Author Topic: 300 whisper (Read 1866 times)

Kotimaki · « **on:** February 13, 2008, 08:57:12 AM »

Anyone have any thoughts on building a 300 whisper out of a handi? A 22 hornet could be re rifled and reamed I know , but dont want to sacrifice my hornet barrel for the project. How about a 308 barrel cut down and reamed anyone have any suggestions?

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #1 on:** February 13, 2008, 09:13:18 AM »

The only way a 300whisper will happen on an NEF will be to rebore a much smaller caliber barrel to a fast twist .308 diameter bore. The only way you can possibly "cut down" A 308win barrel would be from the muzzle first

Kotimaki · « **Reply #2 on:** February 13, 2008, 09:24:20 AM »

I was thinking along the lines of an aftermarket "shilen" barrel blank in .308 bull , chambered for the whisper and welding an nef lug to said barrel? Then contouring it to whatever was desired?

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #3 on:** February 13, 2008, 09:30:42 AM »

Quote

I was thinking along the lines of an aftermarket "shilen" barrel blank in .308 bull , chambered for the whisper and welding an nef lug to said barrel? Then contouring it to whatever was desired?

While possible in theory it would be much cheaper just to build a savage or buy an Encore to start with or rebore your 22hornet barrel

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** February 13, 2008, 09:31:37 AM »

Quote from: Kotimaki on February 13, 2008, 09:24:20 AM

I was thinking along the lines of an aftermarket "shilen" barrel blank in .308 bull , chambered for the whisper and welding an nef lug to said barrel? Then contouring it to whatever was desired?

It would better to have a donor underlug welded to the blank, then have it chambered, I'm having exactly that done with a 28" Shilen match 6.5mm blank for a 6.5x55 Ultra. But you could also have another Hornet barrel fitted by H&R and then have a smith do the rechamber/rebore, I've had a couple of those done by Wayne York, a 338-06 A-square from a 25-06 Ultra and a .405 Winchester from a 38-55 Target.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,117152.msg1098380030.html#msg1098380030

Graybeard · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2008, 10:38:12 AM »

You CANNOT have a .300 Whisper NEF PERIOD!

Why you ask? Well laddie let me splain it to ya. Whisper is a registered trade mark of SSK Industries a GBO Sponsor by the way. JD kinda like me is a hard headed old cuss that kinda likes to do things his way again kinda like me. He refuses to spend his time working on NEFs. Since he owns the trade mark name and the round and refuses to make one for an NEF you can't have one.

Now you can get a .221-300 wild cat if you wish and lotsa folks make them but they are NOT .300 Whispers no matter the dimension cuz a .300 Whisper is a trade marked property owned by SSK and TC is the ONLY company authorized by them to make a barrel and call it a Whisper. TC also does not make NEF barrels.

Now iffen ya could get a TC or SSK barrel chambered to the round and convert it some how to fit your NEF then I guess you could get around the technicality and have a .300 Whisper. Otherwise what you'll have is a .221-300 so please call it by the right name as SSK is kinda peculiar about folks calling things by their trade marked names when they in fact are NOT SSK products.

Kotimaki · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2008, 11:01:52 AM »

Hmmmmmm....... COR-BON makes factory 300 whisper ammo , Which technically is also a 221-300. Im not sure what headstamp comes on the brass , but is it really all that important?
Let me rephrase . Im planning on building a small centerfire barrel for a handi capable of firing high B.C (heavy for caliber , for the simple minded) .308 caliber bullets at sub sonic to low supersonic velocities. I plan on using a parent case of 221 fireball , or .223. In order to do so , I will use a reamer that is marked 221-300 , 223-300 or 300 whisper all of which are available commercially. I really dont care what it is to be called how about a 300 Greybeard -New England Firearms- Marlin -Remington- Shilen -Millett Miller- Lee- Snap-on -Hornady -Hodgdon- Leupold- Kotimaki, just to give credit where credit is due.

Kotimaki · « **Reply #7 on:** February 13, 2008, 11:03:46 AM »

By the way anyone know where I can get properly headstamped brass when I m done?

Graybeard · « **Reply #8 on:** February 13, 2008, 11:43:14 AM »

I believe that COR-BON is officially licensed for the ammo by SSK just as TC is for the barrels. Anyone who makes and sells you a reamer marked .300 Whisper other than SSK is in violation of law. Yes damn it it does matter when someone illegally steals the property of another. If you can't see that you have a big problem. And you are a bit of a smart ass aren't you?

