Author Topic: Whar iz everybody? (Read 20700 times)

Fightin Creek Slim · « **Reply #60 on:** August 16, 2003, 05:51:26 PM »

Calamity:
Let me take a day or two to think on this one and I'll get back to this thread. Since you mentioned percussion cap ignition I'll try to come up with something that works well with a cannon lock. Are you using a CAD program? And if you are which one? I may be able to come up with a CAD drawing for you. I'm thinking stainless steel for this application for better durability. If you have a mini lathe in your shop boring out this piece wouldn't be that difficult. I'm able to get cannon fuse from a local distributer and I can check with him for a source of supply. I don't know how much hassle it would be with shipping regulations on fuse into Canada. This particular fuse is of very good quality so it could also be an option. I'm thinking in terms of a cannon vent that could be interchanged to work with either fuse or a cannon lock.

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #61 on:** August 16, 2003, 06:31:19 PM »

Whal thank'e Slim!

I use AutoDesk's AutoCAD LT but we got just about everything in the office.

I don't have a mini-lathe, just a WW2 war time lathe that's seen better days

As far as fuse goes, it is hard to ship in Canada because Canadian carriers wont touch "explosives". I do have friends down in Grand Forks and get across the line regular - hadn't thought of that.

CJ

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #62 on:** August 17, 2003, 12:49:55 AM »

FCS & CJ -

AutoCAD LT will handle (display, manipulate) all the entities of the heavy AutoCAD, it just doesn't have the AutoLISP engine which drives the 3d commands (routines) which generate the 3d entities.

So, that will enable y'all to share the design if drawin up in 3d right in AC.

On another note, I'd love to have a set of the drawings to post for others' viewing pleasure.

Sounds like a great joint venture going on here!

Double D · « **Reply #63 on:** August 17, 2003, 01:30:28 AM »

Well, a #2 Pencil and a lined tablet are good enough for me for drawing...

the Vent liner is to keep the powder gasses and fouling from gettin between the barrel liner and outside tube and starting corrosion..

Stainless will work but the so should copper or brass.

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #64 on:** August 18, 2003, 09:48:17 AM »

Doncha worry 'bout it - made a caplock today 'n' it works fine!

The barrel is DONE 'cept fer a final polish 'n' sommit ta seal it agin finner prints.

Brasso seems to give a nice finish (until I ran out) but I want to coat it with something to keep that beautiful shine!

I have polished brass fittings for steam engines and given them a coat of nitrocelulose laquer (like I use on musical instruments) - it's crystal clear, hard as glass, and seems to take the heat well. I just don't know if I should try it on the cannon barrel or give the barrel a coat of Turtle Wax?? :?

Whaddaya think?

BTW, the barrel has quite a voice when I pop a cap - I can't wait to hear it with a powder charge!!! :mrgreen:

On that topic, I have seen "2 Oz. of powder per inch of bore diameter; reduce 50% with a projectile" mentioned in some of the reenacting stuff.

Is that an accepted "rule of thumb"? It that Fluid Onces or Avopodrous (sp?) Ounces?

Calamity (1/5-pounder) Jane

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #65 on:** September 01, 2003, 03:59:02 PM »

Well I don't know what Y'ALL did this labor day weekend, but I LABORED on fitting up trunions and bases on golf-ball and beer-can caliber mortars!

Good experience with the milling machine boring out the holes about 3 to 5 thou so the trunions would fit into the bases. Next comes polishing and assembling some 15 mortars and off to the gun show!

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-4/82347/FOANFOFUHXBXZZJNUWBP-20030416_02.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-1/82347/BTRPK[CORUINEKJDKTLN-Can%20Coehorn%20Mortar%202.jpg

(tried twice - the brace "[" interrupts the URL above - cut and paste it - it works.)

The kitten (now 1 year old) is Blackberry (mother's name Peaches)

Double D · « **Reply #66 on:** September 01, 2003, 04:27:35 PM »

I know we covered the weight thing last week. I know becasue what I posted first was wrong and I had correct it. It doesn't bother me that I had to correct what I wrote. It bothers me that some one might have read the wrong posting and not seen the correction.

Anyway go to the top of the forum and look at the sticky on determining charges.

It is by weight 16 oz. to the pound.

The national afety rules says a maximum load 2 oz per inch of bore. It doesn't say reduce for projectile. It says don't exceed.

If you want to start with 50% and work up, by all mean do so.

