Looking on advice for my next rifle

[Maplicito]

I wasn't sure what forum to put this question in, but decided this was the most relevant.

Anyhow, I am trying to decide what my next rifle should be.  I currently have a .303 British, a .22 10/22 (obviously not using that one for hunting much more than gophers) and a .338 Win Mag in Tikka T3 Light.

Before I get into my criteria and reasoning - I'm very new and inexperienced to the sport, and have not actually had a hunting trip, so I am very willing to be humbled and taught lessons by the veterans.  If I have any misconceptions, please feel free to help me get rid of them.

My criteria - which may be kind of conflicting - I want a rifle that's appropriate for deer.  I want to retire the .303 as it's a multi-generational family piece.  I also am inexplicably enamored with the idea of big bore rifles, particularly the .505 Gibbs.  If I get a gun based on the "I just want it" factor, I'm willing to pay more for rounds, but if I talk myself into being practical instead of getting what I just want, then I want something with economical rounds.  I don't reload at this time, but want to eventually get into it.

If I got something like the .505, it'd be purely out of the desire to have it, deer hunting be damned.  Others I've considered are the 45/70, the .270 win, or the .270 wsm.  I am definitely open to other suggestions.  The .338 definitely hit hard the first time I tried using it in a bench-rest type scenario, but I've since become used to it, and am quite comfortable with it, so it would make a good base for recoil comparisons.

Thanks ahead of time to any old-timers willing to spare some time for a wet behind the ears greenhorn 

[Maplicito]

A couple of things I neglected to mention - since my guns are all bolt guns or semi auto - I also have an interest in other actions, like lever or pump.  The next gun doesn't need to not be a bolt gun, but that interest could also be a factor.  Also, I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think my hunting is likely to be in heavy brush - depends on who I get to take me where while I'm learning though.

[persistentprogrammer]

Hi, I would suggest a Safari Grade CZ, they are great looking guns and seem to offer a few good big-bore calibers (cz-usa). I definitely would not recommend single shot, specifically TC Encore. I have one because I read the TC forums for a year and thought it would be a great gun, unfortunately I only focused on the positive posts. For the Encore, it's comprised of nearly as many dissatisfied, as satisfied owners. I'm still on the fence with TC, but I doubt I'll ever buy another. My girlfriend has a CZ 452 and it's the best looking, best shooting wooden stocked rifle we own.

Mine:
Remington 700vs -.308 Win
CZ 452 Varmint - 17 HMR
TC Encore - 350 Rem Mag w/muzzle brake
Winchester Wildcat - 22 LR
Benelli Supernova - 12 gauge rifled (cantilever)
Marlin Auto-loader (old) - 22 LR
Mossberg 500 - 12 gauge rifled
H&R Ultra Hunter - 30-06 w/muzzle brake

[Maplicito]

Thanks for the suggestion.  That's kinda the direction I've been thinking if I were to get the .505 Gibbs... although I think that one may be more of a long term aspiration as the prices I've seen are a bit out of my range... $4000ish was the last I saw in my area.  I'm looking more at the "congratulations, you killed your credit card debt, have a $1000 gun before you tackle the next debt" gun at the moment.  Some of those other CZs really look attractive to me.  I've heard the odd complaint, but there seems to be more approval than disapproval.  I've been looking at Marlins too, but the only one that really calls out to me is the 1895 Cowboy in 45/70.

Thanks again for the suggestion - I definitely intend to have a CZ in the gun cabinet at some point in time!

[Brithunter]

Hi There,

     Looking at what you have and want to use the rifle for my suggestion is to go with either a .270 Winchester or the .308 Winchester as both are versatile. Another option with even better bullet weight selection to the .270 is the 280 Remington or 7-08 or even 7x57.

    In fact thinking about it as I write this the 7x57 might just be the ideal option with bullet weights from 115 grains through to 175 grains it WILL do it all.

    Now CZ do make a fine rifle and I do believe that 7x57 is an option offered.

Good luck with your choice and please let us know how it comes out!

[Maplicito]

Huh... I like the sound of the 7x57.  Another one I had thought about was the 30-06, as more of an all around rifle, but that 7x57 sounds good.  I'm gonna have to do some more research.  Just heard from Master Card, and debt will take a little longer than I expected, but I'm hoping to snag a rifle by summer.  Hmm... looks like I'd have to get my local shop to order that caliber in if I got it in a CZ - they don't carry that one - but ordering it shouldn't be any problem either.  I'll let you guys know what I end up getting, thanks for the advice!

[Brithunter]

Yes 30-06 is good I just thought that the 7mm was more in the middle. It's bit older than the 30-06 being introduced back in 1892 and even then it was very effective as "Teddy's Rough Riders" found out in Cuba when they found them selves on the receiving end of the Spanish model 1893 Mauser's chambered in 7mm.

[beemanbeme]

If you're wanting to kill deer and black bear and like sized animals, get a 7-08 and be done with it. Easy solution.  The ballistic twin of the 7x57 but in a tidy, modern package, it has quietly become one of the premier deer cartridges of North America. On its own merit without any sort of hype as it was developed as a wildcat for silhouette shooting.

[Brithunter]

I have a couple of friends that have had their Mannlicher GK's re-barreled to original contour but in 7-08 instead of the original 7x64. Both rifles are about 40-50 years old and had worn bores so that accuracy had dropped off. Walther of Germany did the work however the 7-08 does not seem to be so good with the heavy bullets as they take up too much room in the case in the short 7-08. I prefer the original as the bullets can be seated out where they belong and I don't worry about the pressures as in my modern rifle I can load to equal pressure as the 7-08. I do not believe the old wives tales about weak brass, not modern construction brass anyway, the normal 7x57 cases of new manufacture will handle the same pressures as any other modern case.

