Author Topic: 338 federal  (Read 5556 times)

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Offline trkyman1

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338 federal
« on: February 10, 2008, 03:24:48 PM »
Anyone using this caliber? Looking for some in the field experience if anyone has one.

Offline Lone Star

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2008, 04:11:09 AM »
I loaded my .338-06 to .338 Fed factory velocities for many years, and it worked great on deer and caribou.  Bullet selection is important if you handload, most heavy bullets are designed for the .338 Magnums and are a bit too tough for deer at .338 Fed velocities.


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Offline Johnny Reb

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2008, 05:24:18 AM »
I have a 338 Federal barrel for my Encore.  I was able to take a doe with it at about 30 yards this past season, using Federal's 185 grain Barnes TSX.  I shot her through the shoulder, she may have gone 30 yards before she went down for good.  The exit wound was almost the size of a 50 cent piece, which I thought was pretty impressive for such a close range.  I was hoping to be able to take a deer with it at a longer range (100 yds) but I never got the chance. 
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Offline Country Boy

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2008, 01:25:59 PM »
Just a gimmick ! It won't do anything my .358 win won"t do.

Offline Johnny Reb

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2008, 03:27:06 PM »
Will the 338 Federal and the 358 Win. both kill a deer?  Sure they will.  I guess I just like gimmicks, because the way I see it the 338 will do a few things better for me than the 358 would.  For starters, I don't reload, so the 338 is better for me in that it has more factory loads to choose from.  From the ballistics charts that I've seen it appears that the 338 Federal will not only fire a bullet of comparable weight to that of the 358, but in doing so it will have more down range energy, as well as shoot flatter than the 358 Winchester.  In my book those three things make the 338 Federal a better round for me, than the 358 Winchester.
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2008, 07:41:38 PM »
Just like all the others it's a fine cartridge, for deer and other animals in the states.  Just remember that if you ever decide to come to Alaska, and leave it home.  Yes it will kill a Black-tail Deer, or a Caribou.  But what are you going to do when those big Brown fellows decide that is his Caribou and you are a threat to him?  There is just not enough energy there.

Like I said earlier, it is a great cartridge for Deer, Hogs, Black Bear, and everything else you can hunt in the lower 48.  It's all a matter of personal preference.
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2008, 08:23:26 PM »
I just can't understand all this hype about the .338 Federal.   ???  Years ago I had a 338/06 built on a S'field action.  Great round.  It will do anything the Fed will and more!  But it never caught on...  :'(  and the Fed is every bodies darlin'!  I guess, if the Fed is so good, the 338/06 is just to much of a good thing.  I just can't see the need for it myself.  Kinda redundant methinks... sorta like the 358 Win/35 Whelen thing I guess.  Oh wait!!  :o  I've got a 358 Win and a 35 whelen!  But that's different!  I can shoot the same bullet at different velocities!  Or heavier bullets at higher velocities, or different bullets at the same velocities! or... or... :-\  CRUD!  Maybe I need one after all!  ;D
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Offline deltecs

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2008, 11:17:08 PM »
The 338 Federal would work fine in Alasksa for most game.  It isn't the best, but it will do.  You must take into account the limited range for caribou, sheep, goat and maybe deer, but the round is effective within its limits.  I wouldn't worry about a big bruin around a caribou carcass either.  The .338 Federal with 210 gr bullets only has 150 ft/lbs of enegy less than the .300 Win Mag with 180 gr at 2900 fps.  A close shot at a bear would not make enough difference to effect the outcome.  The Federal would probably penetrate further than the .300 in this scenario and may even be the preferred choice between the 2.  The momentum value for the .338 Federal with 210 gr at 2600 fps is 78 lb/ft.   The momentum value of the .300 Win Mag with 180 gr at 2900 fps is 74.5.  Both bullets have relatively the same sectional density, so momentum values will determine penetration.  These are the facts, regardless of what one might believe.
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Greg
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2008, 01:46:49 AM »
Deltecs:  There is a good reason the .338 Federal is not selling in Alaska.  It just is not an Alaskan cartridge.  The .308 is considered inferior for here, so is the .338 Federal.  Most guides require a minimum of a .338 Win Mag to hunt big bears.  And around Caribou carcasses is just where you are going to find Grizzlies.  It is a known fact, shoot a gun anywhere along the coast and the Brownies come running.  They are learning this in the Interior as well.  I have refused guys the privilege of hunting in my camp because they were not carrying what we felt was adequate guns.  .338 Win Mag or .35 Whelen minimum.  .300 Mags aren't coming to my camp either.   I do sometimes carry a 30-06, but I am always accompanied by Norm who carries a .378 Weatherby.  And I am carrying the 06 speciffically for small stuff, coyotes, foxes, or wolves.  I normally carry a .338/378 Weatherby.