I also recall you mentioning patching the slug. Cannon slugs are not patched, the are bare. Cannon slugs are to difficult if not almost impossible to seat properly with a patch and are dangerous. If you somehow mange to get a patched slug down the bore of a cannon you will play the devil getting it out if you have squib.

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #67 on:** September 02, 2003, 04:30:00 AM »

Seein as how me cannon's bore is 1", I measured out 7000/16x1 or 437.5 grains (by weight) of powder . . .

HOLY SH!# That's a LOT of powder!!!! [/size]

(It also happened that it measured EXACTLY 1 Fl. Ounce when I checked it in a graduate.)

That's downright SCARY!

Do ya use a form or sommit ta shape yer baggie 'n' foil charges to the right dameter?

Lookin at the size of them charges, me next project is a temporary magazine fer carryin charges. HOLY SH!# THEY'RE BIG!!!

Calamity (lookin ta invest in a Blackpowder company) Jane[/b]

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #68 on:** September 03, 2003, 02:32:14 PM »

CJ -
There are some that will wrap the powder charge in a couple of layers of aluminum foil. When loading, pierce with the gunner's pick and insert the fuse or otherwise prime.

There also is a scoop - open on the top, long and narrow - rotate 180 degrees to dump when the scoop (looong handled) is in place.

I've seen some use a dowel to wrap the foil around to makeup the charge.

Isn't that amazing - one ounce av. = one ounce fluid for blackpowder - what grade was that? Fg or Cannon?

Double D · « **Reply #69 on:** September 03, 2003, 03:50:04 PM »

If you put the powder in a graduate to measure the powder you are volume measuring. If you put three different grades of powder in that graduate and measure 1 oz out and put each on a balance you will have three different weights.

You want the same weight as one oz of water not the same volume.

I just found a stack of Muzzle loading artileryman Magazines, Right on top was the Summer 1984 Edition with article on make charges. I will drop a line to Peter Jorgerson to get permission to scan and post this article.

DD

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #70 on:** September 03, 2003, 04:53:23 PM »

DD -
Exactly. That was the thinking behind my question. As anything graduated in fluid ounces would be so calibrated for fluid ounces of water.

SO, if by chance one grade of powder measured by that volume happened to weigh one ounce, I want to know WHICH grade, because the other grades will weigh more or less, for the same volume.

Double D · « **Reply #71 on:** September 04, 2003, 08:23:58 AM »

Use a scale or balance and not a graduate to weigh powder for a cannon.

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #72 on:** September 04, 2003, 03:33:40 PM »

Put yer glasses on Double D -

Quote

I measured out 7000/16x1 or 437.5 grains (by weight) of powder . . .

'n' then measured the volume as a experiment.

The powder I weighed was Elephant FFG 'cause I didn't have any coarser powder at the time 'n' I wanted ta get an idea of the volume so I could make a powder charge makin block. Obviously Elephant FFG powder is almost exactly the same density as water.

I now have 3 pounds of FG which is what I intend ta use (seein as how me cannon is the same bore as a 5 Ga shotgun 'n' coarser powder ain't ta be had up here).

I will repeat the weight-to-volume experiment because it is easier to measure out mutliple charges by volume.

(Ya know that yer smokeless powder measure acually measures out volume, doncha? But that's ok 'cause ya calibrate it by weight.)

I'z gonna package me charges in baggies and tin foil, same as the big gun fellers do 'cause I don't like havin large volumes of Black sittin around loose. Gonna make a temporary magazine tomorrie so I kin pre-measure a few charges for proof testing.

The barrel is complete, the percussion lock is complete, and I have made all me loading and cleaning tools. I made a temporary carriage to use for test firing and I'll do a few "ignition tests" in the yard to veryify the percussion lock will ignite the main charge. If that werks good and the weather permits, I'll haul it out to the range on Sunday and do the proofing.

Just picked up the oak a couppla days ago - gonna look NICE!

CJ

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #73 on:** September 04, 2003, 03:43:15 PM »

BTW: I reamed the bore to 1.015 to allow for patching. The balls also measure (as cast) 0.996", so the patching would not be tight.

I know that full size cannons aren't patched but, as far as I know, they are not shooting a lead ball. BP rifles (up into the 0.68" range) do shoot patched balls. So I am somewhere inbetween (actually closer to big bore rifles than full-size cannons).

I'll probably try both. I suspect that a patched ball will give better accuracy, unless the ball upsets enough to fill the bore without a patch.

CJ

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #74 on:** September 04, 2003, 04:21:52 PM »

We're all looking forward to the accuracy trials.

