Author Topic: WSSM gone? (Read 10109 times)

mudstud · « **Reply #30 on:** January 30, 2008, 02:48:05 PM »

SHOOTALL,

The difference between the 25WSSM and the 25-06, is the really sweet little rifles the WSSM's have been manufactured in. The Featherweight Classics in the WSSM's are really neat little rifles. No 25-06 would be in the same category. Understand, I don't have anything against a 25-06. Shoot 'em myself. In a hunting rifle, we are comparing apples to oranges. In a varmint grade heavy barrel type outfit, it's mostly irrelevant. YMMV.

Guy Pike · « **Reply #31 on:** January 30, 2008, 03:43:15 PM »

I guess the test of the WSSM's or any "new" cartridges is the shooter's perception of the advantages offered. More speed, retained energy, inherent accuracy,ability to use shorter actions, lighter rifles, etc. Now I am 6'2" tall and weigh in at 230lbs. I can currently turn a five minute mile and do 30 push-ups on either hand. I don't find 8 or nine pound rifles to be too heavy and work alongside 20 year old kids all day long building houses. I am constantly working out to maintain my 57 year old body and it is doing o.k. I personally find such cartridges as the .308 and .45 to offer all I need. Time always tells.

nomosendero · « **Reply #32 on:** January 30, 2008, 04:40:15 PM »

Quote from: Guy Pike on January 28, 2008, 05:15:36 PM

Hey Myronman3, I guess I respect the Colonel's opinions because I come from a military family and have always been associated with men of his kind. Every male member of my family for seven generations has served in a military capacity[many career men]. I also have great respect for Generals Dayan, Sharon, et al. However God bless you and the country which allows us to have and share our opinions openly. Good shooting, Guy

Very good & I respect your restraint.

Colonel Cooper offered good info. He had some ideas that I did not agree with & some ideas that I did agree with. I used those.

mudstud · « **Reply #33 on:** January 30, 2008, 08:18:41 PM »

Guy,
I don't have a problem with 8 to 9 pound rifles myself, either. Which is not particularly relevant. I also have several grandkids coming up, and no doubt more of those to come. The dandy little WSSM sporters will be very nice for younger boys, and probably the majority of girls/women. I hear tell Kimber is chambering the 84M in 257 Roberts for 2008, so no doubt one or two of those will take up residence at my address as well!! That should be another very nice lightweight setup. How come every time I try to post a smiley, it blows my entire post?

myronman3 · « **Reply #34 on:** January 31, 2008, 02:50:14 AM »

Quote

How come every time I try to post a smiley, it blows my entire post?

disable spellcheck and you wont have that problem.

kevthebassman · « **Reply #35 on:** January 31, 2008, 03:29:30 AM »

Solution to a problem that didn't exist, if you ask me. They're going the way of the dodo, because there was not enough of a market to support them.

Guy Pike · « **Reply #36 on:** January 31, 2008, 03:42:44 AM »

Hey Nomo, I also liked Rush Limbaugh because even when he was outrageous it always made me think about whatever he was ranting about!

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #37 on:** January 31, 2008, 03:49:53 AM »

sweet little feather weight ? a whole 3/4 inch shorter than a standard feather weight ? MAYBE ! , excuse me for not getting excited .
face it ! its all marketing to sell guns , if ya can't improve the product - change the package and advertise !

mudstud · « **Reply #38 on:** January 31, 2008, 02:17:14 PM »

What a load of horse hockey, SHOOTALL! Have you ever even SEEN a Classic Featherweight in a WSSM? Much less actually hefted one? I sincerely doubt it. If you ever get the chance, heft a Kimber 84M, that is a very similar rifle in weight and OAL, to a WSSM Classic Featherweight. I suppose all those boys that are buying those dandy little 84M's are just victims of aggressive marketing as well! (-: Oh, yeah, I did scarf up a 2008 Kimber catalog this afternoon, and sure enough, Kimber will be chambering the 84M Classic Select Grade, 84M Super America, and the Montana, in the .257 Roberts. I WILL have one of those, and I'm not even a Kimber fan. Hope this doesn't interfere with my plans to get into several NEW FN Model 70's this summer, as well as all the other stuff I'm am constantly scouring the gun shops for. (-:

