"Power level" ammo

[corbanzo]

I'm a handloader, so this really means nothing to me.... but I guess it's something else they can market..  Interesting idea at least.


http://www.remington.com/library/resources/online_brochures/power_level.asp

[Brithunter]

Welll looking at their example target I see Power level 1 which equates to that of the ole 30 Springfield. They claim:-

30-06 Performance. Whitetail size game out to long range

Yet the shot on the target relating to this load is a good inch off to the right and if that is at 100 yards then a "perfect" shot will be 2 inches right and add a little wobble and you easily 4 inches right which could mean the difference between a clean kill and a lost beast and that's taking the assumption that every 300 Ultra Mag rifle shoots as well as the test rifle did. Now let's face it they probably tried several to get one that shot that well!

The idea is sound the way it's presented is poor  downloading powerful cartridges is nothing new, heck Townsend Wheelan developed low powered small game loads for his wilderness hunting rifles for use for camp meat to the extent that they did not require any sight adjustment, just a swith of cartridge in the chamber.

Now if they can back their claim :-

Plus, point of impact between Power Levels is within 2” at 200 yards,

With every box of ammo in any rifle chambered for the 300 Ultra Magnum then they have something to really shout about.

However I cannot see them backing that claim up  if an owner of a 300 Ultra Magnum buys this ammo and does not get the same results and complains what do you thing Big Greens reply will be?

[sniperVLS]

Wow, another ever so slight Big Green bashing by Brithunter...

what a surprise 

[victorcharlie]

I don't get it either.........power level 1 ammo will cost 3 time the price of 30.06 ammo........why not buy a 30.06 and get the benefit of cheaper ammo?

[SuperstitionCoues]

I don't get it either.........power level 1 ammo will cost 3 time the price of 30.06 ammo........why not buy a 30.06 and get the benefit of cheaper ammo?

Depending on how much you shoot, would a 30-06 be more cost effective?  IMHO, just get the 30-06, learn how to hunt, and don't worry about the bruising of a 300 magnum.

[mountainview]

If Rem wants to invest in and try a new concept out in the marketplace, why not? The sport would get pretty stale for a lot of people if nothing changed or something new emerged at least once in awhile.

[BRL]

Why not use the .30-06 and load it from hot to not. A full power load down to say a light .30-30. They could probably squeeze 3 or 4 loads in there somewhere. I think there would be more of a market for that. Just my opinion. I have used their "Managed Recoil" load quite a bit and like it. I suppose it is along the same lines. Although, called something else and marketed differently, it would probably sell more.

[corbanzo]

Some of my handloads for my -06 group more than 2" apart from eachother, but they still group tight... so I still use em.  You just have to know where the ammo shoots from your gun. 

And having ammo that will perform different functions can be good also.  I bring 180 grn tsx's and also 130grn sp's with me when I go hunting.  Just in case you see that varmit/predator way out there, the other bullets come in handy.  So if I can fire two totally different powered loads from the same gun.  That is good for me.  As I said before, mine are handloads, but for somebody who doesn't load, I could see a definite market for this ammunition. 

[30-06man]

I think its a good idea for the factory ammo shooter.

[Brithunter]

Wow, another ever so slight Big Green bashing by Brithunter...

what a surprise 

    Actually it's makes no difference who makes this ammo, the whole idea is a bit off target as I said the makers of the ammo have no control over the rifles it would be used in. As you are well aware not all barrels nor rifles for that matter shoot the same. Now as the ammunition makers, Remington in this case, have no control over ALL the rifles in which this ammo wil be used despite their advertising claims there is no way they will back their advert claims, in fact it would really be impossible to, because every purchaser that did not achieve the results equal or superior to their advert would then have recourse to claim refunds and any expenses they inclurred. I am sure there would be a raft of Lawyers to take up cases like that.

    As for trying to remember where your rifle shoots with different ammo to my mind that's just asking for a wounded beast especially when the shot has to be taken quickly. It's only natural to place the sights where you would expect the shot to go not forget that "with this load" it shoots 2" high and right than add in the factors of standing and trying to get to shot off quickly before the chance is lost and the shoot goes even wider!

     As an example I have a rifle which hates the Winchester factory 150 grain loadings, from a rest at 100 yards it will only group them in about 3 1/2" yet with handloads using 130 Spire Points it groups well under an inch.

[PartsMan]

If you thought you had a need for a 300UM it would be nice to be able to load down for whitetails and such.
You could buy a few boxes of it before justifying a whole new 30-06 and scope.

Being 1 or 2 moa off on a accurate rifle won't matter much for the size of game this rifle is made for.

