Author Topic: WSSM gone? (Read 10114 times)

PartsMan · « **on:** January 21, 2008, 11:43:59 AM »

I don't see any WSSM rifles listed on the Browning site anymore.
the ones that were offered with them still have the insignia above but none listed in specs.

Are they gone for good?

mudstud · « **Reply #1 on:** January 21, 2008, 03:30:20 PM »

The new FN Model 70's do not show any WSSM's becoming available this spring either. Of course, the initial selection is somewhat limited and could change down the road. But, I wouldn't hold my breath. Too bad, I think the WSSM's are kinda cool!

nomosendero · « **Reply #2 on:** January 21, 2008, 04:04:23 PM »

No surprise here at all.

Graybeard · « **Reply #3 on:** January 21, 2008, 06:45:40 PM »

No surprise to me either. I've been saying almost since the day they were introduced they would not survive and neither will many if any of the WSM or the RUMs or RSUMs. I just don't see any of them being contenders for buyers dollars ten years from now.

PartsMan · « **Reply #4 on:** January 22, 2008, 05:47:00 AM »

I think it's a shame. Really like the idea of the 25cal.
You get a rifle that carries like a 25 savage but performs like a 25-06.
Price was the obvious down side. Now availability is also.

Graybeard · « **Reply #5 on:** January 22, 2008, 06:01:10 AM »

Do you honestly believe that 1/2" or even 3/4" in the length of the action of a bolt action rilfe makes a real world difference? If so how and why please explain cuz I just quite honestly don't get it. I've owned both and if barrels are the same I can't tell which is which if you hand them both to me blindfolded.

To me all it does is reduce the magazine capacity due to the overly ample waist line of the cartridge kinda like my waist line. Fat really isn't good for either of us in my opinion.

myronman3 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 22, 2008, 07:38:00 AM »

they were more hype than anything. often, listed velocities were much higher than real velocities. in the end, just a gimmick and nothing more.

PartsMan · « **Reply #7 on:** January 22, 2008, 08:17:24 AM »

I think it was a good idea.

You gain just as much as going from long to short action or from a 700 to a model 7 Remington.
Plus all the rifles I saw had shorter barrels than a standard 25-06.

huntswithdogs · « **Reply #8 on:** January 22, 2008, 08:21:16 AM »

They were doomed from the get go. They performed no better than their longer countparts and are a bugger to reload for. If I could get my wife to sell it, I'd make ya one heck of a deal on a 243WSSM.

One other thing...When I talked to one of Brownings techs about My wifes rifle, I asked him point blank if he'd buy one. After some hemming and hawwing, he told me that he'd seen so much trouble from all the WSSMs, that he'd not take one if it was given to him. NOW, how does this strike ya?

HWD

kapac · « **Reply #9 on:** January 23, 2008, 02:30:20 PM »

I'll tell ya, I built a full custom in 243wssm and I would not trade it for nothing!! Granted nothing you could not do before with a similar round but I don't mind 3250fps with 107 smk's with no signs of pressure!!
And shoots little bug holes!!

Kapac

Lone Star · « **Reply #10 on:** January 23, 2008, 02:55:16 PM »

If 1/2" of action length made no difference to rifle buyers - there wouldn't be the plethora of ultralight rifles available today. Apparently they sell well, or there wouldn't be any. And rifle makers are in the business to sell what the public will buy - it's the American way.

Other than the ability to be chambered in short actions, the WSM and the RSAUM cartridges are of dubious value over extablished cartridges. There are a few real advantages to the short/fat design - Speer notes that the .300 WSM showed remarkably uniform performance with varmint-weight bullets, all the way down to 110s. Your .300 WinMag won't do that. But is that of any real value? It would be interesting to build a slow twist .300 WSM to shoot light bullets real fast (110s@3800 fps), but my .257 Weatherbys will do about as well downrange......

.

