Author Topic: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to  (Read 38584 times)

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Offline NONYA

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Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« on: January 25, 2008, 04:08:45 AM »
This is a complete explanation of the trigger adjustments and how each one effects the mechanism...

Before we dive into specifics, let’s spend some time defining the terms used to describe triggers and trigger pull.  A good trigger pull has often been described as akin to breaking a glass rod – the rod will not move when bent until it breaks.  Just like the glass rod, a good trigger will not move perceptibly until the firing pin falls.  We call movement before the trigger breaks “creep.”  A creepy trigger then, is one that has perceptible movement before the sear breaks.  The “weight of pull” or simply “weight,” is the amount of pressure required to break the trigger.  Finally, the term “backlash” is meant to describe how much the trigger moves after the sear falls.

 
Speaking of the sear, exactly how does a trigger work?  As you might have guessed, that is a function of the trigger design.  In the case of a bolt action, the trigger serves to release the firing pin housed in the bolt.  The surfaces that control the release of the firing pin are called the trigger sear.  On a Winchester Model 70 trigger, the trigger itself engages the firing pin.  This makes for a simple trigger, but this design has drawbacks.  It is difficult to obtain a light trigger pull that is creep-free – there is too much friction.  The Remington trigger, which first came out in 1948, uses a lever between the firing pin and trigger to eliminate the friction problem.  Figure 1 illustrates the basic design of this trigger, which has been copied by many other suppliers.  A Timney trigger, for example, is almost an exact replica of the Remington (but of higher quality).  Essentially, the middle lever contains a square edge that bears against another square edge that is part of the curved trigger.  When a shooter pulls on the trigger, it causes the square edge to move forward, which in turn causes the opposing square edge on the middle lever to become unsupported.  Because the opposite side of the middle lever has an angled surface that bears against another angled surface on the firing pin, the lack of support of the middle lever causes it to fall and the firing pin to move forward.



 

 

The pressure required to break a Remington trigger is a function of the weight of pull and the trigger sear engagement, or the amount of engagement between the two square surfaces.  If you look carefully at Photograph #1, you can see the two surfaces (look at the hole in the trigger housing just below the receiver cut for the bolt handle).  Both the sear engagement and the weight of pull can be adjusted, as can the amount the trigger moves after the trigger release, also called backlash.  Photograph #2 shows the front of the trigger housing; the two screws in the photo are used to adjust the weight of pull and the amount of backlash.  Photograph #3 shows the backside of the trigger housing, which contains one screw used to adjust the sear engagement.

 

Of course, the first step in adjusting the trigger is to remove the barreled action.  On actions that have a floorplate, this is accomplished by removing the two screws on the trigger; on the ADL model there is a trigger guard retaining screw that must also be removed.  Following removal of the screws, simply pull the action out of the stock.  On an ADL model, you must remove a magazine box retaining screw; on the BDL version, this can simply be pulled away.  If you examine the trigger housing, you will see that the screws on the trigger housing are covered with a shellac-looking substance that prevents movement of the adjustment screws.  This substance must be removed before adjusting the trigger screws; a sharp knife or razor blade is best for this.  The back screw, the sear adjustment screw, is the most difficult to clean, but if you don’t do this, you will ding up the screw head.  Now let’s discuss exactly how to adjust the trigger.

The first screw I adjust is the weight of pull screw.  Cock the trigger by lifting and closing the bolt.  Backing the screw out will lighten the trigger pull, because it elongates the return spring.  Back out the screw and test the pull either by feel or with a trigger pull gauge until it feels right.  If you cannot cock the rifle, it means you have backed the adjustment screw out too far - screw it back in until you can cock the rifle.  The sear adjustment screw, the one on the back of the trigger housing, also controls the trigger pull – specifically, it is used to control creep, or trigger movement before sear release.  However, it also contributes to the weight of pull, because it controls the bearing surface between the middle lever and the trigger (in other words, it controls the how much metal to metal contact there is).  Screwing in the sear engagement screw reduces the amount of creep, or the amount of trigger travel before breaking the sear.  Moving the sear engagement screw in too far will result in an inability to cock the rifle (I usually play with both the weight of pull screw and sear engagement screw to achieve the desired trigger pull).  One criticism I have of the Remington trigger is the amount of goop they put on the sear engagement screw – I have dinged up several trying to turn them.