Have a great day, SHOOTALL. Oh, by the way, got any stainless Classic Featherweights in WSSM's you could part with, real reasonable, of course, since they are turkeys anyway! (-:

nomosendero · « **Reply #39 on:** January 31, 2008, 03:51:09 PM »

Quote from: Guy Pike on January 31, 2008, 03:42:44 AM

Hey Nomo, I also liked Rush Limbaugh because even when he was outrageous it always made me think about whatever he was ranting about!

Yep, I can relate. And no doubt he has plenty to rant about at this point.

About the wssm's, I don't have a problem with a "heavy" rifle, I have a couple of Sendero's that I hunt with alot & when I use those out West, I have carried them all day in some pretty rugged country. Weight is relative to your own size & level of conditioning, there is no certain weight of rifles for everyone, it's just not logical, so to each his own.

The wssms could be used for kids because the rifles are small & light, but for a kid I don't see the advantage of this because I would rather see a kid shoot at shorter ranges until he or she has alot of kills & a bunch of shooting under their belt, so a 250 Sav, Bob or regular 243 will suffice
for that. A Nef or a little Mod 7 is compact enough for someone getting started.

A grownup if not a Midget will have no problem with a Mod 7 type rifle. But if someone just wants one, go for it. If you know you will keep it, you don't have to worry about resale value. I would buy ALOT of ammo to store as future availablity will not be too sporty. If a reloader, I would get a set of dies & a bunch of brass.

I have zero use for one & it is easy to find a better round than any of the calibers, but if someone wants one, it's your money.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #40 on:** February 01, 2008, 05:17:21 AM »

mudstud , i can understand your disagreement but not your personal attack .
1- i like cooper rifles and Ruger
2- yes i have held the rifles you list
3- i don't care for smurf guns , i like a rifle with enough weight to feel like a gun not a toy .
4- now can you give facts not abstracts , how much shorter is a sm receiver ? do you loose 1 round cap. ?
how much lighter is the sm over standard light weights ?
5- exactly what was not true with my post ?
6- by the way we are all victims of marketing
7- if i had one you would get first chance to buy it !
8- O'yea I don't care for SS rifles much in bolt action anyway !

PartsMan · « **Reply #41 on:** February 01, 2008, 07:20:11 AM »

Quote from: mudstud on January 30, 2008, 02:48:05 PM

SHOOTALL,

The difference between the 25WSSM and the 25-06, is the really sweet little rifles the WSSM's have been manufactured in. The Featherweight Classics in the WSSM's are really neat little rifles. No 25-06 would be in the same category. Understand, I don't have anything against a 25-06. Shoot 'em myself. In a hunting rifle, we are comparing apples to oranges. In a varmint grade heavy barrel type outfit, it's mostly irrelevant. YMMV.

That's how I see it to bad we are the minority.
I guess I'll watch to see how cheap these rifles with orphaned cartridges get.

GregH · « **Reply #42 on:** February 04, 2008, 03:07:25 AM »

Quote from: PartsMan on January 21, 2008, 11:43:59 AM

I don't see any WSSM rifles listed on the Browning site anymore.
the ones that were offered with them still have the insignia above but none listed in specs.

Are they gone for good?

They probably are gone. It is a shame. I read all the folks here that badmouth their existence and performance. THey are not super cartridges. Other already in existence do as much or more, they were indeed overhyped!

