DO NOT USE A STANDARD ENCORE SCOPE BASE ON ENCORE SHOTGUN BARRELS!!!

[whitfang]

If you use a standard Encore scope base (4.5 inches long, with 4 holes) on an Encore shotgun barrel, you can ruin it.  The standard screws are too long and will push into the bore (see picture below).  Most of the opinions say that T/C will NOT replace such a damaged barrel under warranty.



You must use a special T/C scope base Part# 9949 for Encore shotgun barrels.  This special base is 8 inches long, with 6 holes.  It uses the normal 4 scope holes and the 2 holes from the rear sight.  The picture below shows the two bases and screws.



The correct length screws for an Encore shotgun barrel are .308 long, used with the #9949 base.
The standard, incorrect screws for an Encore shotgun barrel are .346 long, used with the #410 base.

The first picture was provided by DroptheHammer.

Beware of buying damaged barrels! DroptheHammer found his on GunBroker and I located mine on GunsAmerica.

This picture shows the two bases from above.

[30-06man]

Have the Mod make this a sticky so it will stay at the top of the page. Maybe he will start a FAQ for the top of the page also.

[Coppernot]

I would have thought the screw would have failed before the barrel. How much torque would it take to drill these screw into the barrel? I've stripped and broke mounting screws, needless to say I don't know anything about metallurgy but this sounds strange. Stout screw or thin barrel ? Inquiring mind want to know.

[whitfang]

I think it's a problem caused by a thin barrel, but I can't measure the barrel thickness because it's been sent back to the dealer I bought it from.  And he sent it back to T/C to let them look at it.

It's interesting that T/C does not even mention on their website that they make a special scope base #9949 for Encore shotguns.  And the T/C shotgun users manual does not mention this little fact either.  It's a definite booby trap, and it's working really good!

 

[woodchukhntr]

Even small diameter screws can exert an incredible amount of force, especially fine thread screws.  I don't know how much deeper than the recommended screw length is, but, obviously it is less that 0.038".  T/C knows this, and tells you to use the correct mount, you don't use it, and this happens.  If you shortened the screws enough to make it work, then you won't have enough to reliably hold the scope.  That's why the shotgun base uses 6 screws.  T/C, and most other companies will not cover your butt when you make this kind of mistake on such an expensive item.  For what they charge for their barrels, they should throw the correct base in!

[Keith L]

It is an unfortunate oversight that I am sure will cost TC in reputation and in some replaced barrels.  I really doubt it was intended to trap anyone.  TC has nothing to gain by tricking customers into ruining barrels.

I agree that a scope base should be included with barrels that need special ones.  At the minimum the need for this mount should be noted in packing material that comes with the barrel.  My bet is they are including this info now.

When I search for scope bases for 12 gage Encore barrels I find the special one with six holes and short screws.  I guess the mistake is to assume that a standard base will work.  I can understand the assumption, but those who make that mistake need to take some responsibility for the outcome as well.

[whitfang]

Woodchkhntr - what you say is true except for "T/C knows this, and tells you to use the correct mount".  They don't mention it at all. 

Every Encore ever made will take the same scope base.  Now they break from that precedent and don't even find it worthy of mention!

Once you establish a standard you need to stick with it.  How would you feel if Ford brought out a car and switched the brake and gas pedal positions, and did not mention it?  I guess you can blame the consumer and say they should have done some investigating
before driving it.  But it would be really nice to have Ford mention it, several times, and loudly!

[30-06man]

It is an unfortunate oversight that I am sure will cost TC in reputation and in some replaced barrels.  I really doubt it was intended to trap anyone.  TC has nothing to gain by tricking customers into ruining barrels.

I agree that a scope base should be included with barrels that need special ones.  At the minimum the need for this mount should be noted in packing material that comes with the barrel.  My bet is they are including this info now.



When I search for scope bases for 12 gage Encore barrels I find the special one with six holes and short screws.  I guess the mistake is to assume that a standard base will work.  I can understand the assumption, but those who make that mistake need to take some responsibility for the outcome as well.