 

The next step in adjusting a trigger is the most important – ensuring safety.  I run through several tests, the most basic of which is cocking the action by lifting and closing the bolt.  If the action does not stay cocked when cocking the action very quickly, the trigger pull is too light.  If the action passes this test, I then lift the bolt, pull it back to the rear, and slam it forward as fast and forcefully as possible.  If the gun stays cocked after several iterations of this step, you are almost home free.  The next step is to cock the rifle, grab it by the barrel, and slam the gun against the floor.  If the sear releases, the trigger pull is too light.  Finally, if it passes all of these tests, cock the rifle and put the safety on “safe.”  Now lightly touch the trigger and push the safety forward.  If the sear releases, it is time to go back to the drawing board.

 

After establishing a safe trigger pull, backlash adjustment is next on the agenda.  This step is simple – cock the rifle, then screw the backlash adjustment screw all the way in.  Now, with the screwdriver in one hand engaged in the backlash screw, pull the trigger with the other hand.  The rifle will not release the trigger, but keep pressing on it and slowly back out the backlash adjustment screw until the sear falls.  Cock the rifle and press the trigger a few times to ensure the firing pin falls.  You are now finished adjusting the trigger.  The last step is to cement the screws with any agent that will freeze the screws in place so they don’t move.  I use fingernail polish; anything that can later be removed will work.

 


 

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Offline PartsMan

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2008, 04:33:43 AM »
Thanks NONYA.

One heck of a read.
Very informative.
I wish I could see all the pictures though.

Offline sniperVLS

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2008, 10:07:56 AM »
Is the new Xmark trigger set up the same as the old ones? I guess I only have one sure fire way to find out, take the SPS down. I've operated on many a trigger and will know immediately.

** A tad off topic but let me say that the few times I dry fired the SPS yesterday after picking it up, the trigger felt awesome! All hail the new trigger(although I don't know if I like the smooth finish, I liked my ridges).

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2008, 11:23:17 AM »
Great explanation, I would like to see the same thing on the Remington M721/M722 trigger.
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Offline sniperVLS

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2008, 03:18:11 PM »
I tore down the SPS to see the new trigger and I can now say the after inspecting, I only saw 1 screw that could be adjusted(if there are more, I'm going blind), that's in comparison to the 3 the old trigger has. I'm not touching mine until I break it in a little. As of now, it feels excellent so no need to tinker.

Offline KenSel

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2008, 07:18:29 PM »
Great job Nonya!!  very informative.  now if I can just get the kids to bed so that I can take a gander at my rifle.

thanks for the info,

Ken

Offline NONYA

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2008, 04:20:55 AM »
Mod,can you make this a  sticky in the Rem forum?
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Offline sniperVLS

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2008, 11:00:21 AM »
It's been a sticky, hence why it stays at the top  ;)

Offline NONYA

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2008, 05:22:09 PM »
Thanx ;D
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Offline corbanzo

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2008, 09:31:31 AM »
This is something that I need to do real soon on one of mine....

Was the sportsmans warehouse, looking for a new 300 RUM, and took a look at the 700SPS and the 700XCR. 

There were two main differences between them.  One was the feel, the SPS has a lighter, thinner, weaker feeling stock.  Almost as bad as the stevens 200, and also the bolt was the same crappy bolt (it gets better with time...) that my 710 has, while the XCR has the jeweled bolt.  So in use and feel, the XCR was definitely winning.

Why I bring this up here, is because the trigger pull was the biggest factor.  Now the SPS trigger wasn't too bad, but it did have a little creep, and the break wasn't the smoothest ever, which could be adjusted as stated above, but the XCR was in a class all in it's own.  To me, the XCR trigger was the definition of breaking like glass.  It wasn't the lightest ever, but about where I like it in pull, but the crispness of it was amazing.  Hopefully I can get my -06 to that level when I get a chance to take it apart....  And hopefully when I get the UM it won't overshadow my -06....  :o:o

Thanks for the good read nonya.
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Offline wsjones

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2008, 02:28:39 PM »
Very nice description!