If properly headstamped brass is available it would come from either SSK Industries, COR-BON or maybe TC if they are supplying Hornady made ammo under their brand in the chambering as they do for the .375 JDJ. Hornady and RCBS are licensed by SSK to make dies but they sell them ONLY thru SSK Industries not directly and not thru any other source. Some folks actually understand proprietary ownership of things like patents and copy rights.

trotterlg · « **Reply #9 on:** February 13, 2008, 03:07:34 PM »

You would love my little 30 carbine Handi barrel, I used a 1 in 10 twist 300 win mag barrel in a Handi stub. It shoots 170gr cast at 900fps perfectly, it barely even pops. Bet you could find a 300 whisper reamer and do up a barrel like that one, I have made two of the 30 carbine and I kept one I liked it so much. Just don't tell GB if you find a whisper reamer, the whisper police may pay you a visit. Larry

trotterlg · « **Reply #10 on:** February 13, 2008, 03:16:20 PM »

Larry

AKbuilder · « **Reply #11 on:** February 14, 2008, 08:53:47 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on February 13, 2008, 10:38:12 AM

You CANNOT have a .300 Whisper NEF PERIOD!

Whisper is a registered trade mark of SSK Industries a GBO Sponsor by the way.

Now you can get a .221-300 wild cat if you wish and lotsa folks make them but they are NOT .300 Whispers no matter the dimension cuz a .300 Whisper is a trade marked property owned by SSK and TC is the ONLY company authorized by them to make a barrel and call it a Whisper. TC also does not make NEF barrels.

Graybeard,
I didn't realize .300 Whisper was a proprietary cartridge, thank you for setting me straight. I do think .300/.221 would make a very nice Handi. Sixteen inch barrel, I see 1-8 twist is recommended. I may have to look into a barrel for a .300/.221.

Thank you Mr Graybeard for allowing us to use your board ,
Paul

Graybeard · « **Reply #12 on:** February 14, 2008, 09:33:27 AM »

I think too many fail to understand that the JDJ and Whisper rounds are proprietary rounds. It's kinda like making a cola and calling it Pepsi or Coke Cola or selling hamburgers and calling them McDonald's. Try that and see how long ya get by with it. Same thing and too many don't seem to "get it".

eskimo36 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 14, 2008, 09:35:20 AM »

You could just get any of the 1-10 twist H&R/NEF barrels such as 30-30, 308 or 30-06 and stub it uising that barrel and then remount the forearm lug and changout the extractor. Chamber it for 30-20 or 300/221 or 30 carbine. That twist will shoot up to 200 grain bullets and some 220's.

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #14 on:** February 14, 2008, 11:09:27 AM »

I had a 16" encore in 300Whisper and was not impressed with it. Ended up tradin it for a ML barrel. Never did get it to shoot the subsonic 220gr bullets worth a darn. I mostly bought it to shoot in Illinois pistol season but then they went to an all weapon late doe season. Kurt

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** February 14, 2008, 11:14:59 AM »

My 30-06 Ultracomp shoots 200gr Nosler partitions into tiny little 100yd groups, and Mac won a postal match with it before I bought it from him, but whether the 1:10" twist would stabilize bullets at subsonic velocities is another matter. If you're gonna invest time and $MONEY$ in that project, I'd use a barrel with proper twist rate for it.

Tim

Graybeard · « **Reply #16 on:** February 14, 2008, 11:28:56 AM »

The problem with what folks are proposing is that at the velocity we're talking about the Whisper running those heavy bullets you can't stabilize them with standard twist barrels. If you want to push them fast then why bother with the whisper at all?

It's made to do two chores well one is to push heavy bullets to subsonic speeds mostly in suppressed guns and the other is to shoot the lighter bullets fast enough to use for hunting. The SSK barrels have fast enough twist to do both. The TC made barrels did not and would not stabilize the heavies at sub sonic velocity.

Chilachuck · « **Reply #17 on:** February 15, 2008, 05:22:05 AM »

Most of us are used to stuff like "Winchester Short Magnum" being made by everyone. Him sitting on it is probably why the chambering has not taken off more. (Reminds me of some fishing lures that the inventor tried to keep control of so /he/ could make all the profits, or some prospectors I've known...)

Thanks for digging up that .221-.300 designation. I've long wanted to try one.

Graybeard · « **Reply #18 on:** February 15, 2008, 07:18:52 AM »

Yeah but Rick Jamison is getting paid every time someone sells one of those Winchester Short Magnums since he sued and won in court and gets royalties on each one sold. I guess JD could do something like that but he is a stickler for quality and safety and wants to be in control of how things carrying his name perform. I have no doubt that if he tossed it open to all to use more with that name would be out there but for any who really want something about like a Whisper but not the "real thing" there are folks willing to make them for you and each and all of them no doubt have a rough equivilent such as the .221-.300.

Mine was a TC barrel and I really didn't like the way it performed should I ever decide I want another it will bear the SSK name on it.

