Action Pics

[PartsMan]

I have been looking at buying a new bolt rifle and every manufacturer claims there action is strongest or most accurate.
Could you guys post any pics you have of your action out of it's stock so I can see what they are made of?
I know this isn't a very scientific comparison but I want to see.

[Graybeard]

Hint: All bolt actions are made of steel.  Well OK except those made of titanium. 

[beemanbeme]

What kind of cannon are you planning on buying??  I think you know where my allegence lies but I daresay if you buy from one of the main companies, ie, Rem/Win/Rug?Wea/Sav/Etc, strength wouldn't really be a factor.  It really boils down to estetics.  Which one you think looks the best. I don't know how to post pictures but Rem claims to be the strongest because the bolt encases the case head which is inside of the barrel which is inside of the receiver, ie: "three rings of steel". 

[kyelkhunter3006]

I've read that Weatherby proofs Mark V actions with 200,000 PSI loads,  WAY more pressure that I think you could produce.     I also read an article that Savage proofs with 120,000 PSI loads.  Honestly, any modern bolt action is going to be strong enough.  A better question is how much do you want to spend on it, and how much do you care about the looks?  If looks are the last thing you're worried about, it's hard to be the value of a Savage/Stevens or a Mossberg ATR.  If you want a good looking gun for a good value, then you are solidly in Remington country, since it's hard to find a decently priced Winchester now.  There's also the Weatherby Vanguard/Howa 1500 for the same or less than most of the Remington models.  I think that Tikka's are fine too, except for the synthetic stocked one, it's just nasty to look at.

[PartsMan]

I was really just hoping for some receiver pics.

PartsMan.

[kyelkhunter3006]

Probably the best place to look at the different guns would be www.gunbroker.com, or www.auctionarms.com.  Then you wouldn't have to listen to us.     I don't know if you'd get many pics of just the actions though.  Type barreled action into the search and see what you come up with.  I usually find more barreled actions on auctionarms.

[Doesniper]

Look at benchrest .com under actions. Benchrest actions are going to be the strongest and most accurate. There are a few custom action companies the make CNC actions that will drop in a Rem. stock, and are already squared and trued. Well worth the money.

[Brithunter]

Well the strongest action I can think of is an old one which went out of production in 1916. It's the Ross M10 and in .280 Ross was prooved to 28 Tons. By comparison .270 Winchester is prooved to 19 tons. Eley Bros introduced a .280 Nitro which was a down loaded .280 Ross for those who wished the cartridge chambered in Mauser actions and the original Ross loading prooved to much for the Mauser 98 in the long term.

  Otherwise it could be something like the Mauser M96 Slide Bolt with it's 16 bolt lugs that Mauser claimed to be the strongest?

[Mckie Hollow]

Graybeard - I'm interested in Who is making Titanium Bolt Actions. Meaning The receiver and the Bolt. I know of only one that was made.
I believe that The Browning & Rem Ti's have a Titanium receiver, but the bolts are steel. Am I correct with This?

[NONYA]

I like the looks of the Tikkas but I doubt if anything made is superior to the Rem mdl 700 long action.

[PartsMan]

Graybeard - I'm interested in Who is making Titanium Bolt Actions. Meaning The receiver and the Bolt. I know of only one that was made.
I believe that The Browning & Rem Ti's have a Titanium receiver, but the bolts are steel. Am I correct with This?

Remington has one.
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_700/model_700_alaskan_Ti.asp

[Mckie Hollow]

Partsman - That was My Question. The Receiver is Titanium, But I don't believe that the Bolt is. If it was, The Rifle would probably much pricier.

[Graybeard]

Dunno if the bolts are Ti as well it's really not something I've done that much research on. If light weight is what you really want there are easier and cheaper ways to get there. Most of the weight is really in the barrel and you can get the carbon fiber barrels with a thin steel liner and have a lighter rifle than one made of all Ti and at a lower cost.

My Magnum Research 1722 in .22LR has the Hogue overmoulded stock and carbon fiber barrel and weights less than the old Remington Nylon 66 did I think. The barrel however is a full bull.

[Mckie Hollow]

I have seen the  Browning & Rem Ti's when They first came out, and they were not a Titanium Bolt. The difference is very noticeable. A bolt made of Titanium is very light, Like Your holding a piece of Kevlar. It would be that light. It is very hard to machine and therefore very expensive to make. I don't believe that a barrel has been made of Titanium for a long Gun, it is just too hard to work with. Titanium on Titanium requires to be coated, if not, the friction is about as good as 120 grit on 120 grit. If I had a set of scales, I would weigh My Mauser Ti Bolt and give the weight, it is somewhere around 10ozs..

[Siskiyou]

Well the strongest action I can think of is an old one which went out of production in 1916. It's the Ross M10 and in .280 Ross was prooved to 28 Tons. By comparison .270 Winchester is prooved to 19 tons. Eley Bros introduced a .280 Nitro which was a down loaded .280 Ross for those who wished the cartridge chambered in Mauser actions and the original Ross loading prooved to much for the Mauser 98 in the long term.

