308 Norma Mag.

[HL]

Anyone here using a 308 Norma Magnum?

 Just wondering about performance. I am going to re-chamber a 30-06 to either 308 Norma or 30-338.

[crabyx78]

Some years back i re-barreled a 700 rem 7mag to a 30-338 and
have been very satisfied with the chambering,from my experience
it's comparable to the 300wm.Got to say it's one of my favorites
use it mostly for Elk.
    Good Luck with whatever you chose.

[Siskiyou]

Brother has a .308 Norma on a factory Mark X action.  Says he preferred it over the .300 Winchester Magnum for reloading because of the longer neck on the case.  Sold his .300 Winchester.

[deltecs]

I personally think the design of the .308 Norma a much better one than the .300 Win Mag.  Balistics are so similar as to be non existent.  The longer neck length is more desirable for reloaders.  However, the .308 Norma is harder to find brass for and is nearly impossible to find factory loaded rounds on the shelf.  If you reload, my preference would be the Norma. 

[HL]

Thanks for the replies.

I figured on making the brass myself from either 7mag or 338 Win Mag brass. Most likely 338 since I don't currently have that caliber

Hopefully in 3-4 weeks I can start going at it with my new toy.

Thanks again,

HL

[nomosendero]

The 308 Norma is a great round & anyone that has this round in a good rifle is well equipped indeed. It is very accurate but there is no evidence that it will outgroup a 300WM. The old gunwriters did a heck of a job promoting the idea that the longer necks were crucial
to get the best accuracy & I like the long necks too, but the facts did not support their case very well. Both the 308 Norma & 300WM & even the 300Wea. won their share of 1,000 yard matches, but the 300WM won more than the other 2. And this trend started before the 300WM was very popular, the Wea. was but the 300WM  308 Norma were not yet, but the 300WM has elisped the other
2, on the target range & off, good marketing could cause more sales to the hunter, but performance rules on the target range. Also, look at the sniper/Mil. rifles in 300WM, if the 308Nor. had been measurably more accurate, that would be a known factor, which it isn't.

Sometimes a cartridge is known to outgroup others. A case in point is the 22PPC-USA. The 222 was king for years, but the PPC took it's spot long ago & the PPC has a shorter neck, hmmm.

If you ask Kenny Jarret or Charlie Sisk or a host of others which magnum round gives the best chance of inherent accuracy & many will mention the 300WM first & others second & the 308 Norma will not be mentioned in most cases at all. Also, if a longer neck alone would give better accuracy across the board, then why does the 300Wea. not outclass the 300WM, even when you chamber the 300Wea. without the excessive freebore?

As far as the Norma being just as fast as the 300WM, it is almost as fast with bullets of 165gr. & under, but not quite. The 300WM pulls
away a little more with 180gr & more so with the heavies. In a std. length magazine like a Ruger, they can run close, but in a long magazine rifle like a Rem 700 properly chambered, the 300WM will win every time due to simply having more capacity. My 300WM Sendero is so chambered & a 308 Norma would have trouble getting within 100fps of this rifle with equal pressures, the same way that a 300Wea. set up the same way will get 75-100fps more with 180's & above than my 300WM, just a matter of capacity.

The 308 Norma is great in it's own right & doesn't have to compare with a 300WM in velocity & they are very accurate, but to think you will buy one & it will offer a measurable difference in accuracy compared to a 300WM is unfounded. I have no desire to have a pi##@@&& contest here, but rather to look at it from a practical standpoint without unreasonable expectations for any round.
But if your goal is 3,000fps & change with the 180, you have the right cartridge & it really is a fine round.

Good luck

[deltecs]

The longer neck on the .308 Norma is not for accuracy and none was mentioned in my post.  Also, the .308 Norma has never had the popularity of American shooters or even wildcatters like the .300 Win Mag.  That is agreed it is a very fine round in its own right and doesn't need to compete with the .300 Win.  Like I said the ballistics are so close as to be almost invisible with all rounds.  The longer neck does permit handloaders a bit easier time neck sizing than those of shorter necks.  It is easy to set the shoulder back further than designed on rounds having a short neck.  Longer necks are more forgiving in die settings and I realize that with the belt any shoulder re positioning is not critical compared to rimless cases for headspace control.  The longer neck just supports the bullet a bit better by having more surface area touching the bullet itself.  And I'd like to see just what, if any, accuracy differences occur with the same shooter and same rifle configuration.  Shooting competition with one caliber doesn't impress me that it is more accurate than another. 

[beemanbeme]

I believe they are one and the same cartridge. One is "standardized" the other a wildcat. the load info inter-changes.

[Siskiyou]

I was enthused about the .308 Norma Magnum when it first came out, but it quickly died when Winchester came out with the .300 Winchester Magnum.  To be a commercial success in the United States a cartridge has to be chamber in rifles by a number of manufactures, and ammunition produced by more then one manufacture. 

When looking at reloading data for the .308 Norma and the .300 Winchester if there is an edge it goes to the .300 Winchester.  The .300 Winchester case is slightly longer and holds more powder.   

