More proof Al Gore is out in left field

[Leatherstocking]

Leather stocking do you find it Hypocritical that ALGORE uses many many times the energy as the average citizen? Isn't ALGORE one of the causes of this "global warming" problem? How about you? Being that you know that this is a problem have you stopped emitting carbons? Don't tell us it can't be done as for most of the history of man we did not use fossil fuels. Are you going to lead by example? What caused the last ice age? Minnesota was almost completely covered by a Glacier, hmmm mastodon farts?  The earths climate has changed over the billions of years it has been here. This is not a movement to save the climate from changing, it is a movement to change a society into something more controlled and controlable.

I don't find it hypocritical. It is a societal issue and can only be dealt with as such. Although I agree that individuals must participate, the issue is bigger than any individual's impact. I do what I can, probably not enough. Wish I could do more (such as drive a more fuel efficient vehicle, but I need a truck for a variety of reasons - fortunately I have a very short drive to work so I don't burn alot of gas)

ironglow - it is interesting that you note that there have been minimal hurricanes for 3-4 years. Seems to me that is too short a timeframe to look at (which is one of the same arguments used by folks to debate against climate change (ie. can't only look at the last few hundred years or so because climate change happens over a longer period). By the same logic I would think that only 3-4 years of no hurricanes is not an indication that rapid climate change is not occurring. I agree with you about the Kennedys fighting to keep wind farms off Cape Cod. THAT is hypocritical!!

And to magooch - you are correct. We WILL be heavily dependent on fossil fuels for a long time. But the path toward having some renewables in the mix, as appropriate, must begin sometime. Why not now?

[ironglow]

Leatherstocking..I agree it is a short time frame..but it was not I that was making the wild predictions; it was the "eco-freaks" doing that !
  Did you even notice that within a couple months after the hurricanes did not transpire..the "eco-freaks" immediately changed their dire
  predictions...only to end up with egg on their collective faces..
  Get real; according to the eco-freaks:
   
   If there are floods..              its because of "global warming".
   If   there  is  drought              "      "        "     "        "
   If there are high winds            "      "       "     "         "
   If there are no winds              "        "      "     "         "
   If there is a heat wave           "        "      "     "         "
   If there is a cold wave            "       "       "     "         "
   If there is fog in the valley      "       "       "      "         "
   If there's no fog in the valley  "       "       "      "         "
   If the polar caps are melting    "      "       "      "         "
   If the polar caps are freezing   "      "       "      "         "
   If northern lights are seen       "      "       "      "         "
   If northern lights are not seen "       "       "     "         "
   If there's a January thaw        "      "        "     "         "
   If there's no January thaw      "      "       "      "         "

   Do we get the pattern ?
      Anyone can make such wild claims...it just takes a crook to make $$$  from it by delivering costly speeches and selling "carbon footprint points" to
   gullible idiots.

    Many of the people who are involved in the Eco movement are not Christian and are against anything that is Christian, since they worship at the
   secular, green church of "Holy Ecology". That being said, many of them are very quick to point out Christian hypocrisy !
   If a Christian leader is found to be a drunk, a womanizer, a gambler, or involved in any other sin contrary to Christian values, they are fast to point
   it out..and rightly so.
        If Al Gore..the pope of the Eco-movement is wasting fossil fuel, polluting the air more than most of us and being hypocritical about the Eco-creed,
  shouldn't that be pointed out ?
   Most Christian groups, faced with a leader that ignores the tenets of the faith..will fire that leader, or at least require him/her to step down and go
  through rehab and get their head straight !
      Shouldn't the Eco-religion movement be just as responsive to hypocrites within their own leadership ?

[woodchukhntr]

Ironglow,

You had better stop making sense like that.  That is intolerant speech directed toward ecoism (the eco-freak religion), and could get you in trouble with the tolerance police.

[Leatherstocking]

That's the first time I ever heard of an analogy between religion and ecology. I have never known of an "eco-religion movement". There is science and there is religion. I am a scientist. And I am a Christian. Contrary to what some may think, it is easy to be both. But I don't think you can put the two together as you are suggesting.

[woodchukhntr]

Do a search on "ecology religion", "ecoreligion", and similar topics.  This is the mother earth  group, New Agers, modern pagans, people who worship the creation, not the creator.

You are correct when you say that it is easy to be both a Christian and a scientist.  My church held a "God of Wonders" seminar a couple of years back with doctors, scientists, and a Dr. of music.  It was great.  One of our Sunday school teachers is one of the few Christian psychiatrists in existance.