  Otherwise it could be something like the Mauser M96 Slide Bolt with it's 16 bolt lugs that Mauser claimed to be the strongest?

You brought up an interesting term, TONS.    I came across the term when doing research on the No.4 and proofing.

It is my assumption that in this context it is a long ton-force equals 2,240 pounds? Is this the correct definition?  As I recall (maybe incorrect memory) my No. 4 is stamped 18 tons, which puts it below the SAAMI 45,000 C.U.P., used for the British .303 in the U.S.  Is comparing TONS and C.U.P. an apples and orange proposition like comparing c.u.p. and p.s.i. ?

[ms]

I think most custom rifles are build with Remington actions.

[Mckie Hollow]

Ive been told that Rem Actions are proof tested @ 90,000 PSI.. That should handle anything that I would want to load.

[jhm]

I have a Rem. 700 TI rifle barrel vary thin Stainless, Bolt spiral twist Stainless Action Titanium in 7mm-08 I like it, is it for everyone I would say No I believe you can do just as well with a regular 700 in Stainless for 1/2 the cost or less.   JIM

[PartsMan]

 
Thanks for all the pics guys.

[NONYA]

You have the internet USE IT

[Cement Man]

Parts Man,
You probably aren't going to learn as much as you'd like to by looking at photos of actions.  Here is a good reference work on bolt action rifles, for a nominal cost that should give you some real knowledge and points of reference.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=120294

As far as actions go, there are enough differences to satisfy just about anybody and the ultimate truth or best choice depends upon how well you can define what YOU expect from a rifle.  The strongest, beefiest, most accurate this or that on a bench isn't a good candidate for a mountain gun, etc.  A rifle in total is really a system of sub-functions that all have to agree with your preferred use (different feeds, extractors, triggers, magazines, safeties, weight, etc.)and personal tastes and opinions.

I think we're lucky to have so many choices and there are a lot of good ones.

[PartsMan]

I have looked on the Internet quite a bit.
I have been able to find Remington, Savage, and Mauser actions all over.
Also a couple of the old model 70 and some custom jobs I'll never afford.
I have also read a lot and found some nice descriptions.
The wife says I am a visual learner so they are hard to follow.

I would just like to know what the different recoil lugs bedding areas look like on some of the others.
There are many options out there and I don't want to spent a few hundred $ on something I don't like.

Thought some of you guys may have snapped a photo of your rifle out of the stock and could share it with me.
Sorry if I stepped on any toes.

[kyelkhunter3006]

Remington 700, Savage/Stevens, Kimber, Mossberg ATR, the new Marlin, Tikka, are all tubular actions, literally made out of a tube of steel.  All of them, (except the Tikka) have a recoil lub sandwiched between the barrel and the action.  Mausers, Ruger, Winchester, Howa are all machined, investment cast, or forged out of a single block of steel.  The all have integral recoil lugs with a flat bedding surface directly behind the lug.  To be honest, all actions resemble either the Remington (tube) or the Wnchester (flat) behind the lug.  Tikka T3's are a tubular action, but the recoil lug is integrated into the stock and fits into a mortise in the action.  The Remington 710 is the same way. 

Any of the actions will offer all of the practical strength and accuracy you'll ever need.  Remington 700's are popular for custom work because there is literally a TON of affordable aftermarket parts for them, and because they are tubular, they're a lot easier to true up on a lathe.  I honestly couldn't care less what the action inside the stock looks like as long as the gun performs.  Find a rifle that has a good rep (and they all do to be truthful, regardless of what you read) that pleases you visually and you're probably going to end up with a gun that will shoot great groups (after finding the best load for it) and last your lifetime.

[PartsMan]

kyelkhunter3006,

That is a very clear and help full description.
Thank you.

Where does the A-bolt fit in?

[Mckie Hollow]

People who own A Bolts - Love Em. I happen to be one of those People, of course, I may even, someday ,own a Ruger.
Partsman - A Savage, in the right Caliber,@ the right Price, can be worth more to One, Than a Dakota, In the wrong Caliber, @ The Reg. Price.
I'll quote Finn Aaguard- "Make Mine Mauser"!!

[kyelkhunter3006]

Oops, I forgot the A-Bolt.  It's a a tube type receiver too, with the recoil lug between the barrel and action.  I personally like the A-Bolt and it's features very much, I've just never broken down and bought one yet.     I've read several posts under the African Hunting section by JJHack about horror stories concerning the A-Bolt and problems in the field.  Take everything you read with a grain of salt....  People that have A-Bolts hardly ever have any bad words about them.

As long as you want a sporter weight gun, for your first experience with a bolt action centerfire, I'd go one of two ways.  Get a Stevens 200 or a Mossberg ATR (maybe the new Marlin too, I like it the best, but I haven't seen any prices yet) if you're looking for a brand new gun.  Great guns, very accurate, and they go for well under $300 in most areas. 