[corbanzo]

Wow, another ever so slight Big Green bashing by Brithunter...

what a surprise 

    Actually it's makes no difference who makes this ammo, the whole idea is a bit off target as I said the makers of the ammo have no control over the rifles it would be used in. As you are well aware not all barrels nor rifles for that matter shoot the same. Now as the ammunition makers, Remington in this case, have no control over ALL the rifles in which this ammo wil be used despite their advertising claims there is no way they will back their advert claims, in fact it would really be impossible to, because every purchaser that did not achieve the results equal or superior to their advert would then have recourse to claim refunds and any expenses they inclurred. I am sure there would be a raft of Lawyers to take up cases like that.

    As for trying to remember where your rifle shoots with different ammo to my mind that's just asking for a wounded beast especially when the shot has to be taken quickly. It's only natural to place the sights where you would expect the shot to go not forget that "with this load" it shoots 2" high and right than add in the factors of standing and trying to get to shot off quickly before the chance is lost and the shoot goes even wider!

     As an example I have a rifle which hates the Winchester factory 150 grain loadings, from a rest at 100 yards it will only group them in about 3 1/2" yet with handloads using 130 Spire Points it groups well under an inch.

But that is true with ANY ammunition.  It doesn't matter if it is at another power level.  In my -06, it will shoot federal 170grn sp's about two right on with my reloads, 180grn winchester silvertips about the same place as most of my reloads, a little to the right if I remember correctly, accelerators about 3 inches up and 3 inches left, and 220 grain cor-loks shoot about three inches high and one inch left.  All at 150 yards, from different factories.  I know this, and plan accordingly (As in I don't shoot factory ammunition anymore)  Any ammunition that is at all different you should know and plan accordingly.

If you are missing because you are using different ammunition, that is YOUR fault.  Because you are an IDIOT if you think that all ammunition is going to hit in the same place.  (not you personally, in general, and idiot would come to such a conclusion)

[Brithunter]

Corbanzo,

    True but what you failed to mention to the "idiots out there" is that different batches of factory ammo also can and often do shoot to different points. Which is why when buying ammo from a new batch you should check how it shoots in that particular rifle. This is a common fault with our daft licensing folks (the Police) who have little or no understanding of shooting let alone ballistics! They seem to think that you can buy any old box of ammo in the correct chambering and just shoot it accurately, there is no need to zero even a new rifle and scope combo as it magically shoots perfectly out of the shop or box!!!!!!!!!!

   As these Police think themselves "EXPERTS" they freely dish out advice most of which would serve better as jokes in Christmas Crackers. Personally I zero wit the ammunition I will be using in the hunt and if the rifle has not be fired for soem time I still check zero before a hunting trip even if it's zeroed for that ammo. That way if I make a bad shot it has to MY mistake and not the rifle ammo combination and some years back I missed what should have been a fairly easy shot on a Muntjac. The shot was about 70 yards but was taken free hand with no opertunity for a rest as the Deer walked out in front of us onto the Ride (access track through the wood) and the shot had to be taken quickly before the Muntjac could bark an alarm call. Both the Gamekeeper and myself were stunned when the deer didn't go down but ran off back into the wood. After a careful search we found no Paint or Pins (Blood or Hair) just a little disturbed ground fron the deer wheeling around and bounding off. Normally I would use a stick or tree, post etc as a steady and take the time needed for a perfect shot. I have taken free hand shots before and brought the beast to larder but this time it went wrong fortunatly it was s clean miss and did no result in a wounded beast.

   Now Remington was only mention in this thread as the first poster drew attention to this new Remington Ultra Magnum ammunition!

[beemanbeme]

Many a pundit, in trying to add to the appeal of the rifle he was touting, has suggested loading different bullets to different velocities for greater versatility.  I even adjusted the loads for a 30-06 so that I was shooting 150, 165, and 180gr bullets all to the same point of aim at 100 yards. What for, I don't recall, as I shoot 165s from my 30-06's except the one time I took one elk hunting with 200's.
In my case, Murphy's law never rests however and I would guarantee that if I went afield, I would be sure to have the wrong ammo along.  So, when I buy a new rifle, it is with a niche bullet weight in mind, and I work up a good load in that weight and use it on everything or take a different rifle.
I do think that any idea that sells more rifles and ammo is a good idea.  I just hope that Big Green isn't building a dedicated plant to supply this ammo. 

[corbanzo]

Corbanzo,

    True but what you failed to mention to the "idiots out there" is that different batches of factory ammo also can and often do shoot to different points. Which is why when buying ammo from a new batch you should check how it shoots in that particular rifle. This is a common fault with our daft licensing folks (the Police) who have little or no understanding of shooting let alone ballistics! They seem to think that you can buy any old box of ammo in the correct chambering and just shoot it accurately, there is no need to zero even a new rifle and scope combo as it magically shoots perfectly out of the shop or box!!!!!!!!!!