Has anyone used a chronograph with their cannon. (A little bit tough to place the chrono screens for the mortar.) I would think that the muzzle blast would be highly significant.

So place your bets - who can predict with the closest accuracy what combination of powder and ball will produce what velocity, accuracy and range!

DD - you've got my interest peaked on measuring by volume vs weighing. I would think that weighing is by far the safest way, but I'm still wondering if repeatablility (with one grade and one brand of powder) couldn't be achieved in volumetric measurements.

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #75 on:** September 05, 2003, 02:02:21 AM »

Quote

but I'm still wondering if repeatablility (with one grade and one brand of powder) couldn't be achieved in volumetric measurements.

Of course it can and it's done all the time in smokeless powders. You set your powder measure (which meters out a specific volume) so that it throws a volume that gives the desired weight. After that, charges are dispensed from the measure (by volume) with only a periodic re-check of the charge weight to ensure nothing has changed. That's the way reloaders have been charging cases fer many decades.

The only smokleless reloaders I know who weigh every charge are the extreme accuracy nuts like benchrest shooters.

When you get to Blackpowder rifle and pistol shooting, things are less straight forward because #1 - blackpowder is hydroscopic (picks up moisture) and #2 - most all BP shooters are more concerned with volume than weight.

I'z been shootin BP competatively fer the last couppla years 'n' the hydroscopic nature sure shows up big time! In the spring (after a long dry Manitoba winter), my shotshells and my 20g (by volume) FFFG loads in my 1858 Remingtons have LOTS of zip. By mid summer and after a few months of higher humidity, my shotshells are getting purdy enemic 'n' I go to 40g (by volume) of FFFG in my pistols, which brings the muzzle velocity back to that with dry powder. Fer me BP cartridges (44-40), which are effectively "sealed" when the boolit is seated, I try to limit my reloading to mid to late winter when the powder has been sitting in the dry house for a couple of months.

For BP rifles and pistols, most everyone uses a VOLUME measure that is calibrated in "grains" - unfortunate that they used the same term! These measures are available at any muzzleloading store and front-stuffer shooters don't worry about weight, only volume. The "conversion" from grains-weight to grains-volume comes from a SAAMI standard (Sporting Arms Manufacturers Institute, or sommitlike that), but I don't remember the number.

Since BP seems to have about the same density as water and is highly hydroscopic, neither weight nor volume will give the same effective charge as the dampness of the powder changes. A given volume of "humid" powder will have less kick than dry powder. If you weigh the charges, you are also weightin the water in the powder so I suspect that damp powder of the same weight would be a slightly smaller volume (unless the grains swell, which I don't know).

Their have been many lively discussions of weight VS volume on the Blackpowder bulletin boards!

CJ

savageT · « **Reply #76 on:** September 05, 2003, 02:42:25 AM »

Hey CJ,
Forgive me for the correction......but the word is "hygroscopic", not hydroscopic as in "to absorb moisture from the air".

Jim

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #77 on:** September 05, 2003, 10:08:27 AM »

Thank'e savage, I stand (sit?) corrected!

"Hygroscopic"? Humm Hy-gro (as in get bigger) - scopic. I'll try ta remember that.

I always thought it was "HYDROscopic" from the Greek werd "hydra" for water?

Thanks agin!

Calamity (who seldom meets anybody bold nuff ta correct 'er) Jane :wink:

Double D · « **Reply #78 on:** September 05, 2003, 11:41:54 AM »

CW,

To answer your question...What CJ said, except don't use her water powered load, try her water absorbing loads...

DD

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #79 on:** September 05, 2003, 01:03:30 PM »

DD: :-D

BTW I jist packaged up some Curtiss & Harvey FG powder and 437.5 grains weighed out on my RCBS 1010 scale (1 Ounce avpd) is jist a hair shy of 1 fluid Ounce.

I put up 2 each of 1 Ounce, 3/4 Ounce, and 1/2 Ounce (tied off in a baggie and double wrapped with aluminum foil). After lookin at 'em, I think I'll call 'em "cannon sausages" :shock:

If all goes well, I'll set up the barrel outside tomorrow in its test stand and see if my cap lock is gonna work.

I'm still tryin ta figger how I'm gonna get a picture of it withoutputting anyone in harm's way....

CJ

savageT · « **Reply #80 on:** September 05, 2003, 01:08:52 PM »

Het CJ!
Do you know anyone that has a camcorder with remote control? You could set it on a tripod and start the camera and touch 'er off! Guess you could always do it w/o the remote control too.

