Author Topic: rifle scope on a contender pistol ? am i crazy ? (Read 1993 times)

martyrd · « **on:** January 28, 2008, 02:25:07 PM »

i plan on buying my 1st contender pistol. maybe a 12 inch barrel for varmint hunting. i have a couple nice burris rifle scopes i would like to put on it. shoot off of a bench, hold gun close not like a pistol. would this work on a 223 cali. or 243 cal ? marty. what kind of groups at 200 and 300 yards ? thanks. marty

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #1 on:** January 28, 2008, 02:52:29 PM »

You can get away with it in a 223 but I would not try it on a 45/70

Grumulkin · « **Reply #2 on:** January 28, 2008, 02:57:12 PM »

I would call you crazy but some people actually do this and I guess it works. Since the eye relief is short, you probably wouldn't like the results with a heavy recoiling cartridge but I doubt you would have problems with the 223 Remington. The 243 Winchester has a bit more recoil but you might get away with it especially with a muzzle brake.

As for accuracy, results may vary. I have a 223 AI Contender handgun barrel that will do 0.5 to 0.75 inches off the bench at 100 yards with a 2-7X handgun scope. It might do better with more magnification. A 223 Remington should do as well. The 243 Winchester should be fairly accurate as well.

Curtis · « **Reply #3 on:** January 28, 2008, 03:30:12 PM »

I have a 6-10.5 x 40mm rifle scope on my 14" .22 rimfire barrel and it's a lot of fun. I have a regular handgun scope on my .223 rem 10 inch and I don't think I'd be safe behind a rifle scope, but you might get away with it with your 12 inch barrel. The Contender is not chambered for .243 but the Encore is which is a heavier frame and might be a possible candidate for a rifle scope, but that's just a guess on my part.

Curtis

MnMike · « **Reply #4 on:** January 28, 2008, 04:51:10 PM »

I think this works great in .223 on the bench. You can move in close to acquire the target, then back up a bit for safety. I currently have a 3x9 4" eye relief scope. 100 yd groups are 3/8" with hand loads. I am going to move to 16x in a shorter eye relief scope when I get a couple of other projects done. Still no scars!

mike

tn_junk · « **Reply #5 on:** January 28, 2008, 05:44:29 PM »

I have a .243 Encore 15". It is a sweet shooting little gun, but I sure wouldn't want it close enough to my face to use a rifle scope.

alan

Ladobe · « **Reply #6 on:** January 29, 2008, 09:48:21 AM »

Marty - You may or may not get away with a rifle scope on a 12" 223. Depends a lot on the loads you shoot and the eye relief of the scope you choose. Doubt you'll get away with a rifle scope on a 243 pistol even though as already said it would have to be on the pound heavier Encore and not the Contender. There are wildcats that approximate the 243 that you can shoot on the Contender frame.

Putting rifle scopes on the low recoiling TC's has become pretty popular, but I just can't make myself do it. Rifle scopes are for rifles - pistol scopes are for pistols and I'm too set in my ways to change. Herein lies the quandary though. Pistol scopes at present still only offer up to 12X magnification, and everybody would shoot much better off a rest or bench if they had more magnification than 12X no matter what cartridge you are shooting. Varmint hunting just begs for all the magnification you can get for small targets at long ranges. But most of my TC's shoot wildcats that recoil way too much to use short eye relief scopes on them, including many of my varmint barrels.

I used to shoot a 6.5 Super Bower in the 1000 yard matches with only a 10X Burris on it. It now wears a 3-12 Burris, but the 6.5Sb is very capable at 1000 yards out of a short barrel and even the 12X is just not enough magnification to let it do what it can do. It begs for a 36X, but has too much recoil to use a rifle scope. True, I might get away with it when using the Bower Rest by getting on target and moving my head back, but few could hold true when moving around after locked in even with that rest. Besides, that "too set in my ways" thing gets in the way. Pistol scopes can be bumped, and I though about having a couple of my Burris 10X's done once, but the new model 10X has a terrible eye relief to start with, the cost of bumping is high and the optical quality after bumped questionable. Apparently it will be hard to do with a long eye relief scope, but someone needs to up the ante with pistol scopes in the 20-24-36 range. They would sell thousands of them in short order because there are just too many cartridges available for handguns now that can't reach their potential with the scopes currently available for them.