Countryboy · « **Reply #11 on:** January 23, 2008, 03:27:47 PM »

I have a 243 and a 300. The 243 isn't anything special compared to a standard. The size difference isn't much. The 300 is great. It weighs less than long action rifles. It kicks about the same as my heavy 30-06. And it does this with more power. But I will say I would never have bought them if they weren't a great deal. All things considered I am pleased with both. I think the 300 will stay but I doubt the 243 will.

kapac · « **Reply #12 on:** January 24, 2008, 05:16:40 AM »

Quote from: Lone Star on January 23, 2008, 02:55:16 PM

Other than the ability to be chambered in short actions, the WSM and the RSAUM cartridges are of dubious value over extablished cartridges. There are a few real advantages to the short/fat design - Speer notes that the .300 WSM showed remarkably uniform performance with varmint-weight bullets, all the way down to 110s. Your .300 WinMag won't do that.

But is that of any real value? It would be interesting to build a slow twist .300 WSM to shoot light bullets real fast (110s@3800 fps), but my .257 Weatherbys will do about as well downrange......

.

Heya Lone star, you questions about the slow twist w/300wsm has been done and these fellas are liking them so much they are selling all of there other custom rifles to have one of these being built!! The fella building them is Richard from Richards Customs wonder around that site and you can see some video clips..

The other thing about these small fat rounds that no one has mentioned is it is great idea for the AR class rifles!! And of course... "sometimes you cant teach an old dog new tricks." If everyone thought like some of the fellas above, could you imagine where we would be today??

Guy Pike · « **Reply #13 on:** January 24, 2008, 01:59:42 PM »

"New tricks" and be damned! The WSSM's were such blatant copies of the PPC family of cartridges that I'm surprised there wasn't a law suit. Colonel Cooper was convinced that the world had more than enough cartridges and with only my 53 years on this earth to go by I believe he was right. Good shooting to all.

poncaguy · « **Reply #14 on:** January 24, 2008, 03:25:23 PM »

I never cared for the WSSM's, but I love my 270WSM and 300WSM Winchester Super Shadows. $400 WalMart rifles that shoot 3/4" groups, are light rifles and the recoil is surprisingly mild.

Fred M · « **Reply #15 on:** January 25, 2008, 06:21:58 PM »

What would you guys say to a 6.5 WSM. It would be something like a
264 Win Mag. It would be housed in a Ruger#1.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #16 on:** January 25, 2008, 06:40:37 PM »

I would prefer the 6.5wsm to the 270 wsm. Today at the local gun shop, there were at least 6 Model 70 rifles in 223 wssm all in a row. Kinda dusty from sittin there. Mmmmmm,,,,, I see deep discounts ahead.

Cheese

PartsMan · « **Reply #17 on:** January 26, 2008, 03:03:51 PM »

All be darned they did skip that one didn't they.

Mckie Hollow · « **Reply #18 on:** January 26, 2008, 07:42:59 PM »

6.5 Wssm, Hmm, Didn't Rem have something like that back in '65

Lone Star · « **Reply #19 on:** January 27, 2008, 10:19:42 AM »

Quote

6.5 Wssm, Hmm, Didn't Rem have something like that back in '65

No, but they did have one similar to a 6.5 WSM in the 1960s - the 6.5 Remington Magnum. Same idea as today, put a short cartridge in a short, light action - but it didn't sell back then. The same rifle in .350 Rem Mag almost became a collectors item as it fit the bill for a short light DG rifle. The 6.5 RM has less capacity than a 6.5 WSM would, but real-world performance would be very similar.

The .404 Jeffery-based cartridges won't work in standard AR-15 sized rifles, there isn't room for all that diameter with safety and the pressures are likely too high. In an AR-10 package, perhaps.

Quote

Colonel Cooper was convinced that the world had more than enough cartridges and with only my 53 years on this earth to go by I believe he was right....

Sure, and many gunwriters of the late 19th century believed that the newfangled "white powder" was a flash in the pan and offered nothing new they needed in rifle performance.

What many forget is that without "new and improved" cartridges, rifle makers would sell fewer rifles - this is the fact of modern marketing and those who fail to grasp the concept are doomed to lose. With fewer rifles sold, there would be fewer rifle makers and the rifles would cost more. Simple economics, whether we like it or not. So the bottom line is that the WSM/WSSM/RSAUMs are good for all of us, we just don't have to buy them if we don't want to do so. That's what my 55 years on the planet have taught me anyway.