Yes it will kill a Caribou or deer, not enough range for sheep or goat.  But way too light for big Bears.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
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Offline deltecs

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2008, 02:51:46 AM »
I don't think I would intentionally target big bear with a .338 Federal, but wouldn't feel under gunned if I had to use one close with heavy bullets.  I live on the coast and use a .243 Win for deer hunting.  But again, there aren't many brown bear right where I hunt.  If I hunted in areas near here that have a lot of bear, I use a bigger bore just in case.  That would be an 06 with 200 plus gr bullets.  I would not hesitate to use a .338-06 with appropriate bullets for any game in NA hunting.  That does mean hunting and not as a guide or hunting with others not as capable or confident.  If I was to target big bear, I'd probably go with something bigger, though not necessarily having more energy.   I agree that with less experienced hunters to Alaska, it would be best to use a bigger gun.
Greg lost his battle with cancer last week on April 2nd 2009. RIP Greg. We miss you.

Greg
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Offline Drilling Man

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2008, 05:59:33 PM »
  I read a road test on the .338 Federal today in Shooting Times Magazine...

  Now, when i was heavy into brown bear hunting i built myself a custom .338-06 and it's worked out very well for me on all kinds of bigger game...

  All of this "Federal" talk has me thinking of digging it out, loading it down a bit, and harvesting a few whitetails with it...

  I've shot a truck load of blk. tails with it,



  but never a whitetail...

  DM

Offline Country Boy

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2008, 11:02:10 AM »
 My little .358 win. has killed over 30 blackbear up to over 500 lbs with the .250 grn speer at a vel of 2350. Just a little ole" browning blr with a 20" bbl. but I would not use it for costal grizz. asumining I would ever geet the chance to shoot one. But it does fine on mooe and elk.

Offline poncaguy

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2008, 02:53:03 PM »
I have a 338 Federal Encore. Love the round and rifle. Very accurate and mild recoil.................no game shot at yet though.......

Offline keyway

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2008, 03:03:52 PM »
I have a 338 Federal rifle and I am totally impressed with this caliber. I have harvested 2 deer so far the first was a small buck at about 40 yards at a dead run. The deer never toke another step after contact was made, buck piled up against a tree. Second deer was a shot through 60 yards of brush that you could barely see the deer, it never moved, just fell in its tracks. I have owned 30-06, 30-30
444marlin,7mm08, and 308 winchester. For me there is no question , I prefer the 338 Federal. Or buy the way the two deer that I tagged were both bad shots, but I use 210 grain noslers.

Offline HogFan

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2008, 09:18:03 AM »
The .338 Fed really interests me, but I will wait before I get one. I've gotten burned by other now obsolete cartridges. When it turns 10, I'll buy it.

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2008, 10:16:35 AM »
<snip>When it turns 10, I'll buy it.
Why wait!?  get a .338/06 and enjoy a GREAT cartridge that will do everything the Fed will do and more!
Richard
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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2008, 04:34:29 PM »
<snip>When it turns 10, I'll buy it.
Why wait!?  get a .338/06 and enjoy a GREAT cartridge that will do everything the Fed will do and more!

What is REALLY GREAT about the .338-06 is the wide availability of ammo and the way they fit in a SHORT ACTON...
Coyote Hunter
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Offline Cheesehead

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2008, 04:58:53 PM »
I think it is a great short action rifle round, being that it is based on the 308. I have been looking at light short action rifles for some time and this round is a consideration. I have also considered the 325 short mag, just to be different and have more horse power. Since I reload I am not concerned about a cartridge becoming obsolete.

Cheese
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Offline Drilling Man

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2008, 05:06:18 PM »
<snip>When it turns 10, I'll buy it.
Why wait!?  get a .338/06 and enjoy a GREAT cartridge that will do everything the Fed will do and more!

What is REALLY GREAT about the .338-06 is the wide availability of ammo and the way they fit in a SHORT ACTON...

