Author Topic: cheap scopes (Read 3934 times)

jamaldog87 · « **on:** January 28, 2008, 10:39:22 AM »

i was reading something in a reload-er mag. at the store and they were talking about how cheap scope are no good and will fail after a few years. Well what is a cheap scope? i have a Simmon new Master Series 8-point scope that i got for mark down but was 60$ and a barska and are these cheap scopes? i know there are some really back scopes( like any 4x15mm) but what makes a cheap scope?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** January 28, 2008, 10:41:31 AM »

Only time will tell, the only Barksa I had fogged up on me when I did the freezer test, so I don't have a lot of confidence in them. They may work fine for you, they may fail right away as mine did.

Tim

tn_junk · « **Reply #2 on:** January 28, 2008, 11:35:38 AM »

Never had a problem with Simmons. Had two Barska that were pure trash.

alan

beemanbeme · « **Reply #3 on:** January 28, 2008, 01:16:54 PM »

Why would you put your scope in the freezer? Does that keep them fresh?

I'm old enough to remember when we had to leave our scoped rifles outside the tent/cabin so they wouldn't fog up in the morning. They weren't sealed nor fog proof.

We have another term: Cheap. Did the guy writing the article put a price range on cheap? If I was having scopes sent to me free so I would write nice things about them, cheap might not mean the same thing as if I was going without lunch in order to buy a scope. At $100, I could buy a new scope every couple of years for a looong time before I came up with the price of one that had a little bavarian sweat rubbed on it. And the question begs to be asked: would the eurotrash scope be 16 times better than my asian scope? I could even afford to buy a back up, mount it in quick release mounts, sight it in, and carry it in my pack as a back up.
I know a fellow that spent all of his money getting his bench rig set up and didn't have any money left over for a "real" scope. He shoots bench rest with a 36x BSA. The cross hairs are kinda coarse for bench shooting but he don't do bad. Especially considering he is competing against scopes in the $1500+ bracket.
I think a fellow can get a fine hunting scope now for a couple of hundred bucks. Especially if he avoids those "men in black" looking things with the big diameters and the high mounts. And the whistles and bells and lights and all sorts of little dots inside. If he opts for a fixed power of say 4x, I think he could get a nice clear scope for even less.
This past fall, a young man brought over his rifle and a scope he had picked up in a trade. It was a
Tasco with most of the paint off of it. He wanted me to mount it on his rifle which I did. We took it out to the shooting bench and the adjustments on that scope were as true as any I've tried. It would shoot an honest to goodness box. About 1.5" was about the best the guy's rifle could do but when I clicked back over to the starting point, it laid the shots right on top of the starters.
I think the quality bar has been raised considerably in scopes. Especially in the optics themselves. So what a fellow has to look for is how the scope is put together.

SDS-GEN · « **Reply #4 on:** January 28, 2008, 01:32:50 PM »

Some things I've noticed in "cheap scopes" including Simmons, Tasco, Bushnell, and Leapers. All under $150. Low light visibility is horrible in most, I have a Simmons 50mm that does pretty well in low light and even used it to hunt predators at night but that is the exception. Anytime the objectives gets anywhere near facing the sun the images wash out bad. A couple wouldn't hold zero after being put on slug guns, or magnums. I've seen the glass tarnish or take on a yellowish tinge with age on a couple, I think this may be due to cheap metalic lense coatings oxidizing. Some have horrible spherical abhorration (image distortion somewhere in the glass). I had one fog up on me. Also had one with a loose occular bell.