.

roper · « **Reply #20 on:** January 27, 2008, 12:31:22 PM »

I've seen cases come and go like the 225 Win etc and maybe it's the computer but I've never seen so many post so glad that some caliber they didn't like has fail.

Guy Pike · « **Reply #21 on:** January 27, 2008, 02:02:54 PM »

Lone Star only quoted part of my post so the fact that the WSSMs were blatant copies of the PPCs and truly not "new" gets lost in his post. Bullet and propellant improvement would certainly benefit all,but limited runs of unpopular rounds only sell a few rifles. As far as Colonel Cooper's opinions go it is MY opinion that the man knew his s##t and there are very few at this time who would be fit to debate any issue with him if he were still with us. "Where have you gone Joe DiMaggio? A nation turns it's lonely eyes to you."

myronman3 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 28, 2008, 08:28:38 AM »

colonel cooper. dont get me started. it is my experience that men that add their military rank before their name once they are out of the service just cant make it on their other merits. i couldnt stand the guy, his opinions sucked and the people that put him on a pedistal only proved themselves to be minons regurgatating whatever his outinflated ego spewed out. how the guy ever got such a following i will never know. i chalk it up to the fact that some people just need to follow someone, and dont always pick a good person to follow.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #23 on:** January 28, 2008, 10:15:11 AM »

the 25 wsm is no different than the 2506 . cost excepted !
a taper case extracts easier than a straights case .
5 rounds are better than 4 .
and $ 20 a box is better than $ 38 a box !
and a pet peeve is the bigger case is just plain easier to load , handle and reload ! IMHO !

Guy Pike · « **Reply #24 on:** January 28, 2008, 05:15:36 PM »

Hey Myronman3, I guess I respect the Colonel's opinions because I come from a military family and have always been associated with men of his kind. Every male member of my family for seven generations has served in a military capacity[many career men]. I also have great respect for Generals Dayan, Sharon, et al. However God bless you and the country which allows us to have and share our opinions openly. Good shooting, Guy

myronman3 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 29, 2008, 08:19:01 AM »

come from one of those familys myself. my understanding of cooper was he had no use for the enlisted man, and only had time for the commissioned officer. i know that type.
officers, from my personal experience, have their head up their own posterior. they seem to think that they know better, no matter the given situation. the REALITY is that the enlisted man is the real brains of the military. which is why the military is set up with a commanding officer, who is shadowed by the highest ranking enlisted man in that unit to keep that head from going all the way up the posterior. officers arent smarter, they dont know any better, which makes them more apt to follow orders, regardless of how stupid those orders are. i am willing to bet that untold numbers of officers have been killed by fratracide; because of their absolute stupidity.
high ranking commissioned officers rarely are given a badly needed dose of reality, which often times they so desperately need. i believe this was the case with cooper.

Guy Pike · « **Reply #26 on:** January 29, 2008, 12:14:22 PM »

When the Colonel pinned my Navy Cross on me in '72 he seemed to have a fair amount of respect for me. As a guest speaker he was awarded the privilege of pinning several of us. At the dinner following he spent most of the time conversing with us and not alot with the mucky mucks. However our active duty officers had a high percentage of ladder climbers and control freaks. We managed to find ways to "educate" them without killing them{although it was contemplated a few times!}. It ain't easy being enlisted, especially when you were officially "never there". Good shooting, Guy

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #27 on:** January 30, 2008, 02:10:38 AM »

it is truly a shame that people have to try and down grade the accomplishments of others !
what did he have to do with the wwsm ?

myronman3 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 30, 2008, 04:14:12 AM »

fair enough. i guess i will just state that i never understood why some people put him on a pedistal. there is something about the guy that just never sat right with me.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #29 on:** January 30, 2008, 04:50:14 AM »

that's fair enough !
I have read alot of his articles and felt some of the articles were good and others were aloof .
but i respect his service .