Lets just assume that the person buying this Encore barrel is new to the sport and knows nothing about the Encore and he assumes that the standard base is the one to use. He is not a fault because T/C didn't let the customer know so the fact is T/c is to blame and no one else is. IMO

[Keith L]

"Lets just assume that the person buying this Encore barrel is new to the sport and knows nothing about the Encore and he assumes that the standard base is the one to use. He is not a fault because T/C didn't let the customer know so the fact is T/c is to blame and no one else is. IMO"


Someone new to the sport would not make that assumption.  They would look up the proper scope base and get it right.  Folks that are accustomed to Encores would make the assumption that there is no change and use the wrong one.
 
Before this is done I bet that TC will replace a bunch of ruined barrels that left the factory perfectly serviceable, and were ruined by folks two smart to look up the right base.  Next thing you know they will not be making a shotgun barrel because of the chance of this happening again. 

You guys who whine about "lawyer triggers" and safetys on lever guns, do you suppose this may be how it happens?

[woodchukhntr]

Whitfang,

Since I don't have an Encore, I figured that there would be some mention of the base in the instruction book.  Not that anyone actually reads it to look for something as important as that.  I can't believe for the rip-off prices of the barrels (you can buy complete handi rifles for that), they don't include bases.  You would think that the price of a label covering the screw hole area, giving the correct base number, would not be too much either.

The blame still lies on the person putting the base on.  When the screws bottom out in the holes and the base is still loose, STOP!  Something is wrong!  One of 3 things is going to happen, the threads will strip, the screw will break, or the screw will punch through into the barrel!

[Varmint Hunter]

The barrel steel beneath the drilled holes must be so thin that this problem should have been anticipated and a redesign should have taken place. Short of that, TC should have included the correct base and screws with every barrel to minimize the problem. Heck - Ruger includes rings with almost every gun they sell so a base would really be no big deal.

Assuming that the regular length screws actually penetrate the bore, I think this hole situation is rather dangerous. Many shooters may use the standard mount and screws and never realize that there is a partial bore obstruction.

Is the picture in the original post a shotgun barrel? I assumed that you were talking about a thin barreled smooth bore.

[whitfang]

The barrels being discussed are 12 gauge shotgun rifled slug barrels.

That's a good point about a re-design being needed.  One tenth inch more steel at the breech end and there would not be a problem.  And there are quite a few thing T/C SHOULD have done to stop this problem from happening.

Woodchkhntr;  Good point on overtightening screws, but who would think that the metal is so thin that you could punch through it?  People tend to use loctite and a lot of torque on scope base screws, to keep them from loosening under recoil!

[30-06man]

The barrels being discussed are 12 gauge shotgun rifled slug barrels.

That's a good point about a re-design being needed.  One tenth inch more steel at the breech end and there would not be a problem.  And there are quite a few thing T/C SHOULD have done to stop this problem from happening.

Woodchkhntr;  Good point on overtightening screws, but who would think that the metal is so thin that you could punch through it?  People tend to use loctite and a lot of torque on scope base screws, to keep them from loosening under recoil!

I like the Wheeler Engineering Fat torque screwdriver. Its a good investment and it solves the problem of how tight should the forearm screws should be or the bases. If they include rings they might as well make good bases but this would make barrels $400. On a side note Bergara Barrels for the Encore went up to $250 a $25 raise and they are still worth it if you want to put together an Encore system cheaper.

[whitfang]

Yep,  I should have bought one of those Wheeler F.A.T. wrenches years ago.  They're only about $40, but I use the excuse now that I only mount about 1 scope a year (if that many) and don't need one.

I should mention that I'm not arguing about this because I stand to lose $330 for the barrel.  I bought a frame and barrel with a scope base on it and the barrel already damaged.  The dealer has agreed to refund my money, so I actually don't stand to lose anything.  It's just not right for T/C to set such a 'booby' trap with no warning at all!