Same reason why I see no advantage in the .260 Rem. I will stick with the old 6.5x55 thankyou.

[corbanzo]

Economical gun that will work for pretty much anything including those deer and you can buy right away:

Remington 700 in a .30-06.

Getting what you want when you have the money:

A .505 gibbs.

Two guns, Problem solved.

[Brithunter]

Corbanzo,

     Depending where you live will determine what is available right away for instance I had trouble finding a rifle chambered in 30-06 when I wanted one, of course once I got one I fell over several more! As for Remington's well the gun shop I now use actually stocks a few but that's the only one I know of and I don't actually know anyone here now that owns any Remington rifles. John my friend who had a VSS in .223 sold all his rifles due to severe ill health.

   

[beemanbeme]

BH, There is something to what you say about the 7-08 vice the 7x57 and the 175gr bullet. But if I want to shoot a 175gr bullet, I have better tools. Availability of ammo would play a part in the choice.  As I reload, I can't be sure but I understand that the ammo available over here is rarther anemic due to the number of old milsup rifles around.  If one is interested in killing a deer with a 130-150gr bullet, the 7-08 will stand him in good stead. If the 7-08 was my only rifle and I wanted to go elk hunting, I'd load up some 160's @2600fps and go elk hunting. And wouldn't feel too limited.

I heard so many howls about how vastly superior the 7x57 was to the 7-08 --you know how the traditionalist are -- that I bought one. A Mark X, full stock, butter knife handle, etc. Similar, I think, to one of yours. I have nothing bad to say about it. The throat was so long that I couldn't reach the lands even with a 160gr bullet. But then I'm not a fanatic over that sort of stuff.  My point is, I wouldn't sell any 7-08 I have in order to buy a 7x57 nor, if the 7x57 were my only rifle, would I sell it in order to buy a 7-08, but, if I were starting out from zero, with neither, I would certainly buy the 7-08.

[corbanzo]

Trouble finding an -06   

I guess depending on where you are...  up here a shop would go out of business in a hurry if they didn't have many an -06 in stock. 

Really why I talk about the -06 is because it has the ability to kill larger game if necessary, and take long shots if those are necessary.  And I love it.  hahaha.  I can't take anything away from the 7-08's, the 30-30's, the .264's, etc out there, because they will all work just fine for deer in normal ranges. 

When you look at a deer, I would say that the deer is the #1 animal that has the widest variety of hunting cartridges that it has been taken with, hands down. 

But I still love the -06, and you never know when you are going to have to take a far shot... or when that surprise moose hunt comes up. 

[Brithunter]

BH, There is something to what you say about the 7-08 vice the 7x57 and the 175gr bullet. But if I want to shoot a 175gr bullet, I have better tools. Availability of ammo would play a part in the choice.  As I reload, I can't be sure but I understand that the ammo available over here is rarther anemic due to the number of old milsup rifles around.  If one is interested in killing a deer with a 130-150gr bullet, the 7-08 will stand him in good stead. If the 7-08 was my only rifle and I wanted to go elk hunting, I'd load up some 160's @2600fps and go elk hunting. And wouldn't feel too limited.

I heard so many howls about how vastly superior the 7x57 was to the 7-08 --you know how the traditionalist are -- that I bought one. A Mark X, full stock, butter knife handle, etc. Similar, I think, to one of yours. I have nothing bad to say about it. The throat was so long that I couldn't reach the lands even with a 160gr bullet. But then I'm not a fanatic over that sort of stuff.  My point is, I wouldn't sell any 7-08 I have in order to buy a 7x57 nor, if the 7x57 were my only rifle, would I sell it in order to buy a 7-08, but, if I were starting out from zero, with neither, I would certainly buy the 7-08.

     Ahhh now the only fullstocked rifle I have is a BSA CF2 in .270 which incidently was my first full bore:-



  My 7x57 is another BSA CF2 but this time a normal half stock:-



  Funny that you mention not beign able to seat near the leade. In my BSA I found that I got far better accuracy by seatign the bulelt deeper in the neck and having more jump. In fact it halved the group size with the Hornady 138 BTSP bullet I have been using.

   Now this is the 30-06 I acquired, it's a Parker-Hale 1100 Deluxe that I paid a bit too much for really, however it shoots quite well with teh loads I have tried. As yet I have not really tried any factory ammunition through it.

I guess depending on where you are...  up here a shop would go out of business in a hurry if they didn't have many an -06 in stock.   

    Well .308 is far more common here, this could be partly to do with the licensing system as the Police run it and they try to avoid granting what they see as more powerful cartridges. Which is one reason why the .243 win is so sommon here, it's the minimum lagal calibre for all deer through out the UK and the police love the idea of minimum!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you were ever able to talk to our licensing folks their lack of knowledge about firearms in general and cartridges and ballistics of any description is quite frightening.

    Several of the members at the gun club have 30-06 and .300 Win Mags but this is due to the fact that they go abroard to hunt Boar and heavier bullets are the norm for European Boar and the shooting is normally driven. The .308 is OK but the ole 06 does drive the heavy (180 grain +) bullets faster for a bit more stopping power.

[Maplicito]

The 30-06 is definitely quite available here.  .308's are definitely around too, but I've seen more 30-06's in the area.  I saw quite a number at the gun show I went to yesterday morning.  I didn't end up with any rifles as I wasn't on enough of a budget to get what I would have wanted, but I did get an old Alger Arms Co side by side 12 gauge for $65.  I also picked up an Ithaca 12 gauge for $300, but that one I'm turning around and selling for a little bit more to someone I work with.

So, no new rifle yet, but that Alger 12 gauge should make a good decorative piece to hold me over until the budget's there this summer.