My CCI Mini-Mags, Junk!?

[Joshua M. Smith]

Hello,

So I decided to go back to CCI Mini-Mags after my flirtation with subsonics.

While I patronize my gunstores as much as possible, they've been out of the stuff for a while - and even Dunham's hasn't had any, so I went to Walmart, an unusual practice for me.  I've heard that companies make "Walmart special" versions of their products that are not on par quality-wise with the rest of their line.

When I stepped out to sight these in, I it was between 10* and 15*.  The temperature rose a bit while I was out there.

I had passed two patches through the bore before going out, and shot twenty rounds at plinking targets to get the bore seasoned in to this ammo.

I then went prone, shooting off of a tripod, very stable.

Five rounds hit low, and I adjusted it up.

Five more rounds hit just a bit low, and I adjusted up again.

Then trouble started.  Two out of five rounds or so sounded subsonic, and hit a bit lower than where I aimed.  As well, I fired a total of 60 rounds, and I had to pause to wipe the bolt off in the middle of everything as the firing pin was sticking (common on a Romanian trainer).  But... the bolt was much, much dirtier than CCI has ever been in any rifle I've fired.  In fact, it's always been the cleanest.


Normally the cleanest shooting .22 ammo I've ever experienced, I had to wipe the bolt after 30 rounds.  This is what it looked like after I fired only 30 more rounds.  Normally the bolt is very shiny; here, it's caked with soot.

My question is this:  Has CCI followed other makers and begun to make a "Walmart special" version of their Mini-Mag ammunition?  Or, can extreme cold affect ammunition like this?  I've never fired enough of anything when it's this cold out to have experience here, as most game animals are in their dens.

I really need to know, folks.  If it's junk, I'm going to the gunstore tomorrow and buying as much CCI subsonic as I can afford.

Is it junk, or the cold?

Thanks,

Josh <><

 

[tomzuki]

How does the bolt face become dirty like that in a manual bolt action??

[Joshua M. Smith]

The elasticity of the cases were suffering.  It only does that when it gets down close to the single digits.  It's a M69 trainer and has already looser tolerances.

Headspace checks out.

Josh <><

[Joshua M. Smith]

I got an atomic clock today.  It was a Christmas gift my parents didn't want, from my dad's sister.

The thing is really really cool.  It has time (of course - though I don't know how much of the atomic signal it's really picking up out here), phases of the moon, date, and INSIDE TEMP and OUTSIDE TEMP!

It has a physical sensor outside which sends the temp in via radio.  Pretty cool.

I set it up today.

I went out to shoot the .22 some more.  It was 34* according to my new toy   I had no problems at all.  Same ol' ammo I remember.

I then noticed that my groups really opened up.  The 'scope base had come loose because I neglected to Loc Tite on the screws.  Sooo, I left the ammo outside and went to buy some Loc Tite and a light switch.

I got back, Loc Tited the screws, and let it set, all with the ammo outside.  Then I replaced the light switch, a breaker, a socket and a length of Romex that went south, and by that time it was 27* out.  I went out and popped off a few, and they fizzled, and grimed up my bolt again.

Strange thing is that the subsonics don't do either.  They shoot equally well regardless.

Problem solved I guess.  Just have to start using SS when it's below 40* or so.

Thanks all,

Josh <><

[ironglow]

 Joshua;
    Can't help you except to suggest the trouble must lie somewhere besides with the ammo..CCI is far and away my favorite ammo..because it is clean, accurate, consistent and dependable..
  Please note my earlier post in this forumr called,   " 22RF hunting rounds"...I think you will see that I am not alone in my appreciation of CCI products..

[Joshua M. Smith]

Ironglow,

I've never had any trouble either, and it's always been good to me. 

Got this today:

Mr. Smith

I am very sorry you experienced a problem with this ammo.  I discussed
the issue this morning with our Rimfire Developmental Engineer and he
would like to get the product back for testing.  I am happy to replace
the product and will include extra ammo to cover your shipping costs.
Here is some shipping information:

CCI/Speer
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
Attn: Linda Olin

Please ship using UPS ground. The US Postal Service will not carry
ammunition. Please mark the outside of the box "Cartridges, Small Arms"
and the letters ORM-D. Be sure to include your name, shipping address
and a phone number and a brief description of the issue.




Linda Olin
CCI/Speer Technical Services
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501



-----Original Message-----
From: wabashshootist@aol.com [mailto:wabashshootist@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 4:20 PM
To: cciexpert
Subject: CCI.com - Ask CCI Form

Joshua Smith
381 E 50 N
Wabash Indiana 46992

Dear Sir or Ma'am,

Since I received my first .22 years back, I've been shooting CCI
ammunition, and came to rely on Mini-Mag hollowpoints as my "bread and
butter" load for hunting small game.  I found it accurate and dependable
with boringly consistent terminal performance on small game, regardless
of weather conditions and temperature.

Imagine my surprise then, when I began getting inconsistent performance
at around 30 degrees F!  The ignition is incomplete, leaving my bore
looking like an old sewer pipe, and many of the rounds fired do not have
a supersonic crack.  Worst of all, groups were around 2.25" at 50 yards.
I find this totally unacceptable for hunting ammunition, doubly so
since, in warm weather, this rifle will keep five shots in an area the
size of a nickel with your CCI rimfire, and will shoot dime size or
better groups at the same distance with CCI or Federal subsonic
ammunition.

To make sure this wasn't the rifle, I pulled the bolt for cleaning and
inspected the 'scope mountings.  I tried again and performance was the
same.

Luckily I still had some Remington subsonic ammo on hand, and was able
to use it to sight in.  As in warm weather, it burned cleanly and shot
very tightly, giving me a dime sized group on the target spot from 50
yards.

I've never had a problem with your product in the cold, and certainly
never at 30 degrees.  I verified with two separate lot numbers,
purchased at different stores, that it was not just the lot number but
the ammunition as a whole.

The lot numbers are M05M09 and L27N25.  The former was bought at a store
called Gunner's Trading Post in Wabash Indiana, and the latter was
purchased at Walmart, same town.

I would appreciate an explanation as to why I am experiencing problems
in cold weather.  The firing pin indentation, incidentally, is deep -
there are no light strikes.  It seems to be incomplete ignition due to
the cold.

Please write back using either my standard mail, email, or both, which I
have provided you.  I await your reply.

Thank you,

Joshua M. Smith

Josh <><

[ironglow]

  That is an interesting letter Josh..keep us posted !

  BTW: There is no such thing as Walmart buying substandard in any major brand line. The Walmart special 10/22s seem to be better than the standard line. Go over to
  Rimfire central and see what owners of those rifles say .
  There are sour=grapes people out there that hate Walmart for whatever reason, and I expect they are the source for many of these "rumors".