The posts here have mentioned at least six things T/C could have done to prevent damage;
     - mention the special base in the Owner's Manual
     - mention the special base on their website
     - put a sticker over the holes with a warning on it about possible damage with the wrong base
     - design it so that the standard base could not be mounted (different hole pattern, different screw size, etc)
     - include the special base with the barrel
     - engineer the barrel with a thicker wall
And yet they chose to do nothing at all! 

[woodchukhntr]

It is a matter of barrel thickness; the larger the bore, in this case 12 ga., the thinner the wall.  Maybe they should have stopped at 20 gauge.  Obviously the barrel is strong enough for the pressure.  H&R would have a thicker wall, but the Encore barrel diameter is less.  Maybe the answer is not selling 12 ga. barrels, or buying a Handi.

The screws can apply a lot more pressure than that exerted by the shotshell, shown by the fact that firing the gun does not blow upward through the screw holes.

[quickdtoo]

Have the Mod make this a sticky so it will stay at the top of the page.

Done!

[jason280]

Has anyone actually contacted T/C to get their response?  I would be very interested to hear what they have to say!

[Davemuzz]

I have a T\C Encore 12 gauge smooth bore with a vent rib. I am looking to mount a red dot on it for the spring turkey season and have been looking around for a weaver type mount that will work. I called T\C and the rep that I talked to told me the vent rib barrel was not made to "accept" a weaver mount.

So, I have been searching the net and came across this type of mount for a barrel with a vent rib.    This mount "tightens" on the rib just like a Williams Firesight fiberoptic sight. Now, the only issue is the grove for the rib is .306 and the T\C rib width is .315. But I think some careful filing will widen the grove of the mount an additional .009. This mount is made for a Remington shotgun with a vent rib.

FWIW

Dave

[30-06man]

Dave do you have a link? I want one for my 870.

[Davemuzz]

http://www.alscustom.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cat=81


'-06....he has 2 types. (as you will see on the link). The second type looks like (if I read the description correctly) you have to drill holes into your vent rib "rib" and then tighten the set screws into the rib. I didn't like that type (well....it wouldn't work on my Encore anyway...my vent rib's are too far apart) as if you ever wanted to remove it to go back to just the bead.....or sell the gun....then you got these 4 ugly holes in the vent rib. But you know.....too each his own.

MHO

Dave

[30-06man]

I would probably justl leave it on there. Thanks for the link.

[DropTheHammer]

I noticed your #9949 mount base looks like a T/C Maxima or Warne made base.  The only one i thought existed was the weaver 9949....  which is aluminum.  I prefer the warne style...  Can someone post a link to where i can get the steel warne style pictured above?

[30-06man]

I think that's aluminum. There isn't anything wrong with the weaver bases though.

[whitfang]

Some good news here for T/C fans - T/C came through and replaced the damaged 12ga rifled barrel! 

It did take a while though - it's been 12 weeks since my dealer mailed the barrel back to them. 

Originally, T/C told me on the phone that they would NOT replace the barrel.  My dealer must have more clout, even though he's running an operation out of his house, so it's not like he's on the level of Cabelas or anything. 

But I'm happy and working on developing a long-range slug setup for whitetails. 

Thanks T/C!!!!!

[12ptdroptine]

Is this a problem also with  the Pro Hunter barrel's I just bought one from the classified's?

[Keith L]

You will never have this problem if you look up the proper base for your barrel, and use it.  Those that thought they could use a standard Encore scope base wrecked their barrels.  Look it up and you won't have a bit of trouble.

[pastorp]

TC has always had the best service dept. of any of the arms companies here in the USA. IMO. I had my first problem in the mid 1970s. I bought a used hawken muzzle loader with a broken set trigger. Called TC expection to pay for the part but when it came it was no charge.
In my experience, even when it was clearly my fault, and I was always honest about the circumistances, TC stood behind their products. Several here have speculated on TC not doing this level of customer service. All I can say is you haven't dealt very much with them. Regards, Byron

[NOLA]

Checked  with TC on a 20ga barrel
Per TC

The 20 gauge takes the regular rifle which is 9899 blued and 9907 silver.
Hope this helps

Gail

Thompson/Center Arms