[ironglow]

Leatherstocking;
   I will take your question as an honest inquiry..
   There has been a recent rise in neo-paganism. Neo-paganism has it's own pantheon of gods. One of the chief gods is not a god..but a goddess; named Gaia.
  There is reason for many to believe that some of the leading eco leaders actually worship Gaia.
      The cult of ecology has its own priests (local) and top Gurus..such as Ted Turner and Al Gore. the religion has such things as the medieval Roman church
  had for repentance and so-called "absolution" for sins...the medieval church called it "indulgences" while the church of Eco worship calls theirs, " carbon offsets"..

   One could go on and on with the similarities such as each has their dogma (e.g. global warming), prophets ( Al Gore, Ted Turner), Holy Books ( Earth in the Balance, An Inconvenient truth), indulgences (carbon offsets), both are/were land-hungry, High Holy days (Earth Day), Martyrs (Silkwood, Bronkavich), evangelism (need I note?),
    Exclusivism is a watchword.."we have the truth, the whole truth and we won't listen to anyone but our leaders..like Pope Algore..

         The pagan spiritual elements are also in evidence..   www.usasurvival.org/cultofgaia.html          http://contenderministries.org/UN/gaia.php

               You can do your own research..just do a Google or Yahoo search for        <Al Gore, Gaia  >   <  Ted Turner, Gaia >

    You can look up that cartoon for kids that was developed by Ted Turner..called Captain Planet .   In Captain Planet, your kids will be taught that the goddess Gaia has
  awakened from a centuries long sleep, and is enlistiung your kids and mine ..to save the planet.   Look it up in Wikipedia...

   What we have is a cult of neo-pagans that dislike Christianity and by inference, the USA. Surely you have heard some of the Gaia Gurus slam both Christianity and the USA...even while travelling abroad.       

[Leatherstocking]

OK - I guess I never have seen the connection or paid that much attention. My wife says I live in a cave! Maybe I do, but I think in some ways it's better. I have enough to do taking care of my own family, work, etc, that I don't pay much heed to any extremist groups. Unless of course I see some way they may do harm to me or my family or way of life (ie. hunting, fishing, etc).

[ironglow]

 

  I can understand that Leatherstocking; some groups can do a great job of running under the radar..

   Say; do you live in leatherstocking country ?
 
   There is some beautiful country between myself and yourself.the finger lakes and Leatherstocking country..

[Leatherstocking]

I live in the Hudson Valley (Dutchess County) now, but I grew up in the central leatherstocking region and still do most of my hunting there (Otsego County), not far from Cooperstown), home of James Fenimore Cooper, author of the Leatherstocking Tales, novels about the greatest hunter and outdoorsman that ever "lived" ... Natty Bumppo, AKA Deerslayer, AKA Hawkeye, and AKA the Leatherstocking. I figured I would explain all of that because I'll bet there are lots of folks who are not familiar with the term and probably just figured I am some weirdo that likes to wear leather stockings!!  And yes, it is beautiful country. If I didn't have a good job (and a wife who would rather not move) I'd be back up there in a heartbeat.

[ironglow]

  Great country and great stories, Leatherstocking !

  Unfortunately, there are many people across the country that view NY State as being like NY City..nothing could be farther from the truth !
   The state is not at all like the "concrete jungle" some folks imagine it to be. The bulk of our population in NY is in the 6 cities (metro areas) ..
   NY City, Albany, Utica, Syracuse, Rochester and Buffalo..and unfortunately those crowded areas elect our governors and senators.   
     There is some truly beautiful and often remote areas in the remainder of our state.

   The story about "The Last of the Mohicans" took place in leatherstocking country; I don't know where the most recent film of the same name,
  starring Russell Means was made..but it is very much like the area framed by the story. It LOOKED like Leatherstocking country..

[woodchukhntr]

I live near Utica, still in Leatherstocking Country.  Although not as big as Syracuse, Utica still has it's share of city problems and I wouldn't want to live in it.  All of the cities in New York State vote Democrat.  The only thing that saves us is that the rural areas vote Republican.

Now if we could only saw New York City off and give it a push into the ocean!!!!!!!!

[ncsurveyor]

Now if we could only saw New York City off and give it a push into the ocean!!!!!!!!

Make it a district, like DC.

Hey, I think I got something there.

District of Chicago
District of New York
District of LA.

Hmmmmmm

[Dixie Dude]

From what the Discovery channel has shown.  The Artic ice is melting about 200 miles from the northern coast of Alaska and Canada where it used to be about 50 miles.  Also, a scientist in Denmark has stated that we are not getting enough cosmic radiation because of excessive solar flares in recent years pushing the cosmic rays away from earth.  This causes warming because the cosmic rays produced more clouds which cools the earth.  He said this had more to do with global warming than anything man has caused.  But this scientist has been ridiculed, even though he has produced the effects in a lab to prove it.  The environmental wackos don't want to listen to reason, they just want to push their agenda.  They want everyone to live in a small home, drive an electric car, use alternative fuels, etc.  This is all well and good, but in order to have a higher standard of living, we have to have a lot of power and energy.  I believe in preserving the environment, but not at the expense of modern living.  I think we can have both, but it will require listening on all sides and come to the best solutions.  Oh, The Last of the Mohicans was filmed in North Carolina. 

