Author Topic: Caliber for IL deer? (Read 8255 times)

Dan Chamberlain · « **Reply #30 on:** February 07, 2008, 12:53:30 PM »

Gotta be .30 or larger, no bottlenecks longer than 1.4 inches. Any load must be available as a factory offering. Straight walled cases are the best bet. .444 or .45-70 or .375 Winnie offer the best performance. But you can't flinch!

Dan

SingleShotShorty · « **Reply #31 on:** February 15, 2008, 02:56:31 PM »

I really like 308 Winchester for deer hunting, here is a pic of my Encore

S.B. · « **Reply #32 on:** February 15, 2008, 03:02:25 PM »

SSS, won't work for Illinois?

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #33 on:** February 15, 2008, 03:37:31 PM »

300 whisper and 30Bellm are the only 2 bottle necks that meet Illinois reg . Been there done that had a whisper for a couple of yrs but have been using Taurus 6".357mag the last couple of yr with no problem.Kurt

S.B. · « **Reply #34 on:** February 15, 2008, 03:44:41 PM »

Curious, does the 30Bellm have a factory loading and if so who markets them?

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #35 on:** February 15, 2008, 03:58:30 PM »

When I went thru this same thing yrs ago I went with the whisper but the 30Bellem had published load data and I believe it was available from Bellem back then today you would probably have to contact him to find it for sure. The regulation used to say published load data, 1.4 inches or less and .30 cal or larger. That was when the season was hand gun only does only and even if it was straight wall no more 1.4 now that season is open for all legal Illinois guns and no limit on straight wall cartridge as long as it's a hand gun. Kurt

S.B. · « **Reply #36 on:** February 15, 2008, 04:18:35 PM »

But today, they say a load that is available from the factory or something similar.

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #37 on:** February 15, 2008, 06:23:27 PM »

If I was looking at doing it again at this time the only thing that I would trust on this regulation would be to go to a Conservation Officer and have him show you in his big book of laws and regulations just exactly what the big book says on it. One of the problems here in Illinois is while they are writing you a ticket and we are trying to explain that we read it in the hand book they are trying to explain that the handbook is just a general guideline not actually the law. I had done just that when I checked into it yrs ago and what the big book said was published load data. Now that may have changed in recent years but I would want to know for sure.The bellem was to much cash so I went with the encore in 300 whisper just a word of warning if you choose the TC barrel over the SSK whisper you will have a hard time trying to shoot the 220gr subsonic as the 1-10 twist won't stabilize the bullet .but the 125 gr and the 150gr both killed deer for me Kurt

David Carey · « **Reply #38 on:** February 15, 2008, 10:26:27 PM »

Get a 445 Supermag barrel for your contender, straight wall 44cal 1.610" length cartridge.

Dave

Dan Chamberlain · « **Reply #39 on:** February 17, 2008, 10:49:20 AM »

What is hilarious are the number of replies that offer advice while evidently not paying any attention to the parameters Illinois hunters are bound by. Bottle neck cartridges have to have a case length no longer than 1.4 inches, .30 caliber or larger and be available as a factory load with published ballistics!

Straight walled cartridges are not limited as to length, but again, they must be available as a factory load with published ballistics!

I know the .445 Supermag is a real cartridge, but it is not currently offered in a factory load that I can find. Not that it matters. If one is going to fire a cartridge with that performance, there really is no reason not to go with the already well available .45-70 which can be tailored for pretty much every recoil level one would want to experience.

If one sticks to the 300 grain bullet for Illinois deer, you can load it to 1500 fps for a reasonably easy recoiling load similar to the .454 Casull, or you can push it to 1700 or 1800 fps for all the recoil fun your little heart desires.

It shades the .44 Mag considerable margin, not that anyone needs anything greater than the .44 mag for Illinois deer.

But, none of the factory bottle neck cartridges listed to date, fall within the parameters mentioned.

Dan

Cheesehead · « **Reply #40 on:** February 17, 2008, 11:28:34 AM »

But, none of the factory bottle neck cartridges listed to date, fall within the parameters mentioned.

This law is difficult for me to understand.

Cheese

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #41 on:** February 17, 2008, 11:42:20 AM »

Cheesehead welcome to the our world of the Illinois DNR. Dan you are very right as I posted in my first post the only 2 that will make the reg in Illinois are the 300 Whisper and the 30Bellem. And now that that season has gone to any legal firearm for IL I carry my Ultra Slug hunter 20ga and the .357 on my hip same as regular gun season just gotta shoot does only. Kurt

Dan Chamberlain · « **Reply #42 on:** February 17, 2008, 01:42:01 PM »

Phat

Do either of those cartridges have a "factory" loading? Aren't they wildcats?

Cheeshead

The day I left Wisconsin...was the day I sold my soul! When I was a boy growing up in the North country, I hated every Illinois license plate I saw! Now...I have'm on my car!

Thank God my parents are dead...or they would have disowned me!

Dan

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #43 on:** February 17, 2008, 01:57:29 PM »

"When I went thru this same thing yrs ago I went with the whisper but the 30Bellem had published load data and I believe it was available from Bellem back then, today you would probably have to contact him to find it for sure. The regulation used to say published load data, 1.4 inches or less and .30 cal or larger. That was when the season was hand gun only does only and even if it was straight wall no more 1.4 now that season is open for all legal Illinois guns and no limit on straight wall cartridge as long as it's a hand gun". Corbon makes the whisper ammo and Bellem's info is published but I don't know where as his barrels were way to expensive to pursue.Kurt

David Carey · « **Reply #44 on:** February 17, 2008, 02:11:05 PM »

Quote from: Dan Chamberlain on February 17, 2008, 10:49:20 AM

I know the .445 Supermag is a real cartridge, but it is not currently offered in a factory load that I can find.