I never had any of these problems on my Nikons, Leupolds, or Zeiss. That doesn't mean these are the best scopes in the world or that they won't fail, but none of them have yet and all of them cost more than the cheapo's listed above. Most of the scopes described above came already attached to used rifles I purchased, and left my possession in the trash or on used rifles I've sold. I learned a long time ago that cheaping out on a scope is not the place to save money on a rifle.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #5 on:** January 28, 2008, 01:50:03 PM »

Freezing a scope to check it for leaks is an old method of testing seal integrity, there are different versions as these google hits reveal, but I freeze the scope for a few hours, then remove it from the freezer and immerse it in warm water, if it's not sealed good, bubbles will emerge from the poor seals and it will fog up on the inside immediately. I've been testing scopes this way since I bought my first scope about 45yrs ago, my dad taught me the trick which he learned after having a scope fog on him, that's probably why Weaver swing off mounts were real popular back then cuz scopes were prone to fogging. If a modern scope fogs or leaks, it's defective or a sign of poor quality, even inexpensive scopes can be sealed well.

Tim

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I also put all the scopes in my freezer for three hours and then took them outside, into 68-degree weather, to check for fogging. After they had warmed up to ambient temperature, I took them from the 68-degree weather back to the freezer for an hour for a re-check. They all performed beautifully. Each scope was submerged in a sink full of cool water for 15 minutes and then checked for any leakage. None was detected.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/tip/tip_read.asp?tid=143267&sid=73

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As our final test, we dunked each scope in a warm-water bath for 45 minutes, then cooled the scope in a 0-degree freezer for 1 hour. Water intrusion into the scope body would show up as fog or frost.

http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/feb97scopes.html

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The first test was to check the seals and durability of the scope. After arriving home I set the oven to 140 degrees and set the scope inside to simulate sitting in a hot car. After one hour of baking the scope it was rushed off to the freezer to see if we could get it to crack, fog or freeze up. I am happy to report that the scope came out of the freezer/oven test looking clear and everything working fine. The scope performed equally well later in the week when carried in an air conditioned car and then taken out into 90 degree temperatures with 80% humidity. Also when completely submerged in water no leaks were noted.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/reviews_mueller.htm

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This scope stands up to my freezer test for fog proofing with flying colours.

http://www.hunting-fishing-gear.com/review-display/3566.html

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TIP 2.
If you are planning a trip to a distant country where the temperature can drop to minus 35 degrees Celsius, consider proof testing your rifle scope.

How is this done? It is a simple process of putting your rifle scope into the deep freezer for a few hours.

When you take it out of the freezer, wipe the lens with a lint free cloth and look through the rifle scope. If there is any internal fogging, take the rifle scope back to where you purchased it.

Without testing your rifle scope this way, you could waste thousands of dollars on a hunting trip into some exotic location just because your rifle scope failed to withstand the cold climate.

It may seem like harsh treatment, but you'll be glad to know your rifle.

http://www.deer-elk-turkey-hunting-shooting-tips.com/ezines/deer-hunting-aug03.htm

jhm · « **Reply #6 on:** January 28, 2008, 01:59:50 PM »

When you start requiring you scope to be anything other than a SIGHT you are setting yourself up for some disapointment down the road, I have several of the older Redfield and Weaver scopes, that I add to and remove from my rifles as I add them or trade them off, I havent bought a new scope in so many years I couldnt tell you the time, the latest new scope I have was a replacement SWIFT that the Company sent me and also sent me a new 3X9 for my trouble, I sent them a 4X12 and they errored in the replacement dept. anyhow that SWIFT is mounted on a Howa 223 and it is one accurate package for a cheap rifle and scope combo, its my go to truck gun on the farm. JIM

kevthebassman · « **Reply #7 on:** January 28, 2008, 02:11:15 PM »

Excellent quality hunting scopes can be had for $150-$200. Spending your money on anything less will lead to disappointment.

