long range encore pistol caliber 500yds+

[KW]

OK I fell into a great deal on an encore pistol frame and got it. Now what? is the question I asked myself. So I got a 223 ss encore pistol barrel for it for varmints. Now I want a fun 500+ yard  pistol caliber. This will only be shot at paper at this distance, maybe try a hand into some long range contests. I am stumped on either the 308 win. or the 7mm-08. I would appreciate any input from those of more experience then me. I would like to try and stay with a caliber that is reasonably easy to get, but if there is one that is perfect then I'm game. Thanks for the help.

[Rog]

I am certainly no expert at the long range stuff.  In fact, I haven't even done any of it yet, but plan to dabble in it.

I picked the 280AI for my 'potential' long range Encore handgun rig.  I was really eyeballing the 6.5-284 as well.  Still plan on getting that one for long range.

However, I think my 280AI will work for most of the long range stuff I'd be doing.  The 6.5-284 would probably be a bit better in terms of down range ballistics.

[Cossack2]

Several prospects that come to mind along with 7/08 and 308: 260 at the low end, 7mm SUAM or WSM in between and 300 short mags at the top end.
What you choose should be tempered with how you can handle recoil. I shoot the 284 and 6/284. Great cartridges but not best choice for Encore because of rebated rim. Extraction becomes a bit less certain esp if load is a tad hot. Also get some case scratching from extractor sliding over fat case. 

[WayneS]

I would suggest you research the American Rifleman, as there was an article many years ago about a group of pistolaros in NV or in that area that shoot 500 yd. matches with 15" contenders. Seams their rounds were based on either 375 Win. or 444 Marlin.
What ever you chose I'ld suggest adding a J.P.muzzle break.

[kennisondan]

the wildcat loads will be a handload proposition, it appears.
in factory it would be hard to beat the 308 or 30 06 .... at the longer ranges 308 shooters like heavier bullets like 180 or more... there are a lot of matches won at 600 yards with the 308.. it bucks the wind well too in the heavy weights... it is an accurate cartridge...
if handloading is in the picture after all... then the possiblities expand...
precision long range hunting may be a site you could glean a little info from .. and sniper's hide too.
dk

[Lone Star]

If you want to be semi-serious at 500 yards, your best bet is a custom barrel.  This is probably more important than the cartridge you choose, as outstanding long range performance can be had with any of the .308-based cartridges (.243, .260, 7-08, .308).  Stocks will also be very important, you need a grip that fits your hand well and a forend that rides the bags well, usually with a large, flat bottom.  A custom rest works wonders too.  As far as a scope is concerned, the more X the better at 500 yards, for targets you can use a standard rifle scope and aim through the small exit pupil with your head 10"+ back from the eyepiece....or get a custom scope.

Bower made a series of cartridges especially for long range - with the Contender - and was quite successful if you read the press releases.  Some were based on the .307 WCF.   With the Encore, wildcats are just not needed as the .308 class works great.  You will find that recoil effects your long range groups even more with a handgun than with a rifle, so my vote would be either the .243 with a fast twist rate or the .260.   They will shoot with any cartridge you care to name, probably better than the darling of the LR crowd, the 6.5x284.  The latter has too much case capacity for a 15" barrel - IMO anyway.

Or you could just get a factory barrel and bang away, you'll likely have just as much fun.   


.

[rocky_taco]

I'd probably go .243 or 260.  If you go .243, try the 117 grain bullets. 

[KW]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I was a little concerned about the recoil issue and that was why I was looking at the 7mm 08 and 308. the 243 I was playing with but wasn't sure it it could go that far. Interesting. It seems that the 7mm has a better B.C. than the 308 bullet of the same weight. Should this concern me or are they both just as accurate at that range? Reason I ask is that I am set up for reloading 308 already. Thanks again.

[WayneS]

I don't think you will be able to tell the difference between a 7-08 and a 308 out of a 15" pistol, again, the JP break is a real recoil tamer, I have one on a 14" 7-R {7 mm X 30-30} and I shoot it standing with a 24X rifle scope in IHMSA match's. The people to either side of me, have to be warned, but the pistol will move forward when fired.

[xphunter]

OK I fell into a great deal on an encore pistol frame and got it. Now what? is the question I asked myself. So I got a 223 ss encore pistol barrel for it for varmints. Now I want a fun 500+ yard  pistol caliber. This will only be shot at paper at this distance, maybe try a hand into some long range contests. I am stumped on either the 308 win. or the 7mm-08. I would appreciate any input from those of more experience then me. I would like to try and stay with a caliber that is reasonably easy to get, but if there is one that is perfect then I'm game. Thanks for the help.

kw,
How far past 500 yards are interested in?
Will this new barrel ever be used for hunting deer sized critters or bigger?