[woodchukhntr]

At least it wasn't filmed in China with Chinese "indians".

Don't forget evolution, the sacred cow of the environmental, etc. crowd.  They ridicule those who believe in the creation, but have more faith in their unproven theory than many Christians do.

[ironglow]

  Solar flares have much more to do with global warming..or cooling than anything we do; but there is no way a crooked politician can gain  donations or political power by blaming the sun! ...LOL
   This global warming masquerade is  just anothertrumped up way to attempt a political advantage. Unfortunately; so much of the mass media is in the global warming corner,
     spreading the "party line' disinformation..that some  leaders who know much better, still have to offer token "lip service' to the gullibles..
 
   You will note; the left only takes up causes where they can use that cause as a political club ! In many homes, radon is a challenge and
  a danger..but the environuts won't even mention that..because radon is a naturally occurring pheonomenon.
   Radon cannot be blamed upon industry, guns, SUVs, smoking, Christians or conservatives..so the libs don't bother with it, even though it is a threat !
   No political hay to be made..
 
    Arctic ice IS melting..so the media lib propagandists send someone up there to show the fact and relish it..
   Simultaneously,the western ice shelf in Antartica, is growing faster than the arctic one is melting..but the media propagandists are strangely silent about that...
   They are very selective..they show places where melt is occurring..and refuse to take even small note where things are freezing...

  Dixie Dude..I think we can have both without destroying the environment..GW (global warming) is just a political hammer.
   Last of Mohicans Filmed in NC ? Some beautiful country there also...

  Woodchukhntr..I agree..if we could give all of NYC and environs to New Jersey (assuming they may take it)..we would have one of the best states of the 50;
   especially for outdoor sports..
    

[Leatherstocking]

First off, let me just say that this has been a really fun thread!! We have had our differences but noone has gotten ugly. As for Last of the Mohicans, it kills me that it wasn't filmed in NY (just kidding, the Carolina's are nice - I spent a year there one summer - good thing that was BEFORE global warming! Man it was hot!). On a serious note, and back to the topic of this thread, the bottom line for me is that regardless of the motives, I do believe it does us all good to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels, particularly foreign oil. If it takes a bunch of radical enviros to help get us there, so be it. It's where we should be headed, regardless of the reason.

[deltecs]

First off, let me just say that this has been a really fun thread!! We have had our differences but noone has gotten ugly. As for Last of the Mohicans, it kills me that it wasn't filmed in NY (just kidding, the Carolina's are nice - I spent a year there one summer - good thing that was BEFORE global warming! Man it was hot!). On a serious note, and back to the topic of this thread, the bottom line for me is that regardless of the motives, I do believe it does us all good to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels, particularly foreign oil. If it takes a bunch of radical enviros to help get us there, so be it. It's where we should be headed, regardless of the reason.

I grew up in NW Pa in the highest city in the state about 30 miles from the NY Border in the Allegheny Mts.  All that country is Leatherstocking type.  I agree with the principal of major reduction on oil dependency.  It must be tempered with conservations concepts instead of preservation so the cost of this transition is not excessive.  Also, the major differences in concepts is Americans want to use these energy reductions because it will give them a better standard of living, not because it costs more because of legislation requiring it.  That is the worst way to reduce dependency as it keeps costs high without competition.  The more variable types of energy available to the consumer, the cheaper per KW or BTU or energy will cost due this competition.  Enviros want to mandate the type of energy used, and definitely no nuclear, which I think is mandatory.

[ironglow]

Deltecs;
  I live about 30 miles north of the NY/PA line..LOL..probably on the northern edge of the same mountain group you are in. Still that same type country..
   Mt Jewett, Kane, Ridgeway, St Marys and Johnsonburg are all up there in elevation..nice country.

[deltecs]

I grew up in Kane.  Lived there for about 10 years before my folks moved to Millcreek outside of Erie.  Went to college at Edinboro College.  Moved to Alaska myself in 1969 and love it.  The country around the Allegheny Mts and along the Appalachians is beautiful.  It is the politics within its States, I dislike.  The rural areas are down to earth people with logical conclusions and common sense.  The urban areas are liberal minded, emotional in their decision making, and control State government.  Too bad.  I would not relocate from Alaska to anywhere in the US.  It too is beautiful and an individual can make a difference here. 

[ironglow]

  Bingo ! ..Deltecs..Your assessment of the city vs country is true here as well..

   I have family in the Fairbanks and Anchorage areas..that is outside those cities..and they love it..