  Good luck with trying to stuff a .338-06 into a short action...

  Personally i don't see any advantage to the Federal, when you can have a .338-06...  It's just more of the same, and has the HUGE advantage of allowing heavier bullets for the biggest and most dangerous game in NA.

  You can build a long action rifle lighter than you will want to shoot, so the tiny extra bit of action weight from short to long is an non issue.

  DM

Offline Cheesehead

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2008, 05:22:42 PM »
If I ever hunt dangerous game it would be the perfect reason to buy a rifle chambered in 375 H&H. I do not think anyone could fault me for that. If I buy another bolt rifle, for non dangerous game, it would be a Browning short action just because I like it, the short throw and 60 degree bolt. Possibly in 338 Federal.

Cheese
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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2008, 03:13:33 AM »
<snip>When it turns 10, I'll buy it.
Why wait!?  get a .338/06 and enjoy a GREAT cartridge that will do everything the Fed will do and more!

What is REALLY GREAT about the .338-06 is the wide availability of ammo and the way they fit in a SHORT ACTON...

  Good luck with trying to stuff a .338-06 into a short action...

  Personally i don't see any advantage to the Federal, when you can have a .338-06...  It's just more of the same, and has the HUGE advantage of allowing heavier bullets for the biggest and most dangerous game in NA.

  You can build a long action rifle lighter than you will want to shoot, so the tiny extra bit of action weight from short to long is an non issue.

  DM

My comment about fitting a .338-06 into a short action was, of course, facetious.

If I was going after North American DG my first choice would not be either a .338-06 or Federal.  Nor would I choose my 7mm RM or even my .300 WM but that is somewhat moot as, like it is for most American hunters, my chances of hunting North American DG is about as likely as getting struck by lightning as I type this.  What a lot of people want is a compact rifle that shoots relatively fat, heavy bullet at moderate velocities for relatively short range work for deer, elk and black bear.  For such folks the suitability of the .338 Federal for DG is no more a concern than it is for their .243 Win or .30-30.

Yes, you can build a .338-06 rifle that is lighter than you would want to shoot it.  (For some folks that is just about ANY .338-06 load.)  You could continue to reduce the rifle weight if you chose to download the cartridge.  What you would end up with is a downloaded .338-06 that still won’t fit in something like this:

http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/images/Products/280L.jpg

That Ruger is a compact .338 Federal with a 16-1/2” barrel and an overall length of 35-1/2”, compared to a .30-06/.338-06 with a 22” barrel at 42-3/4” in length, a full 7-1/4” difference.  The 3/4 pound difference in weight is, IMHO, far less an advantage than the added handiness of the shorter rifle.

Further, the downloaded .338-06 will have more case capacity than you would be using, at least with most powders, which can cause its own problem, and at best you would have a less efficient cartridge.  In a short barrel rifle you would probably move to faster powers, further exacerbating the problems.

Then there is the little problem of ammo availability for non-reloaders.  I don’t believe any of the majors manufacture .338-06 ammo but at least .338 Federal is available fairly easily.

Frankly, if I was choosing I’d probably select a Ruger with a 20” barrel in .338 RCM over either the .338 Federal or .338-06.

That said, the .338 Federal and a .338-06 are very similar in rifles with barrels of equal length.  As DG stoppers you’re talking close range and I doubt you’d see a difference I’d want to bet my life on.  For thick cover where range are short the .338 Federal provides enough of the “right stuff” for 99% or more of the non-DG work and does so with less recoil than a .338-06.

The argument you make is the same as the .308 Win vs. the .30-06, yet many people prefer the .308 Win.  Thank God we live in a country where we can choose either one.




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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2008, 03:16:39 AM »
If I ever hunt dangerous game it would be the perfect reason to buy a rifle chambered in 375 H&H. ...
Cheese

I've always figured a trip to Alaska would warrant the purchase of a .375 Something - not because I would truly 'need' it but because I want one.

Make mine a .375 Ruger.  Had a chance to fire one (the Alaskan model) and loved it.
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Offline HogFan

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2008, 03:47:38 AM »
<snip>When it turns 10, I'll buy it.
Why wait!?  get a .338/06 and enjoy a GREAT cartridge that will do everything the Fed will do and more!

Why wait? I am tired of buying rifles in new cartridges that become obsolete in 3 years. From now on, all cartridges I buy have to have a proven record. Now, If I ever go to AK, I'll get a .375.