Jim

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #81 on:** September 05, 2003, 01:24:16 PM »

Having seen a cannon explode, when it let go pieces left in directions perpendicular to the barrel. Most went up and to both sides. the only piece left was the breach - with half a touch hole and the spherical end of the bore. Hence the five of us standing behind it were relatively safe. Therefore I recommend being behind the piece when you fire it.

Double D · « **Reply #82 on:** September 05, 2003, 04:06:26 PM »

CJ,

We want pictures, posted here tomorrow night if you are digitally inclined!

ain't nothing gonna blow! you followed our instructions to the letter.

Those charges should come out the same diameter as the inside of you barrel.

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #83 on:** September 06, 2003, 01:42:46 AM »

Quote

Having seen a cannon explode

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

?

What's yer point?

?? :eek:

Ya shorenuff know how ta give a gal confidence!

I got the camcorder ready to go 'n' me little HP 320 will also do video clips so I will have both of them running. I jist ain't sure how to post a video clip and I'm gonna haffta find somebody who can convert a VHS to something I kin post (not to mention I am running out of megabits on me Web page).

It's jist comin on 7 a.m. here so I'll start settin up in about an hour. No point scarin the neighbours before 9 a.m. :wink:

More to come later today.....

CJ

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #84 on:** September 06, 2003, 01:54:14 AM »

YOU'RE the one who is raising questions of proof testing and then talking in terms of 7000 grains of powder! (Maybe I missed a step inbetween.)

Have you thought of wearing both earplugs and ear muffs too?
You'll know it's loud when your eardurms meet in the middle.

And, as long as I'm raising questions of safety, is there plenty of distance down range and have you notified the nearest air traffic controller to clear the airspace in the vicinity for an hour before and after?

Do take notes of how much powder, bullet weight, velocity 10-20 feet from the muzzle and either the range attained or the number of NYC phone books penetrated.

Good luck!

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #85 on:** September 06, 2003, 05:58:04 AM »

OH MY! [/size]

This morning (2003/09/06) was cool and foggy but I went ahead and set up the VHS camera and my little HP digital camera. The barrel was set on the test stand and charged with a 1/2 Ounce foil-wrapped charge. The charge was picked, a CCI #10 cap was set, and the lanyard was pulled.

The cap fired, but the main charge didn't! A repeat attempt also failed to ingite the main charge!

When I pulled the charge, I found that, because my vent opens into the breech very close to the plug, the pick did not puncture the charge bag and the blast was dissipated on the outside of the foil. I cut the end of the foil off and reloaded the charge.

This time it worked!

OH MY does she ever have a sweet voice! It definately SOUNDS like a cannon!

The test was repeated with a 3/4 Ounce charge and a 1 Ounce charge. For a little 1" bore, with a 1 Ounce charge, she definately speaks with authority!

There's a couppla video clips and an audio clip over at http://www.geocities.com/winnonad

Oh my oh my oh my! I jist fell in love with me cannon - WHAT A SWEET SOUND!

Next step, taking it to the range and firing some round balls.... :-D

CJ

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #86 on:** September 06, 2003, 10:37:16 AM »

SHAZAM!

Proverbs says a desire fulfilled is sweet to the soul....

I'm still waiting in line for the video.

Double D · « **Reply #87 on:** September 06, 2003, 12:01:55 PM »

What where you using for bullets?

When do you start on your next one!!

You are hooked now aren't you?

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #88 on:** September 06, 2003, 01:27:51 PM »

Quote

What where you using for bullets?

Nuthin; shootin blanks. Only got a mile "down range" 'n' no backstop so I wouldn't dare shoot a ball.

Bought a 1" ball mould 'n' got a dozen cast fer the first "live fire" tests.

Quote

When do you start on your next one!!

Whal, I still got a carriage 'n' limber ta build.

Quote

You are hooked now aren't you?

$#@#$@$% %#$% ^&%^#$ danged cannons! Last thang I needed waz nuther addiction! :shock:

I really hate to admit this (as it may point to a future problem) but I been re-playin that audio clip all afternoon. Thar's jist sommit 'bout the sound of cannon fire! It's kind of lost in the audio clip, but that deep-throated BOOM echoes back off the trees and jist kind o' rolls around, back 'n' forth 'cross the fields 'n' takes near ferever ta die away.

What a sweet sound! .... fer a "gunner", but probably not a sentement shared by infantry :eek:

CJ

Double D · « **Reply #89 on:** September 06, 2003, 01:44:22 PM »

Well let us know what the next one will be.

I have the plans for the 1841 Cairo a navel gun and then of course the Mortar plans!!!