   As these Police think themselves "EXPERTS" they freely dish out advice most of which would serve better as jokes in Christmas Crackers. Personally I zero wit the ammunition I will be using in the hunt and if the rifle has not be fired for soem time I still check zero before a hunting trip even if it's zeroed for that ammo. That way if I make a bad shot it has to MY mistake and not the rifle ammo combination and some years back I missed what should have been a fairly easy shot on a Muntjac. The shot was about 70 yards but was taken free hand with no opertunity for a rest as the Deer walked out in front of us onto the Ride (access track through the wood) and the shot had to be taken quickly before the Muntjac could bark an alarm call. Both the Gamekeeper and myself were stunned when the deer didn't go down but ran off back into the wood. After a careful search we found no Paint or Pins (Blood or Hair) just a little disturbed ground fron the deer wheeling around and bounding off. Normally I would use a stick or tree, post etc as a steady and take the time needed for a perfect shot. I have taken free hand shots before and brought the beast to larder but this time it went wrong fortunatly it was s clean miss and did no result in a wounded beast.

   Now Remington was only mention in this thread as the first poster drew attention to this new Remington Ultra Magnum ammunition!

Yep, me being the first poster.  And what you are saying by agreeing with me is that your first post about the difference in POI is null and void in terms to remington and power level ammo, but can be true about all ammunition. 

Go big green!

[Coyote Hunter]

‘Power Level’ ammunition – what will they think of next???

Let’s see…  Christmas 2002 a Marlin .45-70 shows up under the Christmas tree with my name on it.  I spent the next couple years developing 18-19 different loads for it, from plinkers with 7 foot-pounds of recoil to what I call my ‘Rhino Blaster’ loads with 48 foot-pounds recoil.  Christmas 2004 a .300 Win with my name on it shows up under the tree.  First thing I did was develop some .308 Win and .30-06 equivalent loads.

Reduced recoil factory loads are available for the .260 Remington and the .30-30 and reloading manuals often provide reduced recoil data, so ‘Power Level’ loads are neither new nor innovative.  Indeed, it seems there is a recurring demand for them. 

[Brithunter]

Corbanzo,

    True but what you failed to mention to the "idiots out there" is that different batches of factory ammo also can and often do shoot to different points. Which is why when buying ammo from a new batch you should check how it shoots in that particular rifle. This is a common fault with our daft licensing folks (the Police) who have little or no understanding of shooting let alone ballistics! They seem to think that you can buy any old box of ammo in the correct chambering and just shoot it accurately, there is no need to zero even a new rifle and scope combo as it magically shoots perfectly out of the shop or box!!!!!!!!!!

   As these Police think themselves "EXPERTS" they freely dish out advice most of which would serve better as jokes in Christmas Crackers. Personally I zero wit the ammunition I will be using in the hunt and if the rifle has not be fired for soem time I still check zero before a hunting trip even if it's zeroed for that ammo. That way if I make a bad shot it has to MY mistake and not the rifle ammo combination and some years back I missed what should have been a fairly easy shot on a Muntjac. The shot was about 70 yards but was taken free hand with no opertunity for a rest as the Deer walked out in front of us onto the Ride (access track through the wood) and the shot had to be taken quickly before the Muntjac could bark an alarm call. Both the Gamekeeper and myself were stunned when the deer didn't go down but ran off back into the wood. After a careful search we found no Paint or Pins (Blood or Hair) just a little disturbed ground fron the deer wheeling around and bounding off. Normally I would use a stick or tree, post etc as a steady and take the time needed for a perfect shot. I have taken free hand shots before and brought the beast to larder but this time it went wrong fortunatly it was s clean miss and did no result in a wounded beast.

   Now Remington was only mention in this thread as the first poster drew attention to this new Remington Ultra Magnum ammunition!

Yep, me being the first poster.  And what you are saying by agreeing with me is that your first post about the difference in POI is null and void in terms to remington and power level ammo, but can be true about all ammunition. 

Go big green!

   Corbanzo,

         Yes differing points of impact is true of almost all factory ammunition and can alos effect handloads when a new batch of powder is used for a tried and tested load. As I pointed out if they, they being Remington in this case as it was the Remington advert being quoted, can guarentee that this Power Level Ammunition can produce the results of shooting to within 2" of the other level loads in "ALL" rifles then yes it's a break through but as I said I cannot see Remington nor any other ammunition manufacturer standing behind a claim like that as having no control over all the rifles it might be shot in they would be making a rod for their own backs and opening themselves to claims for costs when the ammunition failed to produce the advertised accuracy. Even having control over their own rifles I cannot see them backing the claim when used in Remington rifles as I believe they only claim to produce a rifle capable of shooting groups of 2" and under at 100 yards. Even if their rifles normally produce better accuracy than this factory standard the 2" criteria covers them nicely against those that don't shoot MOA or under.