored word) , hornady 350grrn shoots into one big hole at 100yrds  so do 405gr gc bullets

How do they make a chamber tighter??? Or what exactly do you mean by throated?

Are the TC custom shop barrels better made than standard production. Can you have match grade chambers in custom barrels made by Fox Ridge Outfitters?
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Offline encore58

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2008, 02:37:23 PM »
I decided against this caliber. Not much of a response must mean no go. :o ;) ::) :-*
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Offline lonemeabuck

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2008, 01:14:25 PM »
JUST PURCHASED A FACTORY 45-70 BARREL IN SST FOR MY ENCORE.
SHOOTS GREAT WITH LESS RECOIL THAN EXPECTED WITH 300-325 GR
FACTORY LOADS.
BEST GROUP WAS ~.75" WITH FEDERAL 300GR SPEER.

Offline Varmint Hunter

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2008, 01:59:12 PM »
Exactly which barrel did you get; the 24" standard weight barrel? 20" Katahdin bull bbl? Other?

Offline 35w

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2008, 04:04:22 PM »
I have a standard 24" blue barrel with Williams peep sights. Using 53.0 gr of IMR 3031 and 300 gr Hornady bullets, off a rest it keeps 3" groups.
For whitetails, perfect for me.  As a fun load to plink with, it's a hoot !
The overall weight is too light, so the hot loads using 350 gr, for some may be a challenge.
45/70 is a cartridge that requires reloading tailoring to the firearm (and the nut behind it), plus it isn't a bench rest cartridge
I think a barrel shorter than 24" on a Encore wouldn't be desirable due to loss in muzzle weight.
Go for it and have fun...

Offline Varmint Hunter

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2008, 03:58:42 AM »
I was actually looking for a 45-70 barrel for my new ProHunter. I wanted a factory SS heavy barrel of 24" or more. Looks like there is no such animal. I'm not interested in a custom barrel, at increased cost, because the factory barrels are as accurate as I need in this short range cartridge. I was thinking of using it for 20yd - 60 yd black bear hunting.

Maybe I'll just use the muzzleloader barrel. ::)

Offline encore58

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2008, 10:43:10 AM »
I was actually looking for a 45-70 barrel for my new ProHunter. I wanted a factory SS heavy barrel of 24" or more. Looks like there is no such animal. I'm not interested in a custom barrel, at increased cost, because the factory barrels are as accurate as I need in this short range cartridge. I was thinking of using it for 20yd - 60 yd black bear hunting.

Maybe I'll just use the muzzleloader barrel. ::)

I am considering an MGM 45/70 barrel 27" long in bull barrel configuration. Probably put a 4200 Elite 2.x10 scope on it and use it for bench and varmits. Wonder what one could get out of a 27" barrel shooting 300 gr. bullets?
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Offline Keith L

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2008, 01:03:29 PM »
Varmints must grow big where you come from if it takes a 45/70 to put them down...
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."  Benjamin Franklin

Offline encore58

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2008, 01:30:46 PM »
Varmints must grow big where you come from if it takes a 45/70 to put them down...
My gunsmith friend uses a .458 Lott, 45/70 and a .405 he built off an Enfield action (sweet) to kill groundhogs with. We do things a little crazy in OHio.

 :-*
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Offline Varmint Hunter

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2008, 02:35:07 PM »
Varmints must grow big where you come from if it takes a 45/70 to put them down...
My gunsmith friend uses a .458 Lott, 45/70 and a .405 he built off an Enfield action (sweet) to kill groundhogs with. We do things a little crazy in OHio.

 :-*

Sounds like a good way to have large, heavy hunks of lead whizzing all over the countryside.

Why would you want a 45-70 for bench shooting or varmint shooting when there are so many better cartridges for either of those purposes? I'm not criticizing, just curious.

Offline Keith L

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2008, 07:53:04 PM »
Its those 2500 pound Ohio woodchucks.  You should see what it takes to deer hunt there!  You want to get those varmints with the first shot cause they charge when wounded!
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."  Benjamin Franklin

Offline encore58

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2008, 02:31:57 AM »
Varmints must grow big where you come from if it takes a 45/70 to put them down...
My gunsmith friend uses a .458 Lott, 45/70 and a .405 he built off an Enfield action (sweet) to kill groundhogs with. We do things a little crazy in OHio.

