Author Topic: Whar iz everybody? (Read 20701 times)

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #30 on:** July 23, 2003, 12:35:12 PM »

There are lots of picutes around of larger cannon being turned on VERTICAL lathes - and then horizontally turning the whole rig to finish the trunions. Machinery much too big for my home shop.

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #31 on:** July 25, 2003, 01:10:24 PM »

New pictures up at http://www.geocities.com/diannebest/Cannon/Cannon.html
(also re-arranged the page to make it faster loading)

Better luck this time!

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #32 on:** July 25, 2003, 03:54:14 PM »

CJ -

Great pix & website.

Next comes the BOOK and then the MOVIE.

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #33 on:** July 25, 2003, 05:10:01 PM »

If'n I gotta do a nude scene, I hope the theater has LOTS of exits :eek:

Jeff B. · « **Reply #34 on:** July 26, 2003, 04:06:56 AM »

CJ, thanks for posting your experiences to a web site for all of us to see. Wow! Your cannon is really overbuilt for safety isn't it?

If it were me, I probably would have said to hell with the steel liner providing that the bronze was of suitable alloy and wall thickness to handle black powder pressures. It sure seems to have made your life a whole lot more complicated. Your cannon should be literally bomb proof. I can't possibly see how you'd ever have to worry about a burst barrel.

It should be a fine looking piece when you're completed. Keep up the good work!

Double D · « **Reply #35 on:** July 26, 2003, 04:49:28 AM »

Whew, CJ don't be saying things like that. I was sweating the response.

A suggestion for your carriage. Go out off your way to find White Oak. Red oak will work, but white oak is better. It's stronger and more correct.

DD

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #36 on:** July 26, 2003, 12:12:16 PM »

Whal Jeff, I don't think it's "over-built" - actually, from an engineering standpoint, it doesn't have as large a safety factor as I'd like. The only pressure curves I could find ("interior bullistics") on blackpowder gave a peak pressure loading of 30,000 PSI but didn't specify the caliber, the charge, or the muzzle velocity. When you take the yield strength of steel and the sleeve thickness, there isn't a very large safety factor. At least the steel is a "graded steel" intended for structural applications, meaning that it's composition and characteristics are fairly closely controlled.

The bronze tube is 660 leaded bronze (normally used for shaft bearings). I would not rely on its mechanical properties to be consistant.

I had the option of having the barrel cast in either iron or bronze. I ruled out iron because I am familiar with the only available foundry and I do not trust them to pour a known grade of material EXACTLY as I would specify (muzzle up, with traps for slag and debris in the sprue) - not unless I was there to watch them do the melt and do the pour.

Cast bronze would have been nice but I still don't trust the integrity of a bronze casting, so it would have been sleeved anyway. I could have cast bronze over the steel sleeve, but I am not familiar enough with the bronze foundry to know if they could do that properly.

When it comes to the integrity of a gun barrel, I don't think there is such a thing as being "too safe". I know and have heard of other people making cannons from junkyard steel and other things but, even though they are (mostly) still alive, that's not MY way. (Maybe that's why I work in engineering for a major hydro-electric company

None of my designs have failed yet

)

DD: Why "sweat the response"? I'm old enough NOBODY wants to see ME nekkid! :shock:

Thanks for the suggestion of white oak. I jist made up me wood list today 'n' I'll see if I kin find any.

Glad yer all enjoyin the pictures! I'll have some new ones next week.

I started turning the barrel today - 24" long, 45 minutes per pass - Thank Gawd fer power feed!

Later fellers!

CJ

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #37 on:** July 26, 2003, 03:42:00 PM »

Jeff B. -

I agree with CJ's perspective on safety. It comes from having seen a cannon explode from a dozen feet away.

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #38 on:** August 01, 2003, 12:32:25 PM »

Got the parallel turnin done t'other day - brought the 4" bronze down to 3.5" diameter.

Spent last evening re-workin the tailstock so I could get 1/2" offset. Got the barrel mounted between centers 'n' a jury-rigged drive so I kin turn the tapered part.

MY LAWRD! With the smallest diameter in the tapered section being 2.5", there was a LOT of material to be removed! I spent 8 hours at the lathe and removed three 6 Quart baskets of shaving. I gave up trying to maintain a nice finish and just went fer BULK!