The cost of one hundred .308 Norma Mag. brass is about $150.00.  The cost of one hundred .300 Winchester Mag. brass is about $50.00 for a hundred Winchester brand.  Last fall my brother and I were in a large sporting goods store that had brass available at a competitive price.  He purchased two bags of .300 Winchester brass to resized into .308 Norma brass.  This again spells out the advantage of being a wildcatter. 

I am sure that hunters when discussing the difference between the 30-30 Winchester and the .303 Savage made many of the same arguments in 1900.
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“Norma Ammunition 308 Norma Magnum 180 Grain Oryx Protected Point Box of 20
Norma Ammunition has an excellent reputation for quality, accuracy and reliability. The same high standards that produce superior bullets and brass produce excellent loaded ammunition as well. This ammunition is new production, non-corrosive, in boxer primed, reloadable brass cases.

Norma Brass 308 Norma Magnum Box of 100
"Norma brass is renowned world-wide for very high quality and narrow dimensional tolerances. Norma puts the extra effort into quality control, effort that makes the difference between also-ran shells and world-class ammunition"
- M.L. McPherson, recognized handloading expert and noted author of Accurizing the Factory Rifle.

To produce consistently high quality brass, Norma cases are manufactured under the most exacting standards, from the raw materials to the final inspection. New, unprimed brass. Bulk brass should be full-length sized, trimmed and chamfered before loading. This is not loaded ammunition.”

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There was a time if offered a good deal on a .308 Norma I would have jumped at it.  But if offered the same deal on either or either a .308 Norma or .300 Winchester I would go for the .300 Winchester.  Year’s back I went shopping for a .300 Winchester Magnum, and left the shop with a 7MM Rem. Magnum because the shop gave me a good price and did not have the .300 Winchester in stock.   A deal on a .308 Norma Magnum would have to be very good.  Reloading for it would not be a problem but if I needed to sell it down the road the number of buyers would be limited because of the limited distribution of ammunition. 

The reloader should not inter-change the reloading data between the .308 Norma Magnum and the .300 Winchester.  There is plenty of available data for both cartridges published by Sierra, Hornaday, and Speer.  If they were to be treated the same the manufactures would combine the data as they have for the 30-30 and 30 Remington in some older publications.

[HL]

From my perspective, since a large majority of my guns are wildcats, I don't mind making the 308 Norma Brass from 338 Win Mag. Brass.

Quite a bit of $$ savings between RWS, Norma and Common Brands. I know quality of Rem., Win, Fed, etc. may not be up to Norma standards, but I probably won't notice the difference after everything is formed and preped.

Thanks again for the replies.

HL

[nomosendero]

The longer neck on the .308 Norma is not for accuracy and none was mentioned in my post.  Also, the .308 Norma has never had the popularity of American shooters or even wildcatters like the .300 Win Mag.  That is agreed it is a very fine round in its own right and doesn't need to compete with the .300 Win.  Like I said the ballistics are so close as to be almost invisible with all rounds.  The longer neck does permit handloaders a bit easier time neck sizing than those of shorter necks.  It is easy to set the shoulder back further than designed on rounds having a short neck.  Longer necks are more forgiving in die settings and I realize that with the belt any shoulder re positioning is not critical compared to rimless cases for headspace control.  The longer neck just supports the bullet a bit better by having more surface area touching the bullet itself.  And I'd like to see just what, if any, accuracy differences occur with the same shooter and same rifle configuration.  Shooting competition with one caliber doesn't impress me that it is more accurate than another. 

Mentioning accuracy was not directed to you, but some folks read the long neck comments & relate that to accuracy because of past articles from the old gun "scribes", not personal at all.

HL, good luck with your project, it is a very nice round.

[roper]

Years ago I send a rifle off to be chambered for the 30-338mag instead got a 308 Noma Mag.  I really had nothing to compare it to back then chronographs were hard to come but it shot good Nolser reloading manual # 1 had data and it was appr 100plus fps slower than the 300mag.  In the 80's I got a chronograph and had a 30-338 mag build with the 180/200gr bullets I was 3000fps with a 26" barrel and I found the 30-338mag easy to load for and it was hard to shoot a bad group.  In the 90's I had my 2nd 30-338 mag build but with a 24" and I used the same loads in both rifles and I wish all my rifles would tune loads like those two rifles.  I just neck up 7mag brass and I really never load mine to max so really can't say how fast.  I've only seen two factory Browning chamber in 308 Norma mag and a Rem factory 40x in 30-338mag.

To rechambering would depend on how many rd fired and what kind of groups getting now.  Well good luck

[SingleShotShorty]

I really like the 308 Norma mag and have a browning belgian made in that caliber that is engraved with very fancy walnut stock and one of a matched pair of Brownings the other is a 270 weatherby mag. I just don't hunt with them as they were given to me by a friend of the family that has passed and besides they are to pretty to scrtach up hunting.

[HL]

I've got everything ready to go except the gun. The action and barrel I'm having rechambered is an FN action with a Douglas Premium AG Barrel.

It was my dad's 30-06, but he hasn't used it in over 30 years and probably put less than 100 rounds through it when he did use it.

Gunsmith said everything looked very good and should come out very nice.

I'm like a little kid the day before Christmas, but I'll have to wait another week or two before the rechamber is done.

Thanks for the replys.