 :-*

Sounds like a good way to have large, heavy hunks of lead whizzing all over the countryside.

Why would you want a 45-70 for bench shooting or varmint shooting when there are so many better cartridges for either of those purposes? I'm not criticizing, just curious.

It will go a lot less distance than a 22-250 or the beloved 30-06. And, we have been shooting for over 40 years and always keep safety in mind. We have the area and land to keep it safe.
What about all those rifle hunters shooting 7mm mag all over the hill side hunting deer, etc.?  And when I say varmits, for me I personally am talking yotes. I run hounds and keep them yotes in line. They have attacked many young hounds in our area while running beagles. Where I run on my property, it is thick and I need a good brush busting round, like a .45 cal. I also use 12 ga. slugs.
 So, what's the difference. It's called using safety and common sense. Shoot what you like. My buddy gets a huge kick out of shooting large caliber rifles and builds them all the time. You ought to see them - awesome. He has a few (?) Nitro calibers too.
as for bench/target shooting a 45/70, ever heard of the big shoots out west with Creedmore's, etc. using large bore rifles in 45/70, etc.?

 ???
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Offline encore58

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2008, 02:33:04 AM »
Its those 2500 pound Ohio woodchucks.  You should see what it takes to deer hunt there!  You want to get those varmints with the first shot cause they charge when wounded!


 :o
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Offline lonemeabuck

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2008, 05:03:45 AM »
Exactly which barrel did you get; the 24" standard weight barrel? 20" Katahdin bull bbl? Other?

I SHOOT THE 24" STANDARD 45-70 WITH GREAT RESULTS.
TOO BAD IT DOESN'T COME FACTORY HEAVY/BULL TO DECREASE MUZZLE JUMP.
I WILL PROBABLY TRY IT ON WHITETAILS THIS FALL.

Offline encore58

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2008, 05:15:10 AM »
Exactly which barrel did you get; the 24" standard weight barrel? 20" Katahdin bull bbl? Other?

I SHOOT THE 24" STANDARD 45-70 WITH GREAT RESULTS.
TOO BAD IT DOESN'T COME FACTORY HEAVY/BULL TO DECREASE MUZZLE JUMP.
I WILL PROBABLY TRY IT ON WHITETAILS THIS FALL.

 I agree on the heavy barrel for sure but wish it was in 26 inch. 24" wouldn't be bad either.
Better watch out for flying chunks of lead whizzing all over the countryside.

::)
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Offline Varmint Hunter

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2008, 09:54:56 AM »
Varmints must grow big where you come from if it takes a 45/70 to put them down...
My gunsmith friend uses a .458 Lott, 45/70 and a .405 he built off an Enfield action (sweet) to kill groundhogs with. We do things a little crazy in OHio.

 :-*

Sounds like a good way to have large, heavy hunks of lead whizzing all over the countryside.

Why would you want a 45-70 for bench shooting or varmint shooting when there are so many better cartridges for either of those purposes? I'm not criticizing, just curious.

It will go a lot less distance than a 22-250 or the beloved 30-06. And, we have been shooting for over 40 years and always keep safety in mind. We have the area and land to keep it safe.
What about all those rifle hunters shooting 7mm mag all over the hill side hunting deer, etc.?  And when I say varmits, for me I personally am talking yotes. I run hounds and keep them yotes in line. They have attacked many young hounds in our area while running beagles. Where I run on my property, it is thick and I need a good brush busting round, like a .45 cal. I also use 12 ga. slugs.
 So, what's the difference. It's called using safety and common sense. Shoot what you like. My buddy gets a huge kick out of shooting large caliber rifles and builds them all the time. You ought to see them - awesome. He has a few (?) Nitro calibers too.
as for bench/target shooting a 45/70, ever heard of the big shoots out west with Creedmore's, etc. using large bore rifles in 45/70, etc.?

IN all fairness you didn't say coyotes, you said "groundhogs".

What you posted was:
"My gunsmith friend uses a .458 Lott, 45/70 and a .405 he built off an Enfield action (sweet) to kill groundhogs with. We do things a little crazy in OHio."

Groundhog hunting typically entails large volumes of fire over fairly flat ground. That type of hunting does not make the .458 Lott or 45/70 a very good choice. Big, slow bullets are notorious for ricochets under these conditions. That's why I asked why you chose those cartridges for groundhogs.

Not sure where you are going with the 7mm mags for deer hunting??????    No flame intended.