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2008, 04:07:16 AM »
Quote
That said, the .338 Federal and a .338-06 are very similar in rifles with barrels of equal length.  As DG stoppers you’re talking close range and I doubt you’d see a difference I’d want to bet my life on.  For thick cover where range are short the .338 Federal provides enough of the “right stuff” for 99% or more of the non-DG work and does so with less recoil than a .338-06.

  I spent 25 years of my life in Alaska, much of it hunting DG, so i have some idea of what it's like to hunt DG in Alaska.

  The problem with the Federal and DG, is the lack of being able to push heavy bullets fast enough to to the job.  You need heavier bullets for deep bone breaking performance that the lighter bullets don't do well.

  As for the .338-06 being not enough for DG, i guess the brown bears i flattened with mine will get up and start walking around again, now that they know i wasn't using enough cartridge to break them down and kill them.

  I've personally shot corner to corner through a big brown with my .338-06 using 275 Speers, breaking bone all the way.  Sometimes you have to take poor shots on follow up when cleaning up someone elses mess, and i prefered to have something in my hands that will get the job done.  Light .338 bullets won't do that...  been there and tested that.

  DM

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2008, 05:28:16 AM »
Drilling Man –

I didn’t say there wouldn’t be a difference between the .338 Federal and the .338-06, I said “I doubt you’d see a difference I’d want to bet my life on”.  Never hunted DG and likely never will, but my statement stands.

The facts are that for a given bullet weight you’re talking about an extra 100-200fps for the .338-06 over the .338 Federal.  Or, for a given velocity, you’re talking about an extra 25 grains of bullet weight.  That’s a pretty thin edge when your life is on the line. 

How thin?  With a 250g Partition the .338-06 delivers around 3469fpe, about 500fpe more  at the muzzle than the .338 Federal (2936fpe) can deliver.  Significant, yes, but not as nearly as significant as the additional 1350fpe (for 4290fpe) a .338 Win Mag can deliver with the same bullet or the additional 1900 fpe (for 48435fpe) a .375 Ruger can deliver with a 270g bullet.

Thanks, but if my life is on the line and a .338 Federal isn’t enough, the extra margin provided by the .338-06 isn’t going to give me warm fuzzies either.  I’d prefer at least a .338 Win Mag at a minimum and I’d probably go with the .375 Ruger.   For that matter I’d choose my .45-70 with flatnose 460g hardcast over a .338-06.

Hope you have a good stock of the 275g Speer bullets laid away, as they don’t make them anymore.

Coyote Hunter
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2008, 08:18:19 AM »
For all of those out there who are waiting with bated breath for my philosophical viewpoint on this matter, let me state it as briefly as I can...

Cart-a-ges are like wimmins.  They all be beautiful, no matter if they tall, short, fat, skinny, straight or curvy!  They all do what they are intended for, some may do it a little faster or harder, but they all can get the job done though sometimes they may be outclassed.  But that ain't they problem, it be yours!  You know what party you're goin to, so you pick your date and dance with the one you brung!

Arguin' over cartages is like arguin over who brung the prettiest date.  It don't solve nuthin but can be fun when you start discribein the respective attributes of the ones in question!  Trouble is, boys fall in love and feel they got de-fend the honor of their date.  So, when a (cyber) friend says "oh I guess she'll do right enuf, I just prefer one with a liittle more cushion for the recoil effect," our hero gets all bent outa shape and comes back with somethin like " she is darn sure better in the long haul then that ol' plow puller you been hangin with!"  Now this normally lasts as until one of our boys tastes change or a new filly moves into town.  Soons that happens poor old Mandy Marginal and Audrie Overkill, who been getting the job done for our boys for a long time are forgotten and new Miss Fancy Flashbang is all anybody can talk about.  Kinda.  Mandy and Audrie still get talked about, but usually in comparison with Fancy, and they usually come up way short...

Now this don't got nothin to do with ol' Granpa.  He and Gerty Geterdone been together for 40 years and he don't even have an interest in a brief flirtation with any cartidge but, even if you was to lay a new rendition down in front of him, primed, ready and his for the takin.