Too bad Remington doesn't still include such basic instruction in their owner's manuals.  I still have about 6 photocopies of trigger adjustment instructions, including a diagram, from an older 700 ADL that I share with select friends!

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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2008, 08:09:37 PM »
Remington doesn't include it cuz they REALLY REALLY don't want folks adjusting them. In fact you void the warranty completely when you do. I'm certain that folks adjusting the triggers are the main cause of all the problems folks complain about with the Remington triggers and the lawsuit against them.

I adjust all of mine however.


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Offline NONYA

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2008, 08:47:53 PM »
If they REALLY didn't want us to they wouldn't make a trigger with THREE separate trigger adjustment screws.they just reset the trigger if you have to warranty the rifle.
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Offline jvs

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2008, 09:51:41 PM »
If they REALLY didn't want us to they wouldn't make a trigger with THREE separate trigger adjustment screws.they just reset the trigger if you have to warranty the rifle.

Actually, Remington puts those screws there so the Triggers can be set to Remingtons Specifications BEFORE it leaves the factory.  Doing that consistantly has the tendancy to keep Remington out of Court after people go messing with the original design and specs.  Break the Lok-Tite and you have voided the warranty and opened yourself to standing alone.

Does that mean you can not reset the trigger after you spent YOUR money on a rifle?  NO.

What it really means is that if you do, don't expect Remington to be a Co-Defendent in any action brought against you for any harm done after tinkering with the original design and factory specs.  Even a Thread like this could mean trouble when it comes to some incompetent jerk screwing up a modification and then slyly selling his mistakes to some unknowing person.  Don't think that this has never happened either.

I have triggers that have been worked on too.  But anyone who may come in future possession of any of my reworked guns will be well aware that the work was done before any sale takes place.  Either that or they will be reset to original specs or replaced before the sale, which would be the most logical thing to do.

Good intentions and tinkering pertaining to performance of a rifle has no support in a court of law from the manufacturers.  Nor should it.

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Offline NONYA

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2008, 12:55:27 AM »
It would be very easy to render them UN-ADJUSTABLE after they have them set,all they would have to do is drill the heads off the three screws,it would be cheaper to build a trigger with a horrendous trigger pull and nonadjustable like many other rifle manufactures do.The continue to offer these triggers because people want them,not because they are cheaper or easier to use.Telling someone you made modifications wont save you from a lawsuit,you think they would admit that if they were going to sue you?They could make the mods themselves and accuse you of doing it,there is no way to protect yourself from frivolous lawsuits,lawyers will find a way.Savage advertises their triggers as adjustable,how do they protect themselves?
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Offline jvs

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2008, 12:29:56 PM »
I don't own a Savage with one of those fancy trigger groups, but I can guess that Savage has a spec as to what weight those triggers leave the factory at.  Just because Savage advertises an adjustable trigger doesn't mean the trigger has to be adjusted by anyone but an experienced gunsmith.  Just having instructions on how to do it shouldn't involve everyone who bought one.  You know that as well as I do.  How many times have you read a post and thought... "Geezuz, what is he thinkin"   Those are the people who are responsible for the Liability Triggers coming out of the factories.

And just because Remington doesn't machine the heads off of the screws doesn't mean they are there to be tinkered with by anyone with a Allen Wrench or a Screw Driver .  Without a doubt, years of experimenting with your own pieces pays dividends.  But it is those who pawn their mistakes off on someone else are the ruin for the knowledgable and a danger to the unsuspecting.

One thing I have never messed with was the insides of a gun.  It's not that I don't understand the theory or the science behind them.  I can do a bedding job, mount scopes and tune them up with torque.  I can take a bolt apart, and I'm sure I can do a reputable trigger job but I don't have any interest in the guts. 
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Offline NONYA

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2008, 03:41:59 PM »
Better be careful taking them bolts apart,you could damage the firing pin or spring and make a very dangerous firearm,one that goes off when you dont want it to,then you could get sued.oooooooooooooooohhhh noooooooooooooo the HORROR!Well Me and the rest of us idiots will continue to adjust our own triggers,thanx for the info.
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Offline jvs

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2008, 10:25:03 PM »
Funny you should bring that up.