Jal5 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 29, 2008, 02:46:59 AM »

I agree with Kevthebassman, that is about the price range I look for. You can even get lucky and score one here or on other boards classifieds and get a really nice scope for that kind of cash.

kevthebassman · « **Reply #9 on:** January 29, 2008, 03:06:51 AM »

I like the Burris Full Field II. It's a good scope and holds it's zero VERY well. Mine flew out to Arizona, bounced around in the back of trucks on dirt roads for a week and went over hill and mountain, then flew back, and is still holding right at 1.5 inches high at 100. That's quality right there.

jamaldog87 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 29, 2008, 05:46:54 AM »

i have a very cheap 4x15mm on my crosman airgun and i have drop it on the scope on rocks and used it in the rain and it's hold up well for it's self. the simmon was on the 766 airgun but the gun gave out so it's just sitting around now. the barska on my .22LR got ran over by my bike and it's still works. the Low light visibility on the simmons is very good(or at least the one i got) i have used it for a lot of rat hunting at night. i just used a scope for were i am hunting at. In the high water area i use the cheap 4x or no scope at all because i don't think any scope will hold up to saltwater and sand.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #11 on:** January 29, 2008, 07:13:31 AM »

It takes a well made scope to stand up to the hammering of a magnum or a shotgun. I've never owned a scope at any price that if you looked toward the sun it wouldn't milk out. But I'm not sure price is much of a yard stick on how well a scope is made any longer. For every guy you've got that has a long story of "cheapo" scopes letting him down, you have several that have had good luck with them. A friend of mine shoots a 30-338 custom rifle made on a Sako action with a Tasco scope on it. Another took $50 from me shooting a .300WM A bolt with a 3x9 Burris on it. So go figure.

I still want someone to tell me what is "cheap". I wouldn't put a $50 scope on a rifle and head out into the rough and remote with plans to be gone a couple of weeks without a back up but I might do that if I was hunting behind the house. I wouldn't put a $500 scope on a rifle and head out without a back up neither.

Over the years, I've sent two scopes in for warrenty work. One leuy and one weaver. they were both returned to me in about a week. Now questions asked. I doubt that a $50 scope company would have done the same (I don't know) but I'd have probably just trashed the scope. That's where the crap shoot comes in.

jamaldog87 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 30, 2008, 06:31:22 AM »

if you can find them AMT, leather-wood, and Doctor scopes are the best scopes for the money(they all are swat and military sniper scopes). I can say from at least using the AMT(tom had one) that they are the best i have used. Sand, salt water, every being stepped on by a donkey( we were feral donkey hunting) it took it and as far as i know it's still works. I also have hear great things about the kahles AH and zeiss conquest scopes. i did some research and most scopes unless mark for are made to be used on 30/06 or less guns. so if you used a 30/06, 270, or sometime along those lines you should be OK with a cheap scope and if you also baby it to.

youthpastorjon · « **Reply #13 on:** January 30, 2008, 09:32:49 AM »

When it comes to optics you get what you pay for. There is a reason that Baska is the cheapest scope on the market.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #14 on:** January 30, 2008, 09:48:29 AM »

Quote from: youthpastorjon on January 30, 2008, 09:32:49 AM

When it comes to optics you get what you pay for.

That's not entirely true, Mueller Optics are definite proof that you can get a lot of scope for your money on a limited budget.

Tim

PartsMan · « **Reply #15 on:** January 30, 2008, 10:12:36 AM »

I have Simmons, Bushnell, and Tasco on my rifles.
No complaints yet.

burntmuch · « **Reply #16 on:** January 30, 2008, 10:53:48 AM »

I like the Burris scopes. $150-$200. Great warranty too. All my scope are bought with the change jar. Every 6 mths cash in the change jar & go buy a scope.

youthpastorjon · « **Reply #17 on:** January 30, 2008, 11:02:30 AM »

That's awesome. I bought an encore frame from my change jar.

burntmuch · « **Reply #18 on:** January 30, 2008, 11:11:20 AM »

Just gotta keep the wife & kids out of it. My last scope purchase was a Swift 2x7. It had a NEF 243 attached to it.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** January 30, 2008, 11:54:11 AM »

Quote from: burntmuch on January 30, 2008, 10:53:48 AM

I like the Burris scopes. $150-$200. Great warranty too. All my scope are bought with the change jar. Every 6 mths cash in the change jar & go buy a scope.

Used Burris scopes are indeed great buys, I have 3 of em, paid $130 or less for em, one is American made, the other two are made in the Philippines. My "change jar" is one of those American Licorice tubs, it holds anywhere from $250-$400 depending on how many times the wife hits it for quarters for the vending machines at work!!