[onesonek]

I would probably go with  .243 also. Shoot the longest/heaviest it will stabilize(if factory barrel) Hopefully the 105-107's will work. If not, 95 gr. Bergers will do good at that range and then some.
6.5-284 would be good too, but I don't know if you are talking custom barrel or not.
 If it's going to be a custom build, then I would opt for 6mmAI  in a 1-7" or 1-7.5" twist.

Dave

[xphunter]

Personally, I would stay with cartridges that have a head size no larger than the 308.
Fast twist 6's, 6.5's and 7's would be my caliber choices.

[Ladobe]

I have shot long range with my Contender handcannons and XP-100's for decades, and a Sako A1 custom bolt pistol the last few years.   All wildcats in custom barrels at the time bought though, mostly chambered for the JDJ and Super Bower family of cartridges.   The Encore opened up a lot of windows with factory rifle offerings though and you ought to be fine to go with either a 243 or 308.   Lots of great bullet choices available for both of them.   Neither should need a brake unless you decide to try mounting a rifle scope to get those extra X's.    Out of the short tubes they may not perform as well as the wildcats do, but well enough for 500 yards.   My favorite 500+ handcannons have been the 6.5 Super Bower, 257 & 375 JDJ's, with the 6.5SB my 1000 yard pistol.   Quite a spread in parent brass - 225, 307 & 356 Win and 444 Marlin.   I'd like to try a 225 Win based 30 Merrill on my Contenders if I could find good specs for it.

[onesonek]

 I'd like to try a 225 Win based 30 Merrill on my Contenders if I could find good specs for it.

Don't know for sure what the specs are.  But, OTT could make you what you want from a drawing of your own. matched chamber and dies, only take $$$

Dave

[Ladobe]

KW - Please pardon our straying off your original question a little.


onesonek -

$$$ is not a problem.   I'd want a tight neck/chamber, so Mike is who I had always planned to have make the barrel if I ever found the specs.    But I would also want Mike to make all the dies.   Just buying outsourced 30 Merrill load/form dies (Hornady, RCBS) with their loose SAMMI specs wouldn't work for me except as a last resort to get approximate specs.   Money down the drain.   I'd like to find the original specs and load data for the cartridge, and figure out what I want from there since it would be easy for Mike to make changes if I wanted them.   While I have a pretty good library of wildcat cartridge specs, the 30 Merrill is strangely missing in it.   Never found the specs anywhere on-line either, but can't believe it isn't available someplace.   Inquiries on several gun boards with a lot of wildcatters running them also turned up no data, so even there I never found a person who had the data and was willing to share it.   2-3 years ago I even tried to get the data from Jim Rock.    But I never got any answer when I called several times over a couple of months, nor replies to a couple of letters sent to him.   Don't know if he is still in business or even still alive.

Have mostly given up on it even though I have kept 1000 new 225 Win cases and about 2000 of the bullets I'd like to shoot in it on hand in case it ever does happen.   If I ever get serious about it again, maybe I'll just give JD at SSK a call.   When he was developing his 225 Win JDJ's, he must have at least toyed with a 30 caliber version.    Can't remember if he ever offered a 30JDJ, but I've had several of his 226, 6mm, 257, 6.5 and 7mm JDJ's based on this case, and they were all excellent shooters.   Could be he could make me a 30JDJ and dies, which ought to be close enough to a 30 Merrill after the bad luck I've had with getting specs for it.   Probably should have just done this up front now that I think about it.   

L.

[onesonek]

You are probably right in thinking the 30JDJ would be close. If Merrill used a full length 225 case, then the variants between the Merrill and the JDJ wouldn't be much different in performance I'm guessing. It is odd no measurements are around for the Merrill. But whether it be the same or not, you could still draw up your own, plug the numbers into LFaD and come up with starting loads.  Guessing again, being that the .225 case has thicker walls and a standard bolt face rim, it is still close to the 30-30 capacity. So if nothing else,  light .30-30 loads might be a starting point, without investigating it further.
I don't know what JD's dimensions are either, But if it was me, I would still send a drawing to Mike, say blow the case out to .010" taper, 35^ shoulder, with a 1 cal. neck on a full length case. Chances are it being a Merrill are slim, and I doubt it would be a JDJ either. But you could call it whatever you want, unless someone decides to dispute it.

Respectfully
Dave