After your last post I went to Wikipedia to look up the exact definition of an idiot.  Just so we are on the same sheet of music...

In part, this is what I found:

"Idiot" was originally created to refer to "layman, person lacking professional skill" ,  "person so mentally deficient as to be incapable of ordinary reasoning". "Idiots" were seen as having bad judgment in public and political matters. Over time, the term "idiot" shifted away from its original connotation of selfishness and came to refer to individuals with overall bad judgment–individuals who are "stupid". In modern English usage, the terms "idiot" and "idiocy" describe an extreme folly or stupidity, its symptoms (foolish or stupid utterance or deed).


So even though I would have refrained from using any derogatory term concerning a person who adjusts a trigger without proper training, then sells it to an unsuspecting buyer...

I think 'idiot' is right on target for such people. 

I am also confident that you and VLS do not fall under the Wikipedia definition.
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Offline sniperVLS

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2008, 12:36:48 AM »
Hey how did I get mentioned  :D

Note: I have always told any buyer that the trigger was lightened and to tune it to their own liking and to double check it for safety when it arrived.

If I said something in the past to the contrary, I do not recall.

Offline NONYA

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2008, 01:53:09 AM »
I make it a rule to never part with any of my little friends,that way they cant get into the hands of idiots.If I was getting rid of a Rem I had adjusted I would set it back to the horrendous pull it came with,problem solved.
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Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2008, 07:02:02 AM »
I must admit to adjusting the trigger pull on one of my rifles many years ago.  I researched the subject, which was controversial then following the directions I made a slight adjustment.  I was a little nervous about the process because I want my firearm to be safe when I finished.  A lot of the concern was for the safety of others including my wife and children.

After testing by firing, slapping, opening and closing the action and bouncing the butt on the floor I felt the rifle was safe.  I have hunted with the rifle for about thirty-seven years and it has not had a problem.

After reading NONYA post on this topic on January 15, I was talking to a friend who was in the process of cleaning and adjusting a trigger on an older Remington.  He confessed that he was doing this because he had been out shooting and the rifle had accidentally discharged.  He had been shooting and laid the rifle down, and it went off!  We did not discuss if the safety was on or off. 

We had a good discussing on the steps that need to be taken after a trigger has been adjusted.  But admittedly I will be a little nervous the next time I am around him and he has a rifle.

I have inherited a couple of rifles from family members, and my first concern was if the trigger had been adjusted.  They had both passed on and could not advise me if they had adjusted the trigger or any other component.  I have read the post where the guys say this firearm will never be out of my hands, so I am not concerned about the future.  I have learned we cannot predict the distant future much less what is going to happen in the next 24-hours.  I have pulled the blanket over a number of people involved in car, and motorcycle accidents.  One late February night there was a group of us working a small airplane accident on a mountaintop.  Both victims appeared to be in their late 30’s or early 40’s.  We had built a large warming fire in the sub freezing temperatures, and wishing for daylight and a little sun to warm things up.  Every once a while one of us would gather up some firewood for the fire.  One of the wood gathers let out anguished sound when the small log he picked up was a leg from the hip down. 

Did the victims in this accident leave behind firearms they had modified?  An acquaintance that crashed his small plane in Idaho on an elk-hunting trip left behind a number of firearms.  The point being is we do not know for sure what tomorrow will bring.

It is advisable that the owner of a new firearm does a safety check.  A hunting partner and his Dad both bought Winchester Model 670 rifles when a local shop was selling them at a reduced price.  The rifle discharged when my friend closed the bolt on a live round scaring the dickens out of him.  He did a few tests and found that the firing pin dropped when he closed the bolt.  He immediately contacted his father who did a check of his new rifle and found the same problem.  The problem was corrected by Winchester and the rifles have provided good service for many years.


Years ago I purchased a S&W pistol to carry on duty.  I ordered the pistol from a law enforcement supply house.  After receiving it I tested the action and found it suffered from push-off.  Push-off is when the hammer will drop from a full cocked position by a slight push from the thumb.  It was a common problem with medium frame S&W revolvers.  I had to have the firearm repair and a letter of certification before I could carry it on duty.

