Encores and WSM"s

[stumpy]

I have been a lurker around here for some time. I have been hoping a regular would address this question but have not seen much on it.
Does anyone have a explaination why the T/C Encore with a custom wsm barrel particulay the 300wsm has so much trouble with factory ammo when it seems none of the "bolt action" rifles are haveing any problems. I have seen all the stuff about this caliber being to "fat" and not suited for the Encore for "saftey" reasons but none of that explains why they have such a big problem in the accuracy department when none of the bolt rifles do. It seems all the custom Encore barrel makers say that factory ammo is "crap" and have reported many problems with it being loaded too "hot" and not consistant but I have not seen any of these reports from anyone with bolt guns. It does not make sense to me that if factory ammo has these problems then the manufacture would correct them and even if there was a problem it should be seen by someone shooting something other then an Encore. Why would these and only these rifles have such a problem with accuracy from the WSM?
Yes I have a Encore with a 300wsm barrel and I know first hand that it is the most tempermental caliber barrel I have ever seen in any rifle even my other Encore barrels and I have seen many reports from others that have exactly the same comments. The suitability of the caliber for this rifle is not the issue rather wondering why it just simply will not shoot accurate from a new and good condition frame.

Thanks

[KN]

I agree with cknight98 100%. If you over load any action, accuracy is bound to suffer.  KN

[Smiley]

I don't have WSM in Encore but my Win bolt shoots great. I have a 300 Win Mag in Encore won't shoot the FS bullets for S---. Everything else is great.  Another issue I'm finding is the loose pins on the encore frames. I've changed two out of three so far to tighten the frame it helped with flyers. I understand some think not to worry about this but that may be my FS problem, they shoot all over, won't group. <

[southern utah]

stumpy,
who made the  barrel

[stumpy]

Southern utah,

Fred @ bb made the barrel and like I said he tried to talk me out of it and was up front with all these problems that I am having.  I have not tried but feel he would take it back but I do not intend to ask him to as it was my insistance that he make it.  I have seen many post on possible "fixes" for this but my question was not intended so much in looking for a fix rather it is in trying to get a more technical understanding of why.  I would say that in response to those posted above.. thank you.. but I have a bit of a problem accepting them as the sole reason mainly because it seems this rifle will shoot very well if  you let it "cool" for a exceptionally long time (>30min) between shoots for example if you shoot  3 shoots the first is on the second out  1" the third out 4"...but  leave it set for a hour or so or come back the next day and shoot it and again the first shot is right on and so on.  The barrel is in no way hot or even warm  between these shots. But again my post goes further in that I have heard many many reports of people having problems with this caliber in the Encore and it seem to me to have somethng to do with the encore. Fred @BB and Steve@VV and others are saying its the factory ammo but if that is true why is it only a problem in the Encore. It just does not make sense to me and I am the kind of person who cannot accept failure without a understanding of why or what caused it.

thanks

[Billyboy]

I have a VVCG 270WSM for my Encore and have experienced similar results with factory ammo.  It would shoot OK, but not near what I expected from a custom barrel.  After I started reloading, things improved greatly.  I didn't really have to load down for accuracy, but fine tuning my sizing die to get the case to fit the chamber/frame combination helped a bunch.  Sizing the cases too small allows extra headspace due to the gap between the case head and frame.  Also, I have tried several different powders and H1000 and RL19 seem to work best.  Coincidentally, I think these powders, in general, offer lower pressures than some others (IMR4350, 4831).   Bullet seating depth also helped a little.  Now I am able to shoot 130 Sciroccos and 140 Part. inside .75" @100yds.

[Muddyboots]

Based upon numerous discussions I have had with TC, I am convinced chambering the WSM is a serious mistake for anyone to try. The "flex" some folks reference is called simply metal fatique. Every time you have high pressure in any firearm, you are fatiquing (stretching) the receiver which is weakening the overall structural integrity of the firearm. A bolt repeatedly fired with high pressure will fail due to the stretching (crystalization) of the steel. It may take 10 shots or 100 or 500 but it will undoubtedly fail with disastrous results. An Encore is probably no different. The frame may seem to be massive in comparison but the effects are the same. Bolt thrust related to the WSM pressure has caused TC to decide not to chamber this round, SSK won't either. It may seem glamorous to have this round in the Encore but at what cost? A standard .270 Win in a 26" bull barrel will get you pretty darn close to what a .270 WSM will do with 22" barrel so why would you want to test your luck? Safety has always been paramount in my reloading activities and there are no "I think it is OK".  It has to be perfect or the risk outweighs the potential rewards. I urge anyone thinking about a WSM in an Encore to discuss this with TC and get the story straight from them. Bottom line, if it was safe, don't you think TC would be selling barrels like soda straws?
Muddy

[rpseven]

I thought that t/c wasn't going to make the wsm's because of the pressure problems. I also thought that is why Fred at BB don't want to make them.

[southern utah]

stumpy, I have a BB 24" heavy in 300wsm. What I found is the chamber throat is to short. The Winchesters are in short actions so the bullets are seated deep into the brass( high pressure) . Take a look at  Clymer  http://www.clymertool.com/cgi-bin/reamer.cgi?cmd=CMD_START&gunID=2&reamerID=7
and you will see a diagram of the wsm. It shows a throat lenght a lot longer than is being done by BB. I had the throat recut a 100 thousands more but haven't tried it yet. Should help. I was told VVCG was adding 75 thousands to some of the barrels they did. I also think will will need to use the lighter bullets.