Offline encore58

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2008, 11:30:33 AM »
Varmints must grow big where you come from if it takes a 45/70 to put them down...
My gunsmith friend uses a .458 Lott, 45/70 and a .405 he built off an Enfield action (sweet) to kill groundhogs with. We do things a little crazy in OHio.

 :-*

Sounds like a good way to have large, heavy hunks of lead whizzing all over the countryside.

Why would you want a 45-70 for bench shooting or varmint shooting when there are so many better cartridges for either of those purposes? I'm not criticizing, just curious.

It will go a lot less distance than a 22-250 or the beloved 30-06. And, we have been shooting for over 40 years and always keep safety in mind. We have the area and land to keep it safe.
What about all those rifle hunters shooting 7mm mag all over the hill side hunting deer, etc.?  And when I say varmits, for me I personally am talking yotes. I run hounds and keep them yotes in line. They have attacked many young hounds in our area while running beagles. Where I run on my property, it is thick and I need a good brush busting round, like a .45 cal. I also use 12 ga. slugs.
 So, what's the difference. It's called using safety and common sense. Shoot what you like. My buddy gets a huge kick out of shooting large caliber rifles and builds them all the time. You ought to see them - awesome. He has a few (?) Nitro calibers too.
as for bench/target shooting a 45/70, ever heard of the big shoots out west with Creedmore's, etc. using large bore rifles in 45/70, etc.?

IN all fairness you didn't say coyotes, you said "groundhogs".

What you posted was:
"My gunsmith friend uses a .458 Lott, 45/70 and a .405 he built off an Enfield action (sweet) to kill groundhogs with. We do things a little crazy in OHio."

Groundhog hunting typically entails large volumes of fire over fairly flat ground. That type of hunting does not make the .458 Lott or 45/70 a very good choice. Big, slow bullets are notorious for ricochets under these conditions. That's why I asked why you chose those cartridges for groundhogs.

Not sure where you are going with the 7mm mags for deer hunting??????    No flame intended.
I'd kill a ground hog with a 45/70 in a heartbeat but that is not why i would be interested in buying one. More for yotes in the woods and brush and just general target shooting.  Might be kind of challenging out to about 200 yards to take a shot at a hog. Everyone has different styles and my buddy loves big bores and does not even get a little excited over a round like the 22-250. He likes big bore handguns and rifles. He is a hell of a gunsmith, machinist and shot. He has killed many hogs at long distances with big bore rifles. He is always aware of his backdrops and surroundings. No different than hunting anything with a big bore.
So your saying we shouldn't use big bores for hunting wild hogs, deer, yotes, bears, moose, etc. Same round and people shoot game across open land all the time. What about 12 ga. sabots or muzzle loaders. Should they be banned too or not recommended for hunting? They shoot some big chunks of lead pretty fast me thinks.
Last, many guys hunt mule deer out west with 7mm mags. Some even use the 45/70.
Basically, all I am saying is shoot what you like and let us shoot what we like.
No offense taken.
Have a good day.
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Offline Varmint Hunter

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2008, 12:36:10 PM »
Quote
So your saying we shouldn't use big bores for hunting wild hogs, deer, yotes, bears, moose, etc

No - actually what I said was almost the opposite. I said that I didn't think that they made good groundhog guns because of the potential for ricochets. Big bores are fine for many other applications. And no - I never suggested that you should be prevented from using a 458 Lott for groundhogs. I only inquired as to why you would make that choice.

Thanks for your responses - Enjoy your hunt to the fullest.

Offline encore58

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2008, 02:16:34 PM »
Quote
So your saying we shouldn't use big bores for hunting wild hogs, deer, yotes, bears, moose, etc

No - actually what I said was almost the opposite. I said that I didn't think that they made poor groundhog guns because of the potential for ricochets. Big bores are fine for many other applications. And no - I never suggested that you should be prevented from using a 458 Lott for groundhogs. I only inquired as to why you would make that choice.

Thanks for your responses - Enjoy your hunt to the fullest.