The rear half of the barrel has had a finish cut and looks pretty good. I still have the front half and the crown to machine but after 8 hours (and wearing ear plugs all day), I'm beat.

Anybody got any ideas on how to get a REALLY nice finish on bronze?

Even with a cut of 0.002", there's still some machining lines. I could use a file . . . .

There'll be new pictures next week.

Calamity (with bronze shavings EVERYWHERE!) Jane

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #39 on:** August 01, 2003, 03:29:15 PM »

The concept of putting a nice finish on any surface is that of reducing the size of the scratches and maintaining a flat surface. Therefore use a hard backing and successively reduce the size of the abrasive. At some point a buffing wheel comes into play, again reducing the size of the abrasive.

Abrasives cut more when dry. Water or oil will slow the cutting and both lubricate and carry off residue.

I've used a pad sander for the rough cutting, then use a board back up and emery cloth/paper and then buffed out with several grades of polishing abrasives.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #40 on:** August 01, 2003, 03:41:40 PM »

And, since the .002 cut is leaving marks (expected), you might consider also a step where you draw file the surface - it should smooth out a LOT of the ridges.

When I made my first beer-can caliber mortar of hot rolled steel, I used abrasive cloth and paper starting with about 120 grit and going to 400. I didn't use a backing block (and it shows). It did look good and I had it bright chrome plated.

Double D · « **Reply #41 on:** August 02, 2003, 01:37:20 PM »

I haven't turned a lot of yellow metal, but it seems to me somewhere I hear you need a radiused pointed tool and fine travel.

But then you could alwauys burnish it.

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #42 on:** August 02, 2003, 03:04:28 PM »

Thanks folks, fer the idears.

Finished the taper turning today 'n' remounted the barrel to turn the crown.

I tried a rounded point tool bit but every time I did, I had trouble with vibration, harmonics, and the most beautful herringbone pattern :shock: A bit ground almost parallel to the work seemed to work best.

Regardless, what I have left will have to be sanded and filed out.

That 4" bronze cylinder is starting to look like a cannon barrel :-D

Later fellers!

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #43 on:** August 03, 2003, 07:15:54 AM »

New pictures up at http://www.geocities.com/diannebest/Cannon/Cannon.html

Now sanding (and for the next coupla of days!) Then comes the fun part - the cascabell :?

CJ

Double D · « **Reply #44 on:** August 03, 2003, 11:11:12 AM »

Looking good, lady, looking good.

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #45 on:** August 05, 2003, 03:44:58 AM »

Whal, whal, I finally finished off the turnin of the barrel 'n' parted it off - some new pix at http://www.geocities.com/diannebest/Cannon/Cannon7.html (fergot ta link this page to me main cannon page - OOPS!)

Got a purdy good finish on the bronze. Made the last cut with a fairly "flat" tool bit (almost square to the werk). then 180 grit paper. The 220, 330, 'n' 400 grit paper seemed ta load up almost instantly so I waz whackin the paper agin the lathe bed every few seconds ta clear the dust. The 180 grit cut fair quick 'n' took out mossa the tool marks.

I took the mandrel 'n' buffer wheel off me upright sander 'n' chucked it in me 1/2 drill. I used some black rouge, then finished with white, buffin while the barrel waz spinnin in the lathe. Didn't werk too bad. Dang thangs so shiny now it's hard to photograph!

I'll give it some more buffing after I finish the cascabel knob and install the trunnions. :-D

Thanks fer the idear of finishing as much as possible before parting it off in the lathe. I parted down to 1/2" diameter before I lost me nerve 'n' finished the cut on the bandsaw. :shock: That bugger's STILL HEAVY! 'N' I waz gettin real nervous about the brass seperatin 'n' sendin that nicely polished barrel flyin 'cross the room!

Nice ta have the turning done - only took 2 weeks :roll:

Now I gotta figger out how I'z gonna fly-cut the recesses fer the trunnions. The trunnion holes are tapped 1" N.F. I'z figgerin on fly-cutting about a 1.25" diameter flat spot on the side of the barrel - guess I'll haffta make a cutter - 'n' turning the trunnions with a shoulder with a threaded bit on one end 'n' the other end cylindrical. I hope I kin make a accurate bushing to thread into the hole to guide the fly-cutter!

