Caliber for IL deer?

[JimG]

I've got a G2 Contender pistol frame on order. Should be here in a couple weeks or so. In the meantime I'm brainstorming all of the possibilities that the Contender/Encores provide with the endless slew of barrels/stocks/grips/finishes for just about every sporting purpose known to man. That said I have no handgun for deer here in IL. I had a used D. Wesson .357Mag revolver, but it was traded off some time ago. My other couple handguns are not legal or practical for deer hunting (.45ACP and .22LR). I'm thinking about sticking with the .357Mag as the T/C barrel will be 12" or so giving a significant velocity/energy boost over a revolver. I'm aware that there are .41's, .44's and a whole host of others. I need to stick with a bottleneck case of .30 or larger with a case length of less than 1.4" or any straight walled case of .30 AND has published FACTORY ballistics tables showing at least 500 ft/lb of energy at the muzzle. Kind of eliminates most if not all wildcats. Mostly heavy woods with some open fields. I'm not an idiot and will not try to take deer at ranges that exceed my accuracy limits or the cartridges practical range in regards to energy. I don't handload so that should be taken into consideration.

[GRIMJIM]

I shoot a 44 mag and have a friend that shoots a 45 long colt that drops deer pretty well. If you should start reloading in the future the 45 lc would be a good choice.

[kennisondan]

the tried and true 30 30 is a proven deer cartridge in the contender; I have used the 35 remington on deer and it hits like a hammer.... 44 mag would do it  in a short barreled pistol past a hundred yards so the longer barrel would only be better ... I am supposing the 357 would do the trick if the foot pounds of energy are sufficient, and I would think they are... same comments on that..
I read just today that Taffin first tried the contender with a 14 inch thirty thirty and shot silhouettes at 200 yards...hand sized groups... 
I would suggest that the 45 70 would do the trick also but is not a long range round as it drops a good bit after a hundred yards.... and it will recoil more than the others... I think that and the 35 are the most recoiling and the most effective with the 30 30 right with them in performance and shooting a lighter bullet will recoil a bit less.. availability of factory ammo suggests the pistol rounds and the 3030 for most easily found...
the rifle calibers will provide more long range suitabilty than the pistol calibers but it is unclear what you consider a reasonable distance and what the shot presented will likely be... if is a hundred yards or just over... take your pick and learn to shoot it well... if you are or could be recoil sensitive the pistol calibers would be the least recoiling IMO... the 3030 to me is a great blend of power, availability and recoil in the 14 inch super 14 as it is called .. the ten inch light barrel is a recoil fireball loud noise machine, and I did not like it... the lighter barrels would handle the shorter lighter barrels and not be punishing at all compared with a sixgun...
so, in short : heck I don't know but there are a bunch of choices ..
dk

[rimfire]

My favorite is the .41.  Kicks less than the .44.  Deer I have shot HATE it...and it is a little different.  I like that to.  Kills deer out as for as I have ever killed one no matter the weapon.  Good luck with whatever you choose.

[Cheesehead]

 I need to stick with a bottleneck case of .30 or larger with a case length of less than 1.4"


I am curious, what cartridge would that be.

Cheese

[Graybeard]

SSK necks the .454 Casull case to both .429" and .40" and both are quite hot numbers that should fit within that criteria. You might want to give them a call and discuss those two with them. The one necked to .40 is a real screamer.

[S.B.]

I need to stick with a bottleneck case of .30 or larger with a case length of less than 1.4"


I am curious, what cartridge would that be.

Cheese

.300 Whisper?

[Glanceblamm]

SSK necks the .454 Casull case to both .429" and .40" and both are quite hot numbers that should fit within that criteria. You might want to give them a call and discuss those two with them. The one necked to .40 is a real screamer.

These look like prime considerations as the bottle neck does have to fall within the 1.4" lenght  in IL as said.
Like S.B., the only bottle neck that I knew of to meet the criteria was the .300 whisper before Graybeard came up with these two.

Don't rule out your straight wall cartridges as there is no restrictions on lenght or diameter other than the proof that the said caliber is capable of producing 500ft lbs of energy.
I personally use a .45 Colt (3 deer) and a .44mag (1 deer) with great results. Looks kind of skimpy but pretty good since handguns in the general season have only been legal for five years.

[JimG]

kennisondan wrote-"the tried and true 30 30 is a proven deer cartridge in the contender; I have used the 35 remington on deer"

 Can't use a 30-30, IL will not allow it for deer.