Any Mausers are are not new production (like the Dalys or Remington 798), unless they have one heck of a nice piece of wood on them, aren't worth more than a few hundred bucks IMHO, say topping at $400 or so.  One trap that you shouldn't fall into is the Springfield 1903 sporters that you see around sometimes.  Unless it actually says Griffin & Howe, Sedgely (these are old makers) etc, on the gun, they are just old military actions in a standard sporter stock that people are trying to sell for outrageous sums of money.  Pass on them, there are lots of better deals to be found.  Unless you are into old military sporters, why spend $500 or more on a gun that is 100 years old when you can get a new one made out of modern steel for the same price?  Steel doesn't get stronger with age.

Now what you should do is hit the gunshops, flea markets, gunshows, etc.  Big retailers like Gander Mtn, Bass Pro, and especially Cabela's if there is one near you will also have many different models on hand too.  Handle as many different ones as you can.  Work the bolts, just play with them in general.  You'll find that there are somethings that you'll like, some things you hate, about each one.  When you find one that fits just right, feels just right, and in the you like the controls of the rifle, that's the one you buy.

[mcwoodduck]

I know I 'm going to start something by writing this but ... here goes.
I just went through what your going through with a friend of mine who wanted to get a new rifle last year.
As far as I'm concerned the rifle is a tool and for the most part all of the rifles your looking at are going to work for deer hunting.
I would look at what features you want in the rifle.  Caliber, weight, stock material, action material, barrel length, action length, Iron sights?, what kind of safety do you want.  On the rifle, on the tang or on the bolt, removable mag, blind mag or hinged plate, and price.  Don't for get any optics you may want to mount.  If you want to mount a scout scope is there a place to mount a rail or does it come with one.
Make a chart and the one that has the most X's in it's column is the one.  Your said you learn by seeing so make it a visual thing.  My friend wanted a Sako 75 stainless but ended up with a Remington 700 XCR because of his budget and did not want to wait half a year to mount the scope on it.  Also don't spend everything on the rifle and scope remember some of the other items you may want to have as well like sling, soft case, scope mounts, scope covers, and Ammo.  You may want to buy several types to see what shoots best.
As far as the strongest action.  I remember a guy asking that same question in the late 60's or early 70's and and wrote his results in an article I read.  He started by mounting a 30-06 barrel on any action he could find and loading a way over pressure round to get the action to fail.
The Japanese Arasaka action was the strongest action in his test.  The action did not fail it just threw the barrel off.  Don't know.
I do own a Win M70 classic, Ruger M77, Rem 700's, Enfield, Mauser, and an Arasaka, actions all in sporting rifles.
I simply decide on a caliber an look in the used racks at the local shops for one that fist my wallet.  Most used rifles were never really used and are a good buy.   I know my next rifle will be a CZ.  I like the single set trigger and the small frame of the 527.  It's going to be another 223. ( especially if the president gives us back $2K of our money in a tax refund per household)  
All of the CZ 550's have the same size frame and it's a long, long action.  There is no advantage to getting a .308 based round other than a detachable mag.  

[Brithunter]

Well the strongest action I can think of is an old one which went out of production in 1916. It's the Ross M10 and in .280 Ross was prooved to 28 Tons. By comparison .270 Winchester is prooved to 19 tons. Eley Bros introduced a .280 Nitro which was a down loaded .280 Ross for those who wished the cartridge chambered in Mauser actions and the original Ross loading prooved to much for the Mauser 98 in the long term.

  Otherwise it could be something like the Mauser M96 Slide Bolt with it's 16 bolt lugs that Mauser claimed to be the strongest?

You brought up an interesting term, TONS.    I came across the term when doing research on the No.4 and proofing.

It is my assumption that in this context it is a long ton-force equals 2,240 pounds? Is this the correct definition?  As I recall (maybe incorrect memory) my No. 4 is stamped 18 tons, which puts it below the SAAMI 45,000 C.U.P., used for the British .303 in the U.S.  Is comparing TONS and C.U.P. an apples and orange proposition like comparing c.u.p. and p.s.i. ?

   Just how SAAMI came up with their pressures for any foreign cartridges seems to be a mystery. Seeing as how the service and proof pressures for the .303 British cartridge were established in 1892. Now 1 ton is 2240lbs and the pressure is measured per square inch denoted by the square stamped on the proof mark and the " symbol. Of course they have now changed the proof pressure measurement now to Kgs to be more universal with the other CIP members. The old proof pressure for the 7.62mm Nato cartridge was also 19 Tons but this has been revised to equal 20 Tons due to handloading "Serious" target shooters who overloaded the cartridge so as to maintain supersonic bullet speeds at 1200 yards with the 155 grain bullet.

     Strange that the proof of the 7.62mm Nato is the same as the 270 Winchester which I always thought as a high pressure round unlike the 7.62mm Nato.

[PartsMan]

From what I have looked at I like the idea of a flat bottom reciever.
The Howa\Vanguard seems to be the one that has that and push feed.
I think I would prefer a two position safety but I do like the location.


Compared to the Remington it just looks stronger and more stable.

[NONYA]

The design of the stock and how it mates with the action determines how stable/rigid its going to be.