IMO-YMMV

Graybeard · « **Reply #7 on:** January 29, 2008, 12:34:26 PM »

I used a rifle scope on a VVCG 14" full bull barrel with a full target fore end. With 50 grain loads the scope contacted my head just above my eye about half the time even when concentrating hard to avoid it. The rap it gave me wasn't bad and certainly wasn't bringing blood but by the end of a shooting session I knew it had been hitting me.

The .223 is marginal for rifle scope use in my opinion and it is advisable to use a very long eye relief scope and not get careless. Back in the 70s we started using rifle scopes in NRA silhouette matches so I'm quite familar with doing it. Using the .22 Magnum and .32 H&R Magnum I got by with it OK but like with the .223 that .32 would get me from time to time, not hard and no blood but it would kiss me and whisper in my ear. That was free hand shooting naturally and not as control able as from a bench so recoil moved it a bit more than from the bench. I used the Leupold 6x42 scope on the .32 barrel as it has about as long of eye relief as I could find. I needed it all with the 100 grain bullets I was using.

xphunter · « **Reply #8 on:** January 30, 2008, 05:46:35 AM »

Quote from: martyrd on January 28, 2008, 02:25:07 PM

i plan on buying my 1st contender pistol. maybe a 12 inch barrel for varmint hunting. i have a couple nice burris rifle scopes i would like to put on it. shoot off of a bench, hold gun close not like a pistol. would this work on a 223 cali. or 243 cal ? marty. what kind of groups at 200 and 300 yards ? thanks. marty

As you can tell your mileage will vary w/people's experience and the weight/cartridge/brake?/style a person uses has a lot in determining whether it can be done safely or not. A 12" contender barrel set-up will be fairly light IMO.
Leupold and NF probably have the longest eye relief's at high magnifications. this is key since you need all of the fudge room as possible. Since I use XP's/MOA's & other bolt specialty pistols guns more often I have weight on my side. I just did get a 223 AI Super 14 barrel and I intend to use a rifle scope for some PD'ing and load development (no brake).
I have already used rifle scopes on other light weight SP's with good success. I have been lightly touched with my 6mm-284 XP (no brake when shooting 115 DTAC's over 2700fps) about 5-7 times with a Burris rifle scope. Since I have gone to Leupy's I have not had the problem.
Braked SP's using 20-25X rifle scopes: 6.5-284, 243AI, 260 rem, 284 Win, 7mm Rem Mag Imp., and 7mm Dakota. Using rifle scopes for LR shooting, target and varmint is more common than it used to be. I urge caution though.
As Ladobe mentioned, it does change up your style of shooting whether in the bench or in the field.
Ladobe, does this mean you are getting old and set in your ways?

I hunt whitetail, mules, elk and antelope with rifle scopes now and my 13 yr. old son took a whitetail and an antelope this year using rifle scopes on sporter weight 6.5-284 center-grip XP @ 200 & 260 yards respectively. He also did all of his shooting at a LR comp in WY last summer (500, 750 & 1,000 yards) using a 6.5-20 Leupy rifle scope mounted on a rear-grip 6.5-284.
It can be done safely, but again I urge caution.

Ladobe · « **Reply #9 on:** January 30, 2008, 12:40:03 PM »

Quote from: xphunter on January 30, 2008, 05:46:35 AM

...Ladobe, does this mean you are getting old and set in your ways? ...

Hey XP, good to hear from you.

Old? They say you are only as old as you feel. I feel like I'm 109 now days, so I must be old.

Set in my ways? I am stuck in a rut, so I guess the answer is - most certainly.

L.

xphunter · « **Reply #10 on:** January 30, 2008, 01:28:26 PM »

L,
Good to hear from you as well. Come bring your 6.5 Super to Sundance in June and you can play with a number of guys shooting SP's out to 1k. It is not quite as unusual as it used to be.

David D. · « **Reply #11 on:** January 30, 2008, 02:02:02 PM »

I use rifle scopes on my Tenders 14" 22L.R. and 17MACH2 for squirrel hunting.

17MACH2

Also on an 16" 22Hornet Encore for turkey hunting. Took this gobbler at 80 yards with a 40gr VMax.