Calamity (who's found out brass cuttings is sharp as needles 'n' get inta everythang, specially 'er feet!) Jane

Double D · « **Reply #46 on:** August 05, 2003, 08:35:08 AM »

Lady! Safety! Never machine in you stocking feet!

Wait until you turn one in 4140, stringy, tough chips. No not chips coil springs. Chip breaker didn't mean nothing.

Well you carry on and get the tube up an running.

I'm going to be down for a couple of day as we move from Stafford to Herndon. CW's in charge, so after you went ahead did it andit turned out just fine, He will have to tell you you did it wrong.

CW, I'm going to have to come back down before the summer is over. i have my cannon and a bunch of cannon plans.

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #47 on:** August 05, 2003, 09:57:12 AM »

Yer leavin CW in change??!!

I donno if'n that's such a smart idear . . . don't ferget, this is the feller who's thinkin of building a hand-held cannon! :shock:

Have fun!

CJ

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #48 on:** August 05, 2003, 12:02:59 PM »

I agree, I don't think CW is responsible enough to be in charge of anything!

I did 'finish' the prototype for the small golf-ball caliber hand held cannon. Well, maybe I'll put a shoulder stock on it. Looks good with the cylinder on one end and octagon on the other. Mostly an experiment/exercise in turning 4140.

We'll have to have another event/competition or some such party.

Double D · « **Reply #49 on:** August 09, 2003, 02:27:43 AM »

Leaving CW in charge was a fine idea.

Yeah see, his hand held golf cannon idea is mild. We have association witha fellow that shoots a shoulder fired tin can mortar. I worry that CW will go the next step...shoulder fired bowling ball bazooka!!!

Next week the White oak tree comes down. I have arranged with the local saw mill to make planks. Oh goody I am going to have 8 foot, 2x18 to 20 inch planks...what the heck am I going to do with them?

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #50 on:** August 10, 2003, 01:37:04 AM »

Sounds like the makin's of a carriage ta me, in about 5 years when the wood iz dry. Get 'em ta cut it in thicknesses appropriate fer cheeks 'n' a tail piece :wink:

CJ

Double D · « **Reply #51 on:** August 10, 2003, 03:13:09 PM »

CJ,

Do you have any interst in the late Wm. Green's plans on how to make carriage wheels for Cannons?

Fightin Creek Slim · « **Reply #52 on:** August 12, 2003, 10:13:49 PM »

Howdy Calam:
Hows yer Cannon project coming along? Are you started on yer carriage yet? I seen yer pictures of the barrel work and that bronze six pounder is gonna be impressive. I recon that you'll be making all of your carriage hardware? Are you gonna use oak fer the carriage? Also are you Gonna build a limber to go along with the carriage. I'm very impressed with this project CJ.

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #53 on:** August 13, 2003, 02:52:50 AM »

Howdy boyz!

Thanks fer the offer DD but I got me plans from Dixie Gun Works 'n' they got all the info I need. I AIN'T gonna try ta do the wheels meself - got a friend whos an experienced wheelwright 'n' ya gotta be a better carpenter than I iz!

Slim: it's been on hold fer a few days while I been doin "hafftas". Got back at it fer a hour or so last night but me cutter to make the counterbores for the trunnions wasn't rugged nuff 'n' ain't gonna werk. Gonna try sommit different.

Yup, plannin on makin all the carriage hardware to. Picked up an old forge 'n' in the process of learnin smithing. Done lossa werk with a torch but never smithed before. Unfortunately its been VERY HOT up here fer a couppla weeks now 'n' I got no interest in firing up the forge when it's 95 degrees!

I'll be usin Oak fer the carriage, white oak if I kin find it. The limber will be a future project.

CJ

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #54 on:** August 13, 2003, 11:52:49 AM »

More pix up at the ol' home page http://www.geocities.com/diannebest/Cannon/Cannon.html counterborin fer the trunnions.

CJ

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #55 on:** August 14, 2003, 02:48:08 PM »

CJ -

Good pix. The outline of the book is growing.

I was reading through the N-SSA requirements for steel liners (for cannon used in competition) - they don't specify anything more than 'steel' and 3/8" wall thickness with some mention of additional specifications of thicknesses of bronze/brass/CI around breech.