Of course they make poor ground hog guns. That's why my buddy enjoys knocking them dead with big bores at 200 yards.  ;D  I asked Joe why he shot groundhogs with these big bores and replied, "could never find any lions to hunt."
Personally, I don't buy into your ricochet theory. Many bullet calibers can ricochet. Use common sense and know your target and surroundings. It is really a no brainer. BTW, I own many nice Varmint rigs in .260, .223, 17HMR, 6mm, etc. so I am very familiar with flat shooting rifles, but I like them big bores too and just might get the itch to take a yote, or God forbid, a groundhog from time to time.
Looks like my thread turned into lesson 101 on gun safety, LOL.
I am finished with this thread.
Have a good one and be safe.
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Offline sweetwyominghome

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2008, 01:36:37 PM »
Varmint Hunter wrote: "Groundhog hunting typically entails large volumes of fire over fairly flat ground"

You must be thinking of prairie dogs. Ground hogs are generally hunted in farm-type terrain which is often rolling or hilly.

And if your ground hog hunting entails large volumes of fire, someone must be missing an awful lot...or else giving the ground hogs a fair chance by firing multiple warning shots (just kidding, of course). Unlike prairie dogs, I just have never, ever found them in such great numbers that "large volumes of fire" were required. 

As to big bores sending large chunks of lead across the countryside, I'll just end with this: I'd much have a neighbor who's a safe, conscientious shooter lobbing his 45-70 loads at varmints than a neighbor who gives little thought to backstops when he cuts loose with his .223.
---

Encore 58 wrote: "Are the TC custom shop barrels better made than standard production. Can you have match grade chambers in custom barrels made by Fox Ridge Outfitters?"

The custom shop barrels are nothing more than standard production barrels but with a greater choice in terms of caliber, contour and finish. And, Thompson-Center does not have the capability to cut a chamber any way other than the upper-end of SAAMI spec (and occasionally over).

They have actually produced barrels in .22LR and .38 Spl which were called "Match," but none that I tried ever measured up to true match specs as the tolerances were, for lack of a better description, on the "loose" side.  In fact, while both the standard and match chambers in .22 LR have shot quite well for me, on the whole, the standard chambers were the more accurate of the two when one considers aggregate scores over a number of years. 

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2008, 01:59:10 PM »

Wonder what one could get out of a 27" barrel shooting 300 gr. bullets?

With the right powder, you can do quite good over a shorter barrel, I did some comparisons between a 22" and 32" barrel using a couple powders, 150-200fps can be gained with the extra 10" of barrel using H322 and IMR4198 with 350gr bullets. With the wrong powder, very small gains are achieved, I have a 2425fps load using H4198 and 300gr NPs in a 22" barrel, same load does 2450fps in the 32" barrel. NFG has pushed the 300gr Hornady to near 2700fps in his 32" BC using a max load of IMR4198, quite a bit over the top for that bullet tho, Hornady doesn't recommend it be used with MVs over 2100fps or so.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,102319.msg1098277453.html#msg1098277453

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,94841.msg1098229367.html#msg1098229367

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Offline encore58

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2008, 03:49:38 PM »
Back on topic. Thanks guys for some good data.
Like we say at work....In God we trust, all others bring data.

Interesting info on the barrel length vs. fps Tim.

Too bad TC does not make a true match chamber. Wonder why?
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Offline sweetwyominghome

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2008, 08:53:02 PM »
Tighter tolerances of a match chamber can mean increased pressures, and the bottom line is that TC has admitted they do not trust any liability issues left to the hands of an inexperienced reloader.

But how many novices would start out with a tight-necked PPC or a BR cut to match tolerances???

Offline bull

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2008, 03:10:57 AM »
I too was disappointed when the Pro Hunter barrels came out that there was no 45-70 in the mix. I think a heavy 28" fluted barrel with appointments for iron sights would be great. I have a 24" std 45-70 and though it shoots well, was hping for a heavier contour. This would help tame recoil, and make for a steadier hold with iron sights. (The peep sights from an Omega work quite well.) Maybe we could pester TC enough??


Offline encore58

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2008, 05:52:11 AM »
But how many novices would start out with a tight-necked PPC or a BR cut to match tolerances???

True. I was hoping the custom shop would make them, not regular production. I see they make a match .22LR barrel for the contender. Wonder if it is a true match grade chamber?
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Offline sweetwyominghome

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Re: Encore 24" rifle barrel accuracy - 45/70
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2008, 04:08:44 PM »
Like I previously noted, custom shop barrels are the SAME as the standard factory barrels: same chambering methods, same crowns, etc.
 
The custom chop simply offers more caliber, contour, finish and length options.

TC can't cut a true custom match chamber -- or at least they won't.