Did use one on 15" braked 6.5X55 Swede for deer hunting, but recently changed it to a Burris 2X7 pistol scope. It was comfortable to shoot with the rifle scope but I tired of the muzzle flash. All my other TC's are unbraked so they get LER scopes.

doc-and · « **Reply #12 on:** February 03, 2008, 10:43:01 AM »

I slowly but surly changing some of my barrels to rifle scopes,

My 22lr Encore barrel with a Weaver T36 scope

My 22 K-Hornet barrel with a Nikon 6-18x

docand

Nate C · « **Reply #13 on:** February 04, 2008, 05:38:39 PM »

I used a 3x9 Burris Fullfield 2 on a 10" 22 hornet and it looked funny, but worked very well.

My opinion, but the 223 or larger would be a bit much. Not necessarily that it would strike you - but it puts you very close to the muzzle blast.

Ladobe · « **Reply #14 on:** February 05, 2008, 07:45:53 AM »

Quote from: xphunter on January 30, 2008, 01:28:26 PM

L,
Good to hear from you as well. Come bring your 6.5 Super to Sundance in June and you can play with a number of guys shooting SP's out to 1k. It is not quite as unusual as it used to be.

I was probably among the early guys shooting SP's long range I guess. Glad to see it is finally catching on, and Don certainly deserves much of the credit for that. Would love to be at Sundance and appreciate the invite, but am just not up to the travel anymore.

Have a close hunting pard up in WA state that wants a 6.5SB, so I just sent him the contact info for Marc. I see Marc still hasn't added anything on his web site about offering Bower barrels though. Does he have the reamers? If nobody is building them, my buddy has the equipment and experience to chamber his own if the reamers can be rented. He'd like one built from scratch with a premium blank like mine was rather than just a rechambered barrel.

L.

xphunter · « **Reply #15 on:** February 05, 2008, 09:46:41 AM »

Marc has been buried in his primary vocation recently.
I do not think he has any reamers. Mike Sirois (OTT) can give you anything you want with his system.
I think it would be interesting to see, but I believe I can match or beat the 6.5SB with a 6.5-5.6x50Imp. or a 6.5x50RImp in a Contender without fear of stretching a frame.
I know it will outrun anything of Don's in 22, 6mm & 25.
I would also go with a premium blank myself.

giturgun · « **Reply #16 on:** February 05, 2008, 11:05:48 AM »

Actually not , I have a 221 fireball rem XP 100 with a 6.5 x 20 luppy on it . Don't belong to me , I have it to work up a load for

That is if the weather and this case of the upper chest krud will ever cooperate.

Ladobe · « **Reply #17 on:** February 05, 2008, 11:12:40 AM »

xph -

Problem is, Mike's lead time is so long now that getting one in time for our digger shoot is doubtful. So who has Don's reamers? Did he retire them? Would be a shame if he did. No doubt we could just have new reamers cut off my 6.5SB's specs, but was trying to avoid their extra cost.

With the components available now, other possibilities may be able to equal the 65SB, some maybe even surpass it. But not back when I got mine and I'll never need more than what it will do if I could get better glass so its full potential could be realized. So I'd be more interested in getting a target rifle scope bumped down to LER while retaining higher X's for it than taking on yet another wildcat. Have thought about calling Bill at OSC to ask for a quote and specs on doing it to a Weaver T-36 if he can. He's bumped a lot of them up, but I don't know if down to get LER. Even 18X would be a big improvement over the 10 & 12 Burris LER's.

xphunter · « **Reply #18 on:** February 05, 2008, 01:08:58 PM »

Wally Siebert still takes the 24 & 36 power Leupold BR scopes and converts them to LER's. I have one of the 36x converted to 20x LER scopes. I have shot some of my best groups and also made my longest pd kills with that optic. I have considered selling it, but haven't been able to do it to date. I am using rifle scopes more and more on SP's.
As far as the reamer story goes their was some bad things that happened (Marc had no part or fault in this) with some of Don's stuff. Also, One of the guys who re-chambered barrels for Don either had his own reamers or bought them from Don. I have no clue, beyond talking to Marc where the reamers (if there were anymore) might be. Marc may have some drawings-Again, not sure.

If you are ever heading to Wyoming, give me a holler, as I have a dog town where you can stretch any of your SP's barrels.
I will be attempting my 2K goal with a SP this spring and summer.

Ladobe · « **Reply #19 on:** February 05, 2008, 06:35:23 PM »

I thought I had heard Wally wasn't doing them anymore. I'll give him a call, and Marc on the reamers.

Thanks for the updates, and for the invite. Not likely I'll get up that way again, although I would like to visit the old stomping grounds in the Island Park/YNP, Beartooth Plateau and Wind River areas I spent so much time in all of my life again before I die.

L.