Dan

You can purchase loaded ammunition from the CZ/Dan Wesson Factory the maker of the gun.

Is this not what the regulation reads.

"available as a factory load with the published ballistic tables of the manufacturer showing a capability of at least 500 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle"
Is that what the regulation really reads 500ft pounds of energy at the muzzle??
Here in WA it was 500 ft pounds at 100 yards for deer and 750 fp at 100 yards for Elk.

and I apologize in advance if I am wrong I just like handgun hunting and wish all states would write the regulations so we can read it.

Dave

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #45 on:** February 18, 2008, 06:06:13 AM »

Dave here in IL the only thing you can really go by is what it says in the CO large reg book in his vehicle any thing other than that and all bets are off. I really don't know what that book says anymore as I am going from when I was looking at it years ago. I am not sure where the ballistics info has to be published I suppose some gov agency. So the gov gets it's cut!! I am with you on coming up with regs the layman can understand but that would be a nightmare for the states to come togeather on what they should be as would lots of hunters cause some of the regs are hunter friendly, some make sense, some are plain stupid but for states to give up their rights to say goes clear back to the cival war. I am unfamiliar with the .445 super mag is it straight walled? If it is it may not need the published load data as I said "The Big Book" is the only way to know for sure. Kurt

S.B. · « **Reply #46 on:** February 18, 2008, 06:35:33 AM »

Kurt, or maybe it's just what's in Blagojevich's mind at the time of printing?

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #47 on:** February 18, 2008, 08:46:42 AM »

Does he have a mind? Kurt

David Carey · « **Reply #48 on:** February 18, 2008, 04:23:18 PM »

Is that what the regulation really reads "500ft pounds of energy at the muzzle"?

Dave

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #49 on:** February 18, 2008, 06:27:53 PM »

S.B. · « **Reply #50 on:** February 19, 2008, 02:22:48 AM »

I posted a current copy of the Illinois deer hunting regs. up higher in the thread, small so you have to save it to your document files and enlarge it there, to save bandwidth?

Glanceblamm · « **Reply #51 on:** February 19, 2008, 04:45:45 AM »

Quote from: S.B. on February 19, 2008, 02:22:48 AM

I posted a current copy of the Illinois deer hunting regs. up higher in the thread, small so you have to save it to your document files and enlarge it there, to save bandwidth?

S.B.
What you posted was pretty much a .jpg or perhaps even a .bmp but not a document.
This could be inserted into a word processing program and zoomed to 200x or so to be able to read but it would just display a few lines at a time that may still be blurry.
We could purchase the PDF writer program but it is kind of expensive when there is powder and ball to buy!. I don't know where you could find a host site to post a link to a .doc that you have created other than the PDF.

S.B. · « **Reply #52 on:** February 19, 2008, 06:09:48 AM »

Let's try this, go to this site, click on the link and scroll down to page 11?

http://www.dnr.state.il.us/admin/systems/digest/

Glanceblamm · « **Reply #53 on:** February 22, 2008, 04:02:44 AM »

S.B.
What I really want to do is to take the little 3-7/8" .45 cal birds head Vaquero hunting. No matter how many how many times that I measure this barrel it will just not grow to the required 4"

If I am only short by .250 can this number be rounded to the high side? Perhaps I can figure in the cylinder throat?

I might have to ask someone on this as the gun is certainly up to the task.

Paladin · « **Reply #54 on:** February 22, 2008, 06:58:00 PM »

.250=loose the gun,loose the truck and go directly to jail. not worth the chance for me. Good Luck

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #55 on:** February 23, 2008, 08:01:32 AM »

BUFFLO BORE has 445 SM ammo if factory ammo is needed !

S.B. · « **Reply #56 on:** February 23, 2008, 03:23:29 PM »

Once again, the reg states "Factory loaded ammunition" I don't know if the state considers Buffalo Bore as a factory and here in lies one of handgun Illinois hunters problems? We can hash this over till the cows come home but, Conservation Police Officers are the only ones to make these decisions! As handgun hunters here in Illinois, we walk on egg shells if we want to hunt with handguns.
A couple of years back when a CPO told me I couldn't hunt with hand loaded ammo, I chose to not go back to the timber till I had the letter from the DNR stating that hand loaded ammo could be used or I could of forfeited my pickup, gun, and hunting rights, it get monetarily expensive here in Illinois to challenge the DNR.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #57 on:** February 24, 2008, 05:51:07 AM »

keep in mind that to produce and sell loaded ammo Bufflow Bore has to be lic. as a manf. by the ATF
just because they ain't one of the big 3 dosent make them illegal !
If DNR took your personal property under FALSE ARREST i do believe you would have a FEDERAL case and could sue for damages .
It could be interesting to have the letter but wait to show the judge ! Ignorance of the law is no defence applies to enforcement officers also !

S.B. · « **Reply #58 on:** February 24, 2008, 07:20:19 AM »

You certainly did a good job of changing the intent of my post, as usual?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #59 on:** February 24, 2008, 07:30:44 AM »

SORRY !
Only ansewered your post !
What was your intent ? A bottle neck round of less than 1.4 inch case length ?
357 sig , 400 cor-bon are two that come to mind ! but they ain't 30 cal. hey how bout a 30 Luger ?
Oh well I tried hope you find your magic round ! GOOD LUCK !