Cheese wrote- "I need to stick with a bottleneck case of .30 or larger with a case length of less than 1.4"


I am curious, what cartridge would that be.

Cheese"


I have no idea what the cartridge would be, I just have to follow the rules. IL rules are -bottleneck case of .30 or larger with a case length of less than 1.4" OR any straight walled case of .30 or larger AND has published FACTORY ballistics tables showing at least 500 ft/lb of energy at the muzzle.

I think my best  bet would be to find either a .357Mag, .41 or .44Mag 12" barrel and go from there. I have plenty of time to figure out which and to find a factory load that is accurate and appropriate.

[JimG]

I guess I also need to ask about the .45 Colt. Without handloading (as I don't reload) can one buy a factory loading in .45 Colt in a jacketed soft point or in a hard cast bullet that has the weight and velocity to exceed 500 ft lbs? If so, what brand would be recommended?

[jdinil]

I may be wrong, but I believe the .45 Long Colt has always been illegal to use in Illinois. I think the 500 ft/lb energy minimum was put into place to preclude the use of cartridges such as the .44 Special, .44-40, .45 Long Colt etc.  Although there may be some manufacturer loading to above 500 ft/lbs now, I don't think there were any factory loadings that high when the rules were originally established.

[Glanceblamm]

I guess I also need to ask about the .45 Colt. Without handloading (as I don't reload) can one buy a factory loading in .45 Colt in a jacketed soft point or in a hard cast bullet that has the weight and velocity to exceed 500 ft lbs? If so, what brand would be recommended?

You have to throw out the Cowboy loads of course, but I recon that a few different factory offerings will meet or exceed 800ft lbs. Some will do better such as the Corbon for Ruger, T\C, Colt anaconda, Dan Wesson, or Freedom arms only.
Velocitys and energy are going to be much higher out of your T/C.

Even if you decided to load up an old single action like a buntline with a barrel chopped down to 4-3/4" Hornady reached and published a load of 1,000fps with a 250gr bullet for 555 ft lbs of energy with the pressure levels reported to be very sane.
I think that 500ft lbs for the .45 Colt can easily be proved but the main point is to watch what gun you are putting them in. Most of this ammo is clearly marked.

 

[sniper2u00]

I have a friend that hunt with a Taurus R.B. in a 45 long colt. He uses a Corbond load in it and has had good results with it. I have offered to reload for him but he is happy with his Corbond loads. Here is a link to their web. page with the fps/ft.lbs listed per. load.
http://www.dakotaammo.net/products/corbon/hunter.htm#45COLT

[Paladin]

I think that I would get a 44 mag. ammo selection, the weapon will determine the load it shoots best. wild cats don't cut it, no commercial load. if a 35 is what you want I'd go for a 357 maximum would do well. It don't matter what you get(as long as it's legal for deer hunting in Ill) you can't have just one. good luck, have fun

[Hook686]

Looks to like a T/C, 12" barrel, in .357, with 158 grain Buffalo Bore, ought give on order of 1800 fps. For a 158 grain JHC bullet traveling 18800 fps, the ballistics look something like:

Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 1800 -0.5 0 0 1137 0
10 1747 0.14 0.09 0.02 1071 0.47
20 1703 0.68 0.29 0.04 1018 0.6
30 1659 1.09 0.61 0.05 966 0.8
40 1616 1.37 1.06 0.07 916 1.08
50 1573 1.51 1.65 0.09 868 1.45
60 1532 1.53 2.37 0.11 823 1.9
70 1493 1.39 3.24 0.13 782 2.44
80 1454 1.09 4.27 0.15 742 3.07
90 1416 0.64 5.46 0.17 703 3.79
100 1380 0 6.83 0.19 668 4.6


1137 ft-lbs out the barrel, 668 ft-lbs at 100 yards, does not strike me as light weight. I'd think this very viable to bring down a deer out past 100 yards.


3.    5 inch S&W model 27

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast =1398 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1380 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Speer Uni Core = 1457 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Speer Uni Core = 1543 fps

4.    6 inch Ruger GP 100

a. Item 19D/20-125gr. Speer Uni Core = 1707 fps

5.    18.5 inch Marlin 1894

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast = 1851 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1860 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Speer Uni Core = 2153 fps---- Can you believe this?!!!
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Speer Uni Core = 2298 fps---- Or this?!!!


http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#357

[Hook686]

I may be wrong, but I believe the .45 Long Colt has always been illegal to use in Illinois. I think the 500 ft/lb energy minimum was put into place to preclude the use of cartridges such as the .44 Special, .44-40, .45 Long Colt etc.  Although there may be some manufacturer loading to above 500 ft/lbs now, I don't think there were any factory loadings that high when the rules were originally established.