There has to be a reasonable alternative that everyone should be able to understand.  I believe I have come up with that alternative...
If I were to have to choose one 30 caliber it would probably be a 330WM, I can load it down to 30/30 levels if I have to.
If I were to have to choose one 45 caliber it would probably be a 450 Nitro Express, Same reason.
But here's the newsflash folk!  I DON'T HAVE TO CHOOSE JUST ONE CARTRIDGE IN EACH CALIBER!!!!
In 30 cal I have at least one of: 30/30, .308, 30/06 & 300WM and I want a .300 Savage;
In 35 cal I have at least one of: 35 Rem, .358 Win, 35 Whelen and I would have a hard time turning down something like a cartridge based on the 8mm Rem Mag necked up to .35 cal.
I could go on, but let me sum all this up.
I am 62 years old.  I have been acquiring guns since my first 22 when my age was measured in a single digit.  I still try (military rifles excepted) to have no more then 1 rifle in any particular cartridge but I long ago abandoned my attempt at having no more then one of any make/model of rifle.  But, when referring to a rifle I am still able to think of the rifle and the cartridge it is chambered for interchangeably.  I have never disposed of a gun and not regretted it but that doesn't mean I am MARRIED to my guns, or more correctly, to any ONE of my guns!  There is NO government imposed monogamy rule (yet) and, like monogamy, owning a single gun is a pitiful waste of manpower!  I therefore have adopted the harem system so I can choose whatever... uh, companion, strikes my fancy at the particular time and for the particular purpose!  And, although I could use a different rifle to kill each one of the 4 deer I try to put in the freezer each year and not live long enough to kill a deer with each one of my rifles, I am not adverse to adding a new attraction to my harem.  Like the .338 Fed.
Gotta go, my wife-mate wants me to start on my honey-do list...
Richard
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Nemo me impune lacessit

                      
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Offline Drilling Man

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2008, 12:41:04 PM »
Drilling Man –

I didn’t say there wouldn’t be a difference between the .338 Federal and the .338-06, I said “I doubt you’d see a difference I’d want to bet my life on”.  Never hunted DG and likely never will, but my statement stands.

The facts are that for a given bullet weight you’re talking about an extra 100-200fps for the .338-06 over the .338 Federal.  Or, for a given velocity, you’re talking about an extra 25 grains of bullet weight.  That’s a pretty thin edge when your life is on the line. 

How thin?  With a 250g Partition the .338-06 delivers around 3469fpe, about 500fpe more  at the muzzle than the .338 Federal (2936fpe) can deliver.  Significant, yes, but not as nearly as significant as the additional 1350fpe (for 4290fpe) a .338 Win Mag can deliver with the same bullet or the additional 1900 fpe (for 48435fpe) a .375 Ruger can deliver with a 270g bullet.

Thanks, but if my life is on the line and a .338 Federal isn’t enough, the extra margin provided by the .338-06 isn’t going to give me warm fuzzies either.  I’d prefer at least a .338 Win Mag at a minimum and I’d probably go with the .375 Ruger.   For that matter I’d choose my .45-70 with flatnose 460g hardcast over a .338-06.

Hope you have a good stock of the 275g Speer bullets laid away, as they don’t make them anymore.

  Yes i do have enough 275 Speers around, and there's always Swifts ect...  My second choise would be a 300 grain bullet.  How fast do you figure a Federal will push a 275 or 300 grain bullet??  That's what's i've found is needed to get bone breaking performance on DG in .338 caliber at these lower velocities.

  What velocities are you using for comparison above in 250 grain bullets?

  Lastly, i never use FPE to determine how a bullet/cartridge will work.  I use bullet performance and penetration on game animals.  FPE is just a number on paper.

  DM

Offline Mckie Hollow

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2008, 01:20:47 PM »
I took a look @ the 338 Federal. Very Nice.  Until I took a closer look @ what My 8x57 can do. The old 358 Win. makes a lot of sense to Me.

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2008, 04:27:51 AM »
Drilling Man -

So far I haven’t seen a 300g bullet for a .338 cartridge, nor any load data for a bullet that heavy.  The 275g bullets are almost as scarce – Swift is the only company I know that makes one and reloading data is hard to come by as well.  I don’t have a Swift manual and have to reach back to my Speer #10 to get any data for their discontinued 275g bullet. 

The 250g velocities I was using were 2500fps for the .338-06 (A-Square) and 2300fps for the .338 Federal (Hodgdon data @ 2278fps but below max pressure).  Accurate lists a 250g load at 2390fps in the .358 Win, so 2300 fps for the .338 Federal is close enough.  Exact numbers will vary with individual rifles of course, but given the same bullet a difference of 200fps is best described as marginal.