Tim

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #20 on:** January 30, 2008, 02:29:38 PM »

Once you own a good scope you get spoiled.
I look for good scopes at a bargain price if I need it or not. In the last month I found a looks like new Nikon Titanium for $350 and a Burris 3X9 handgun scope for $150.
I have guns for neither but soon will

burntmuch · « **Reply #21 on:** January 30, 2008, 03:08:58 PM »

Thats when you find the deals . When you dont need one

XD9 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 31, 2008, 02:14:18 AM »

Quote from: Hairtrigger on January 30, 2008, 02:29:38 PM

Once you own a good scope you get spoiled.

Definitely agree here!! I purchased a Nikon 3x9x40 for my Rem 700 .30-06 this year and LOVE it. It's the clearest scope I've owned. I can't afford a Leupold or anything like that so Nikon will do just fine.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #23 on:** January 31, 2008, 07:44:47 AM »

I own Leupold, Weaver, Burris, and Nikon scopes. On a hunting rifle, I can't tell any difference between them for all practical purposes. The animal certainly aren't any deader with a $800 Leuy than with a $200 Nikon. And this elusive brightness talked about might be visible if the scopes were side by side but my eyes quickly adjust to whatever rig I'm hunting with.
I think if someone spends $200 for a 3x9x40 scope, they should be a good piece of glass (plastic) that will give them good service.

jamaldog87 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 31, 2008, 08:11:19 AM »

Quote from: beemanbeme on January 31, 2008, 07:44:47 AM

I own Leupold, Weaver, Burris, and Nikon scopes. On a hunting rifle, I can't tell any difference between them for all practical purposes. The animal certainly aren't any deader with a $800 Leuy than with a $200 Nikon. And this elusive brightness talked about might be visible if the scopes were side by side but my eyes quickly adjust to whatever rig I'm hunting with.
I think if someone spends $200 for a 3x9x40 scope, they should be a good piece of glass (plastic) that will give them good service.

If i am going to spend 800$ for a scope then i would put it on a gun worth of that scope(like a weatherby,dakota arms or jagdwaffe) . I know Leupold are good but i would put a Zeiss Conquest, Swarovski American, or Kahles Helia (it's what a pH uses so it what i would use.) in fact when i do get to real big game hunting(things besides varmints and hogs) i am going to get a Zeiss 3-9x40 Conquest Rifle Scope with the ZRF Ranging Reticle cause there about 450$

beemanbeme · « **Reply #25 on:** February 01, 2008, 08:16:59 AM »

Isn't it great to live in America. You can buy any rifle you want to and put any scope on it you like. And you can predicate your purchases strictly on price and believe you are getting quality. Thus people line up to pay $200+ for a pair of sneakers that cost $5 out the door of the factory in Korea.

America, where gross indebtedness has become a competitive sport.

jamaldog87 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 01, 2008, 10:01:19 AM »

i go by what works not how much it cost. I have a pair of 20$ sneakers that has out lasted most peoples 200$ sneakers and i have them on ever day. Why can't we get back to making well made things.

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #27 on:** February 01, 2008, 10:12:32 AM »

Yes dead is dead weather you use a BSA or a Zeiss

I agree that there is a happy medium. I wish I could be satisfied with a Barska but have seen too many fail.
I shoot mostly woodchucks. This is done in nice weather so fogging is never an issue, trying to spot an ear or eye along a grassy ditch bank is common and clarity is necessary. I also believe that a quality scope does not lose resale value like a cheep scope does

rex6666 · « **Reply #28 on:** February 01, 2008, 10:48:46 AM »

I wish you guys had not brought up the change jar, i have a 3gal pickle jar by the nite stand,
it likes about 3 inches being full. Now you have me wondering how much is there and what do i really need

burntmuch · « **Reply #29 on:** February 01, 2008, 02:35:43 PM »

A whole pickle jar. Now that will buy a nice scope