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #56 on:** August 15, 2003, 07:15:15 AM »

CW:

Yup, seen that to. With a 1" bore 'n' a 1/2" of steel wall thinkness, I don't think she'll blow up. :shock:

Now I gotta figger out what I'z gonna do fer me trunnions! :roll: :?:

The barrel (bronze) was drilled and tapped 1"NF before the liner waz pushed in. The barrel waz then taper-turned and a 1.5" diameter counterbore waz machined around the 1" threaded hole to seat the trunnions. After all the machining, the threaded portion is only 0.55" long.

Last night I machined a couppla "washer" from bronze 1/2" thick 'n' a close match to the counterbore hole (nicely radiused on the outside corners) to serve as the bosses on the trunnions.

(The original plan was to turn the 1" diameter trunnions with a 1.5" diameter shoulder on them 'n' thread 'em into the barrel. When I realized I weren't gonna be able to get the counterbore EXACTLY centered on the hole, I decided to make the trunnions in two pieces.

Since I'z only got 1/2" of thread 'n' 1/2" washer thickness, I'z really scratchin me head over how to finish the trunnions....

I could make 'em outta steel, which would be a whole lot stronger :grin: but would also be visible :cry: Or, I could use a steel stud screwed into the barrel, passing thru the washer, 'n' screwed into the trunnion. Or I could jist go ahead 'n' make the trunnions from the bronze I got left.

No matter which I do, I figger I'll fill the counterbore 'n' the center of the "washer" with industrial epoxy when I put 'er tagether. That'll fill all the little imperfections between the parts 'n' enhance the strength a bit (as well as keepin moisture 'n' dirt out).

Anybody else got any suggestions?

Calamity (who'll be trunnion-makin tanight) Jane

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #57 on:** August 15, 2003, 03:03:14 PM »

Let me see if I've got this right, 1 inch diameter trunion threaded .55 deep with the boss 1-1/2 inches in diameter and 1/2 inch thick fitting into a counterbore of some depth.

Here's a thought. How about MIG welding them on? That gives more support to the trunions going through them and would give nice fillets where the tyw cylinders meet. The thread depth of .55 inch isn't bad from tensile strength, but that's only part of the picture. So MIG weld the trunions to the bosses too. You're welding on the bronze - but it's the steel that gives you the strenght. Then too, you could cut the trunion and the boss in one piece (one for each side and thread it in and MIG weld it. That would give you a wide support.

It seems to me that more than three or four threads deep gives one plenty of strength and more than 1/2 or 3/4 times the diameter in length doesn't add much at all. Take a look at the ratio of the thickness of a nut compared to the diameter of the threaded fastener to which it's attached.

Just my tuppence worth.

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #58 on:** August 16, 2003, 01:49:39 PM »

Ok ya cannon experts, I got a question fer ya:

What do I do for a fuse hole liner?

The fuse hole of 3/8" diameter, tapped NC, and about 2.75" deep. The liner is steel and the barrel is bronze.

Common wisdom is to line the hole with a nonferrous tube.

I'd like ta end up with cap ignition 'cause fuse is hard ta find here.

I kin thread a piece of 5/16 copper tube, but it doesn't leave much wall thickness and the I.D. is larger than I want. I don't have much confidence that I can drill a fine hole almost 3" deep and stay on center.

To ensure it doesn't freeze in place, I should probably drill out some of the threads (leaving 1/2" or so of threads at the bottom) and make the liner with only a threaded end. The top of the liner should have a flange or something to retain the "striker" as well as internal threads for the nipple and a "head" or a screwdriver slot to allow its removal.

Prec. nipples are a metric thread, aren't they?

Com'on fellers! I know somebody out thar iz fulla great idears!

CJ

PS: The trunnions are done and installed

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #59 on:** August 16, 2003, 04:17:39 PM »

Well.

Since I don't really KNOW what the liner is supposed to do, let me guess.
(I've never built a lined cannon barrel before - just 4140 in one piece.)

If the liner is to handle pressure, then steel is in order.
If the liner is to provide abrasion/corrosion resistance then steel or something replaceable.

So how about stainless steel?

What about a two piece liner - the larger part threaded in permanently with a replaceable liner - perhaps like the replaceable inserts in drilll bushings.

Off to Minneapolis for a week.