It was common to modify the trigger pull on S&W and Colt revolvers.  In some cases these weapons were render unsafe or undependable.  The hammer fall was not forceful enough to discharge the round.

They’re are some very talented backyard gunsmiths who can safely adjust a trigger; there are others who cannot fry an egg much less work on a firearm.  I can fry an egg but I am better off leaving trigger adjustment to the experts.

I like NONYA’s write-up on adjusting the Remington 700 trigger and have saved it in a file on my computer, and printed and copy for my files.




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Offline PartsMan

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2008, 07:53:37 AM »
I'll say it again.
Thanks NONYA.

One heck of a read.
Very informative.

I think if more people, doing there own trigger jobs, had this kind of information there would be less accidents.

Offline corbanzo

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2008, 04:38:51 PM »
Just took care of the 710 trigger.  Turned out not too shabby, not too shabby at all.
"At least with a gun that big, if you miss and hit the rocks in front of him it'll stone him to death..."

Offline NONYA

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #23 on: February 29, 2008, 01:10:02 AM »
That is on remmy I havnt tinkered with,can you make a thread and post pics of the action/trigger/bolt ect?
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Offline Skunk

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2008, 06:34:34 PM »
Nonya, did you write that article from your own personal experience of working on Remingtons?
Mike

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Offline corbanzo

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2008, 06:52:43 PM »
Trigger is the same as the 700 for the most part... just cheaper made.  The trigger is looser, not close to even tension on the pull.  But yeah, Next time I open it up to clean it, might as well get a few pics in. 
"At least with a gun that big, if you miss and hit the rocks in front of him it'll stone him to death..."

Offline corbanzo

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2008, 09:36:06 PM »
Bad remington!!!! Bad remington!!!

So I found out, that the trigger on my 710 WASN'T EVEN TOUCHING THE TENSION SPRING.  That's right, the only thing giving it tension was where the trigger hit the sear.  Pisses me off.  I thought it was just a flimsy/finicky spring, I in fact, was wrong(ed). 

I actually didn't notice it the first time I adjusted the trigger, cause the amount of pressure on the middle level to the trigger made it break fairly smooth with the adjustments I had first made on the sear screw and overtravel screw, without even touching the tension screw.  It was the second time, when I backed out the overtravel and sear screw first that I noticed the trigger not rebounding correctly.  It's better now.

The trigger group on the 710 is pretty much the same as the 700, same adjustments, same everything, cheaper made.  Here is the trigger, in all its glory (sorry about the clutter all over the bench)





All put together.  In the 710, the trigger housing is actually made to be part of the reciever.  There may be a way to seperate them... but I didn't want to find out if it was irreversible. 




Nothing special bolt.





Gratuitous snowbank shooting range picture.

"At least with a gun that big, if you miss and hit the rocks in front of him it'll stone him to death..."

Offline dez

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2008, 12:18:02 PM »
 I recently purchased a 700vsf  with the new trigger (x-mark) it breaks great but the pull weight is about 7 lbs.  The trigger still has 3 screws (allen heads). I would like to lighten it to 4 lbs but have been a little  leery about trying to. It seems they fill the screw heads with glue so you can't get a key on them. I see some post said they only have 1 screw is that correct? Mine came with x-mark tag on the rifle. Did they put the correct trigger on it?  Do you think it will lighten up?

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2008, 12:36:23 PM »
Using allen head screws would definitely make it more difficult to clean out the sealant to allow you to adjust it. Might be that's the only change (improvement in their eyes only) they made. Remington really DOES NOT want you adjusting those triggers after it leaves the factory and so making it more difficult is a rational and expected move from their perspective.

I've not seen one of them yet altho it is likely my new Remington Model Seven 25th Anniversary gun has one I will be seeing soon. I'm not real sure how you'd go about digging out enough of the sealant to get an allen wrench in there to loosen and adjust the screws. If/when I get around to it on the new M7 I'll let ya know how it goes.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline DalesCarpentry

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Re: Mdl 700 trigger ADJUSTMENT how to
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2008, 01:19:14 PM »
GB I just looked it up in my 2008 Remington catalog and yes it will come with the new trigger. Do you remember when I first received my SPS with the new trigger. Let me know what you think of the new one. Dale
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