Yup Buffalo Bore loads a humdinger ... pricey too.:




Heavy .45 Colt +P    Printed Order Form
   

Item 3A:  325 gr. L.B.T.- L.F.N. (1325 fps / M.E. 1267 ft. lbs.)
(Big game up to 1000 lbs.)  Per Box of 50
$66.14
Order Now!  Per Box of 20
$30.86
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Item 3B: 300 gr. Speer J.F.N. (1325 fps / M.E. 1170 ft. lbs.)
(Big game up to 1000 lbs.) Per Box of 50
$66.14
Order Now!  Per Box of 20
$30.86
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Item 3C: 260 gr. J.H.P. (1450 fps / M.E. 1214 ft. lbs.)
(Big game up to 350 lbs.) Per Box of 50
$66.14
Order Now!  Per Box of 20
$30.86
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Item 3D: 300 gr. Speer J.F.N. (1200 fps / M.E. 959 ft. lbs.)
(Loaded to shorter length 1.585 inch specifically for Freedom
Arms Model 97 .45 Colt - Big game up to 800 lbs.) Per Box of 50
$66.14
Order Now!   

 

[Dan Chamberlain]

He cannot use the Whisper.  In Illinois, the cartridge "Must be available as a factory load!"  Some wardens even interpret that (incorrectly) to mean that reloads are not authorized.  It's poorly worded.  Reloads are authorized, but the cartridge must be a "factory" offering.  Wild cats are not eligible. 

I use the .45-70.  The .375 Winnie would be great, but TC doesn't make them any more.  You can find them used, or go with a custom option. 

Dan

[S.B.]

Dan Chamberlain, I was told by a CPA, some year back, not to come back to the timber with reloads but contacted DNR by email and received an answer that they are perfectly legal? Took a copy of the email up to the office of the timber where I hunt and posted it on their wall.
Please see the green hilighted area of the 2007-2008 Il. Hunting Regs below?

[RaySendero]

For those that do handload - A wildcat base on the .50 DGW case could be just the thing.  Would expect some pretty high initial costs (i.e. custom reamer, custom dies and expensive cases).  Remember, next year (or any year) the rules could change on ya such that something like this would NOT fit their legal firearm/cartridge rules - & I'll bet they will do this over the next few years!


Now, If you don't handload, a 45 Colt or 454 Casull ough to be a good choice.

[Dan Chamberlain]

SB

Can't read it.  It's too small.

Dan

[ILHunter]

300 Whisper is a factory loaded round.  45 Colt is a legal round also.
I know IDNR employees that hunt deer with both rounds.

[S.B.]

Dan Chamberlain, save it to my documents on your computer and then you can enlarge it?





 

[woodchukhntr]

.44 Mag.  Hard-hitting, a lot of factory ammunition to choose from, ammo can be reasonably priced.  If you reload there are plenty of choices too.

I often who makes the decisions on hunting regulations.  Do you think that they are hunters?  Here in New York, you can hunt in the Southern zone with pistols and shotguns in most counties, and rifles are being added to some.  In Shotgun & pistol-only counties you find yourself in a situation where it is legal to shoot a .30-06 Encore 15" barreled pistol, but not a 16" barreled .30-30 rifle.  If bullet range is the criteria, which one do you think would have the greatest range?

[kevthebassman]

Move out of the People's Republic of Illinois.  That's your best bet.  Come to the land of freedom right across the Mississippi, where you don't have to contend with the Chicago machine running the entire state, then you can use whatever centerfire cartridge you want during deer season.

[SHOOTALL]

30/30 is fine but 7x30 waters is better IMHO !
a short case for what ever reason -357 or 30 Herett would work Nice as would any BC cartridge or IHMSA line of cartridges as all three were made for use in Contenders !

[S.B.]

With case length restrictions of 1.4" most of the ones listed in recent posts won't cut it?

[SHOOTALL]

the Herett should !

[S.B.]

Must be a factory loading with 500ftlbs of energy?

[SHOOTALL]

400 cor bond !
7.62X39 !

[SHOOTALL]

7BR if you could live with a bullet smaller than a 30 cal.