Author Topic: Lee factory crimp die. (Read 679 times)

DalesCarpentry · « **on:** January 17, 2008, 07:14:40 AM »

In the instructions that came with my Lee dies it says that bullets must have a crimp groove to crimp the bullet. I plan on using the Hornady 58 grain VMAX bullets and they have no crimp groove that I can see. Does this mean I should not crimp the bullet? Here is a link to the bullet I will be using. Thanks Dale http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=777702&t=11082005

Old Syko · « **Reply #1 on:** January 17, 2008, 07:41:34 AM »

I do not crimp rifle rounds to be used in bolt action or single shot firearms regardless of the existence of a cannelure or crimp groove or not. If I am using a die with an expander ball I remove the stem and ball and turn the ball down about .002" to assure good neck tension which is what you want. A crimp is intended to avoid bullet set back during cycling or recoil while in the magazine and will serve no good purpose on accuracy. Even the majority of guys who use ARs in .223 for competition no longer crimp but do pay strict attention to neck tension.

Heavy recoiling revolvers, tube fead lever guns and the like are a different story.

JerryKo · « **Reply #2 on:** January 17, 2008, 08:08:29 AM »

Dale,

If you have a LEE factory crimp die for your 243 then the bullets do NOT need a crimp groove. The die will actually form one into it with the pressure that it creates. I have had mixed results with crimping. Neck tension uniformity is important and that is supposedly what the Lee die is supposed to do. If your instructions say need a crimp groove you are not reading the Lee factory crimp die instructions, because in it is stated that one is not needed. That is the good thing about the Lee in that you can crimp to your OAL not the manufacturers.

Good luck hope this helped.

JerryKo

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #3 on:** January 17, 2008, 08:13:25 AM »

Thanks Guys. This is the set of dies I have. Dale http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=505106&t=11082005

stalker1 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 17, 2008, 08:21:56 AM »

If you go to the Lee Precision web site they have a "help video" section that you can see how almost everything is done, using Lee products. I have had great success using the factory crimp die. My groups were good before I had them for my .223 and .243 but have been great after using them!

JerryKo · « **Reply #5 on:** January 17, 2008, 08:24:09 AM »

Quote from: DALESCARPENTRY on January 17, 2008, 08:13:25 AM

Thanks Guys. This is the set of dies I have. Dale http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=505106&t=11082005

Dale,

You may be reading the instructions for the "seating and crimp" die. I believe that set you have has additional instructions for the FACTORY CRIMP DIE. I looked on the LEE site it does NOT have the instructions for viewing on the dies.

JerryKo

Slufoot · « **Reply #6 on:** January 17, 2008, 08:25:37 AM »

Hello Dale, JerryKo is right on the money. When I first read your post I thought you may have had the Lee Taper Crimp Die.

Check this out directly from Lee Precision,
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1200597182.5427=/html/catalog/dies-crimp.html

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #7 on:** January 17, 2008, 08:40:47 AM »

Quote from: JerryKo on January 17, 2008, 08:24:09 AM

Quote from: DALESCARPENTRY on January 17, 2008, 08:13:25 AM
Thanks Guys. This is the set of dies I have. Dale http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=505106&t=11082005

Dale,

You may be reading the instructions for the "seating and crimp" die. I believe that set you have has additional instructions for the FACTORY CRIMP DIE. I looked on the LEE site it does NOT have the instructions for viewing on the dies.

JerryKo

After reading that it sounds as though the factory crimp die will be a good thing.

I also for in the instructions where it say a crimp groove is not required. I do have one other question reguarding this though. If you look at the picture in the above link of the factory crimp die. In the picture the collet is at the very top of the die. My collet in down from the top about 5/8''. Just seems a little strange to me. Dale

JerryKo · « **Reply #8 on:** January 17, 2008, 09:02:08 AM »

I do believe they vary by caliber.

JerryKo

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #9 on:** January 17, 2008, 09:03:08 AM »

Oh ok thanks Dale.

JerryKo · « **Reply #10 on:** January 17, 2008, 09:11:33 AM »

I forgot, there is also upward motion of the collet, although I do not belive it is very much. Hand pressure can usually move the collet if it is out of the press. The upward motion on the tapered collet is what squeezes the four "fingers" together to form the crimp. When these four come completly together you have reached max crimp, although I'm not sure if this is ok as some jackets may be cut with this force. For example varmit thin jacketed kind used in 243's.

JerryKo

quickdtoo · « **Reply #11 on:** January 17, 2008, 09:42:27 AM »

I only use the FCD for heavy crimps in cannelures, for uncannelured bullets, I use a light crimp, just enough to make neck tension as consistent as I possibly can, afterall, one of the goals of handloading is to make all rounds as consistent as possible so they all shoot the same. Spending $9 for an FCD seems like an inexpensive way to help achieve that goal, I think at last count I had 22 FCDs, even a couple that I modifiied for chamberings Lee doesn't make. If you do a google search on the "effects of crimping on accuracy", you'll see that it can't hurt and likely will help accuracy.

Tim

Old Syko · « **Reply #12 on:** January 18, 2008, 04:00:23 AM »

I took Quick's advice and did a search as directed which netted 30,500 hits. I randomly visited a few sites as directed and the first couple, although looking official were written by individuals I'm not familiar with. Their assertions were that a crimp was the only way to go and served only to improve accuracy and they offer charts as proof of their results. The next sites i visited were that of competition shooters of various types who feel a crimp is not only unnecessary in rifle rounds but a detriment to accuracy. For the most part these guys feel that even the existence of a cannelure or groove of any kind on the bullet are a detriment.

My personal experiences agree with the latter of the two theories but from a slightly different point of view. Adding another step in the process is merely another chance to develop inconsistencies. Assuring proper neck tension during the normal loading process with the use of properly sized expander balls or better yet collet dies without a crimp avoids a problem, whereas adding a crimp fights a symptom.

I would advise trying both ways and using what works best for you.

Quick, thanks again for the search advice. Just as many times in the past you have directed me to some great info.

351 power · « **Reply #13 on:** January 18, 2008, 04:34:10 PM »

i have used both kinds of crimp and i like the fcd the best. you can see it happen. for hunting rounds it gives me confidence the bullet will stay in place no matter if it's chambered and ejected several times. or dropped. i can see target rounds have little need for this