Sorry, but fpe is NOT just a number on paper.  It is a very real measure of the maximum amount of work that can be done – in this case the destruction of tissue and bullet deformation.  You have found a combination of bullet weight, construction and velocity that works for you and that’s fine, but there are other combinations that will work as well and can take advantage of additional energy.  If penetration was a goal in itself we would all be using pointed solids.  That does not change that the .338-06 is a rather minor step up from the .338 Federal, however, just as the .30-06 is a minor step up from the .308 Win and the .35 Whelen is a minor step up from the .358 Winchester. 

The .338 Federal versus .338-06 for DG is a moot question as far as I’m concerned.  Yes, I would prefer it but the advantage is still marginal at best.  If I had to use the absolute heaviest bullets available in a cartridge to feel comfortable it could do the job, I’d get a larger cartridge - in this case a .375 or .416 or .45.  Going with a .338-06 instead of a .338 Federal is kind of like going from snow tires to snow tires with a more aggressive tread.  When my life is on the line I’ll chain up all 4 wheels instead.



Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: 338 federal
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2008, 04:51:09 AM »
Drilling Man -

So far I haven’t seen a 300g bullet for a .338 cartridge, nor any load data for a bullet that heavy.  The 275g bullets are almost as scarce – Swift is the only company I know that makes one and reloading data is hard to come by as well.  I don’t have a Swift manual and have to reach back to my Speer #10 to get any data for their discontinued 275g bullet. 

The 250g velocities I was using were 2500fps for the .338-06 (A-Square) and 2300fps for the .338 Federal (Hodgdon data @ 2278fps but below max pressure).  Accurate lists a 250g load at 2390fps in the .358 Win, so 2300 fps for the .338 Federal is close enough.  Exact numbers will vary with individual rifles of course, but given the same bullet a difference of 200fps is best described as marginal.

Sorry, but fpe is NOT just a number on paper.  It is a very real measure of the maximum amount of work that can be done – in this case the destruction of tissue and bullet deformation.  You have found a combination of bullet weight, construction and velocity that works for you and that’s fine, but there are other combinations that will work as well and can take advantage of additional energy.  If penetration was a goal in itself we would all be using pointed solids.  That does not change that the .338-06 is a rather minor step up from the .338 Federal, however, just as the .30-06 is a minor step up from the .308 Win and the .35 Whelen is a minor step up from the .358 Winchester. 

The .338 Federal versus .338-06 for DG is a moot question as far as I’m concerned.  Yes, I would prefer it but the advantage is still marginal at best.  If I had to use the absolute heaviest bullets available in a cartridge to feel comfortable it could do the job, I’d get a larger cartridge - in this case a .375 or .416 or .45.  Going with a .338-06 instead of a .338 Federal is kind of like going from snow tires to snow tires with a more aggressive tread.  When my life is on the line I’ll chain up all 4 wheels instead.

  I understand where your coming from...  I'm a long time re loader, so i also have the books to check load data...

  I also have some 300 grain .338 bullets around, and load data for them.  I'd have to dig it up though, as i haven't had a need to use it in many years.

  You may be surprised to find out that just because you move up to a 375 or even a 458 for DG you STILL have to use the heaviest bullets to get decent penetration.  I've seen more than one Barnes 400 grain .458 bullets stop in on the far side of a big bear.  I saw a guy on TV shoot a big lion with a .458 Win. mag., loaded with 500 grain softs and the bullet didn't exit the lion on a rakeing rib cage shot.  My buddy had the same results with a big boar brown bear on the same shot.

  I choose to use a lower recoiling cartridge (that i shoot much better) that penetrates just as well, and STILL expands.  I've "always" said you need a bullet that "expands well", and dives in deep for good penetration.  No solids for me on browns...

  When it comes to breaking a big bear down, FPE doesn't mean sh** if you can't drive the bullet in deep through heavy bone, and that's why i use the heavy bullets in .338 cal...

  The problem with the Federal is, it's in a short action, that won't allow heavy bullets and the 308 case...  Stick it in a long action, and it evens out more....but if you use a long action, may as well take advantage of the 06 case then...

  Trust me, i considered all of this back in the 70's when i built my first .338-06.

  DM