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #19 on:** February 15, 2008, 08:05:11 AM »

Had I known that GB when I bought my TC whisper bbl I would not of bought it all I was aware of was the $200 dif in price between the SSK and the TC then I found out what the real dif was and sold it since it would not stabilize the haevies both the 125gr and the 150 gr killed deer dead though. Kurt

spinafish · « **Reply #20 on:** February 15, 2008, 10:06:11 AM »

BTW, The ,.300 Whisper ammo I bought from Cor-bon has a 5.56 Lake City headstamp on it..Reformed military brass...

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #21 on:** February 15, 2008, 11:25:14 AM »

I don't have any of my brass left as it went with the bbl when sold but I remember some of mine was .221 something and the other was .223 Remington. But I did know that it was all used brass reformed.Kurt

Graybeard · « **Reply #22 on:** February 15, 2008, 10:35:13 PM »

I still have some brass and even a few loaded rounds left from my foray into the .300 Whisper dunno how many but did notice some in a box awhile back when I was looking for something out in the reloading area. I used only new unfired RP brand .221 Fireball cases in making my Whisper brass.

Curt Dawson · « **Reply #23 on:** February 16, 2008, 04:52:13 AM »

That 30 carbine with the 1 in 10 twist barrel and heavier slugs looks like a great rook round.I presume that the overall length is to long for the M-1 carbine magazines with the heavier bullets.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #24 on:** February 16, 2008, 05:06:03 AM »

Indeed, plus the military barrels used a 16" twist.

oneshotonekill · « **Reply #25 on:** February 19, 2008, 02:40:43 AM »

I believe JD Jones is affiliated with Cor-bon and that is why they sell 300 whisper ammo. All the whisper ammo I ever got from Cor-bon or directly from SSK had 223 headstamps. This includes a couple thousand rounds of brass I bought from SSK.
The problem with the T/C encore barrels is that they are a 10 twist and will not stabilize the heavy bullets at sub sonic velocities. T/C used the same 10 twist 30 cal barrel blanks for all of their 30's (whisper, 30-30, 308, 30-06, 300win etc) it is a cost savings to them to cut the rifling all the same then just chamber to what ever they need.
If I were to build a 221-300 I would definately go with an 8 twist barrel blank. I've played with the 300 whisper and 221-300 a good bit in the past and 10 twist barrels were not much good with 200 grain and up bullets. I normally shoot 220-240 grain bullets so I had to use 8 twist barrels to get the accuracy I was looking for. I never did try to put one together on a handi rifle though.

Kotimaki · « **Reply #26 on:** February 25, 2008, 03:49:18 PM »

An update...the 445 barrel is now done , My machinist has worked his magic and i now have a 4140 billet lug for my next project which is going to be a .308 something. Im wondering and pondering a new twist on an old caliber. How about shortening the venerable 30.06 by 1.494 to make it one inch long. This would give us a case capacity of 1.76ccs h2o , very similar to the other well known 300. I also think that with a few modifications 30.06 dies could be used and a 30.06 reamer. If it works I think Ill call it the 3006 SHH (thirty ought six heavy hitter) as the last name I came up with is way too long to fit on that small of a piece of brass. Does anyone here have any Ideas or suggestions?

handirifle · « **Reply #27 on:** February 25, 2008, 06:38:27 PM »

Not that he needs me to (after all 1. he's right, 2. it's HIS web site) but I'll back up GB on this. I have personally asked JD about doing a 375 JDJ in a handi and he flat said "not in one of those rifles". Hmmm, nuff said, point taken, idea dropped.

Also to point out a subtle comment GB made, that didn't seem to get picked up on.

There WILL be a difference in SOME dimension of the wildcat 221-300 or any similar reamers to keep it legally NOT the 300 Whisper. Once this change is made, the 300 whisper brass may or MAY NOT chamber safely.

There's a good article in the current issue of Shooting times on the 338 Federal. The author mentions, and shows pics, of an old mauser he'd long ago had converted to the 338-08. same thing right? The 338 Fed ammo would NOT chamber in his 338-08 rifle dureto differences in the throat area.

You'd be stuck using 221-300 special dies, making ALL your own brass. But it's your money.

alan in ga · « **Reply #28 on:** February 27, 2008, 01:57:25 PM »

what about:
an NEF Handi barrel that comes ready for heavy bullet subsonic ammo. How about a LOT of subsonic ammo as cheap as it gets already in any gun store you might walk into? What about a barrel that also can use commonly available ammo in super sonic loads?
What about a .357 Magnum barrel?

I've had a TON of FUN with my Handi in .357 mag and lots of accumulated .38 Spl ammo I have stored. Another poster here has one with a supressed barrel that must be the funnest rifle of all. I may do the same as soon as I recover from the expense of my 22LR suppressor and tax stamp.