But, my Featherweight in 25WSSM is a great little rifle. It wears a 2.5x8 Loupie VX-lll. It is the perfect small lightwieight deer or hog rifle. It pushes the 100's about 3150 with the 22 inch barrell. It shoots 120's at about 2925, and 75 grainers about 3600 FPS.
Nothing fantastic but it makes a handy little predator calling rifle. It shoot around 1 inch groups with select loads give or take a little. It is lighter than most rifles that do the same thing. Come on and give it a break. Groundbreaking it aint but handy it sure as heck is. Just because it does not flip a particular person trigger does not mean that someone else has found a use for it.
Lighten up guys.
Greg Harrison

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #43 on:** February 04, 2008, 07:04:58 AM »

It matches the 2506 !
and i did not bad mouth the wssm's only pointed out truths !
guess the truth hurts !
face facts Winchester was doing bad , they needed a shot in the arm and went with the WSSM , it was not a saving decision !
now i have been on the side of the buyers of WSSM myself and got burned , i have a mod. 94 in 7X30 waters , expensive ammo , one source etc. , i was repeating what i learned , have a 356 win. also ! have a friend with a 5 mm rem.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #44 on:** February 05, 2008, 02:45:37 AM »

The WSM and RSAUM cartridges never excited me in any way and after they came out I bought a .300 Win Mag instead of a WSM. The WSSMs were even less appealing. The WSSM cartridges were even less appealing to me, although I have one sitting on my desk as a novelty item.

Like many other cartridges I've chosen to ignore, I have no problem with them or the companies that brought them to market. It seems many others share my lack of enthusiasm for them, however. If sales were where they needed to be, Winchester and Remington would be adding catalog items, not removing them.

Are they gone? The .300WSM seems to have some legs and a couple others may find a niche market, but as a rule most are disappearing fast. If I had one I would stock up on brass NOW.

But I don't, and don't plan to. There is no need they could fulfill in my life that another cartridge and rifle combination couldn't fulfill just as well or better.

You guys that have them, enjoy them. You that don't and want them better hurry up and get them.

GregH · « **Reply #45 on:** February 05, 2008, 05:51:30 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on February 04, 2008, 07:04:58 AM

It matches the 2506 !
and i did not bad mouth the wssm's only pointed out truths !
guess the truth hurts !
face facts Winchester was doing bad , they needed a shot in the arm and went with the WSSM , it was not a saving decision !
now i have been on the side of the buyers of WSSM myself and got burned , i have a mod. 94 in 7X30 waters , expensive ammo , one source etc. , i was repeating what i learned , have a 356 win. also ! have a friend with a 5 mm rem.

You did in fact point out truths, I guess they hurt some but not me as I have the rifle , brass and am happy. But you are right in the WInchester did a crappy job all the way around and in the end nothing saved them at the original plant. ALso they did burn a lot of customers sort of like the 5mm fiasco.
Greg

Dee · « **Reply #46 on:** February 05, 2008, 06:22:01 AM »

On topic, does this mean we're loosing our magic rifles? What will we ever do without them. I will have to go back to killing deer with my 3030. Will they still die? $:-\$

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #47 on:** February 05, 2008, 08:03:22 AM »

Dee maybe when the "new" mod 94 comes out it will be a 30/30 wsm !
of course it will be fatter like a big bore and hold less ! and ammo will be 50 a box of 10 but it will equal the old 30/30 !
bet people will stand in line to get one !

kenscot · « **Reply #48 on:** February 06, 2008, 02:11:27 PM »

I personally believe they were a very good idea especially the 25.
Just wish they spent more time in terms of R&D to give us a trouble free product, perhaps then they would have fared better without all the negative press.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #49 on:** February 07, 2008, 01:52:36 AM »

i believe its price , you say the .25 most can't justify same performance at twice the cost . had the 25 say sent a 100 gr. bullet out at 3800 fps. then it would have been different !

flyboy · « **Reply #50 on:** February 07, 2008, 05:31:31 AM »

The Short, Fat Magnums are on their way out? IMO, they are an answer to an unasked question, and the result of some marketing wonk's sweaty dreams of "NEW and IMPROVED".

When you look at the real world figures, hardly surprising.

Like Jack O'Connor was so fond of saying, If we HAD to (Shudder) get along with just three guns, the .22 LR, 12 gauge shotgun,(pump) and the 30-06 would be all that is necessary.

I know, I know, HERESY! but he said it!

Yes, he did!

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #51 on:** February 07, 2008, 08:01:28 AM »

WE COULD !
wouldn't like to but could !

Dee · « **Reply #52 on:** February 07, 2008, 09:35:45 AM »

Jack O'Connor, Skeeter Skelton, Bart Skelton, Jeff Cooper, and on and on. They made their living giving their OPINION on guns. Why? To sell guns and gun magazines and books.
Joe Hillbilly from where-ever America usually knows as much about killing game animals as ANY of these much adored gun rag writers. My grandfather never went to school AT ALL. But he fed a Cherokee family with a lever action 22 rifle he found in the early 20s in a clay cave on the Verdigris River, Verdigris Ok. and a single shot 12 gauge. He would get a kick out of how much stock folks put in these guys, and then he would probably walk off shaking his head. He was a remarkable shot, and I miss him.
Mr. O'Connor and all the other rag writers made a handsome living pumping out BS that the common man (hunter) already knew. All that is required is a little common sense.
If a WSSRFFSEXPSVEM floats your boat great. But it ain't necessary. JMO

flyboy · « **Reply #53 on:** February 07, 2008, 09:52:15 AM »

Quote from: Dee on February 07, 2008, 09:35:45 AM

If a WSSRFFSEXPSVEM floats your boat...

A What? You left Finn Aagard, and a couple of other guys out of your rant.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #54 on:** February 07, 2008, 10:50:12 AM »

I have often thought the wssm would be a good base for wild cat rounds.

Cheese

Dee · « **Reply #55 on:** February 07, 2008, 12:32:57 PM »

Quote from: flyboy on February 07, 2008, 09:52:15 AM

Quote from: Dee on February 07, 2008, 09:35:45 AM
If a WSSRFFSEXPSVEM floats your boat...

A What? You left Finn Aagard, and a couple of other guys out of your rant.

Actually flyboy, it wasn't a rant. I harbor no resentment toward magnums of any sort, and have learned to ignore so called expert gun writers. They usually have an education in journalism, and that is about all most can claim above the country boys out there that have been hunting all their lives.
As for an interpretation of WSSRFFSEXPSVEM rifle caliber, it is a "Winchester Super Short Rim fire Fully Flexible Super Expensive Magnum". It's a new cartridge I'm developing. If I can get a couple of gun rag writers to try one, I'll make a fortune on it.

Brithunter · « **Reply #56 on:** February 07, 2008, 09:28:28 PM »

I really cannot believe that anyone is surprised that the WSSM has failed sorry but I could not see any advantage to them and had no interest at all personally. Heck I doubt I would even own any of the rifles chamber for them and it seem that there are a lot like me so the thing fell at the first fence. Despite all the sale hype not enough folks were fooled into parting with their cash pure and simple!

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #57 on:** February 08, 2008, 01:40:51 AM »

Dee now that was a mouth full !

Guy Pike · « **Reply #58 on:** February 08, 2008, 02:02:48 AM »

Nothing could describe the look on the face of a Montangard or Hmong when they got their new M-14. They knew little English except "kill VC' but they would carry a rifle as tall as they were and almost as heavy all day, all night, ad infinitum for the opportunity to use them. Kids around here are the same way and when they bring in their deer they are 10 feet tall and bullet proof. When the kid can carry the rifle, they're ready. My Opinion, stated freely, in a free country{so far} on a forum dedicated to such. I really do like GBO. Good shooting.

flyboy · « **Reply #59 on:** February 09, 2008, 02:49:08 AM »

Quote from: Dee on February 07, 2008, 12:32:57 PM

Quote from: flyboy on February 07, 2008, 09:52:15 AM
Quote from: Dee on February 07, 2008, 09:35:45 AM
As for an interpretation of WSSRFFSEXPSVEM rifle caliber, it is a "Winchester Super Short Rim fire Fully Flexible Super Expensive Magnum". It's a new cartridge I'm developing.

******************

Aahhh, Yeess! Based upon the Loudenboomer mit Spitzensparken Misthaufen Zerstorer (kurtz) developed in the Mauserwerke Ulm by none other than Heinrich Schnibble, prior to the first unpleasantness across the pond.