Author Topic: 1894C .357 and Ruger SP101 for personal defense (Read 5695 times)

.308 Win. · « **on:** February 16, 2008, 07:43:46 PM »

I've been giving some thought to buying these two guns. The SP101 for concealed carry and the rifle for a SHTF type scenario. Seems to me it would make really good sense to have a rifle/revolver combo. I'm not paranoid but just in case of a SHTF kind of thing happening, I think the .357 in a carbine would serve well out to a hundred yards or so and you can carry a lot more pistol ammo. than rifle if need be. Plus, you can buy much more factory ammo for pistol calibers for the same money than you can for rifle. Anyone have any input on this? I would say the carbine gets a whole lot more out of this cartridge than does a revolver. Just seems to make sense to me. I've had, and currently own, the 336 rifle in .30/30 but I've never owned an 1894. Are they as well built as the 336?

GatCat · « **Reply #1 on:** February 16, 2008, 09:52:06 PM »

I think your plan makes a lot of sense, and you would be very well armed. Yes, the 1894's are very well made. If you go that route, make sure the carbine feeds the ammo you choose with no hiccups.
One thing worth adding, particularly in some liberal area's, IF you ever had to use the carbine in a self-defense situation, it looks much less "offensive" then a military-looking weapon,which may influence, for the better, a prosecutor or a jury. After all, with an "old, cowboy rifle", the individual MUST have been justified, right. Not a "gun-nut" looking for an excuse to "play Rambo".
Mark

Keith L · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2008, 12:17:56 AM »

Make sure you understand what the local and state laws are about what personal defense is. In Wisconsin a 100 yard shot would not be considered defense, and you would most likely land in jail. And in a close up situation the pistol would be a better choice.

Also make sure that the ammo you have for the rifle works well in the pistol, or at least won't break it. I have never looked into 357, but I know I can load for my 45LC rifle hotter than many pistols can take.

Good luck with your project.

canon6 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2008, 04:07:02 AM »

I think that the idea is sound.But the implementation may be problematic.I have a SP101 in 327,bought it in Jan.I cannot nor can anyone else get my hands on a quanity of 327 ammo.I am on so many waiting list for the ammo,I forgot how many.So I am shooting 32 H&R mags hand loaded long, it I think is going to be a great cartridge,especially in a carbine, as a mater of fact I am having a HandiRifle made up now. hth Doug

mannyrock · « **Reply #4 on:** February 18, 2008, 10:39:49 AM »

The Ruger SP 101 is a very well built revolver. (I think that Guns & Ammo ran 50,000 rounds through one, without any tuning or breakage.)

But they are very heavy and bulky, and their triggers are really terrible. By the way, Ruger has stopped making them.

If you are going to carry a 5 shot revolver in .357 as a concealed carry weapon, there are alot better choices out there.

Regards, Mannyrock

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #5 on:** February 18, 2008, 10:41:31 AM »

Excellent ideal, I have almost that very combo except my carry piece is a Ruger security six 2.5 barrel .357, I back that up with my GP100, The carbine and 6" GP have both accounted for several white tails and a few bunny wabbits and tree rats, Head shots don't blow up all the meat. .357s with the right bullets can take black bears, so I don't think you would be under gunned against predator's of any kind. Thinking ahead isn't really being paranoid, It's being prepared and it could make the difference in living or dieing. Me.... I'd rather be prepared.

BTW .357s are just too much fun to shoot and reload for and also one of the least expenssive to do so.

.308 Win. · « **Reply #6 on:** February 18, 2008, 11:12:07 AM »

OK, now I'm upset that I let that fellow who followed me around the gun show a few months back talked me into parting with the SP-101. I didn't know they stopped making them. I mean, this guy followed me around the better part of two hours and would NOT leave me alone about that revolver. I am hoping to find one this weekend at another gun show. I'm looking for it and the 1894C. What might be the "better choices" that are out there in this caliber? I can think of no other revolver as well made. Thanks.

john keyes · « **Reply #7 on:** February 18, 2008, 12:33:40 PM »

I have carried an SP101 since about '98, I have the 321xl or whatever (no hammer spur). I suspect that weapon could be at ground zero in a nuclear explosion and only need new grips.
I find it to be an excellent shooter, I'm just not a semi-auto guy at all.

I have long thought about keeping a good rifle like a 1894C (or 336 for that matter) in the trunk for some unimaginable scenario, but when it happens, hey its nice to have it.

mannyrock · « **Reply #8 on:** February 18, 2008, 02:55:54 PM »

Hey .308,

Calm down. Ruger made thousands and thousands and thousands of SP-101s. They aren't at all rare. They aren't at all collectible. They aren't at all hard to find. The reason they quit making them was that they didn't sell well. Again, really bulky, and terrible terrible triggers.

The 1894 Marlin, in .357, is a fantastic little gun. With factory ammo, and 158 grain bullets, you will be getting 1,250 foot pounds or so of energy at the muzzle, and about 725 foot pounds at 100 yards. (In other words, at 100 yards, you will get 200 foot pounds of power MORE than shooting somebody point blank with a .357 pistol! Nough said.)

In the heavy woods of the East Coast, lots of people use these to deer hunt. They are good deer stoppers, so long as you keep your range at or under 100 hards, and make a careful broadside lung shot, avoiding the shoulder bone. By the way, I thinks Garret and/or Bufffalo bullet co. sell loaded rounds, using compressed powder charges, which they say are safe for use in the Marlin, and deliver energy that is just a shade under the 30-30 Winchester. (Pretty expensive though.) You could also use Core-Bond, 180 grain, hunting loads.

And, Hornaday has just announced that it is going to sell the LeverEvolution rounds, for use in the .357 magnum Marlins, obviously for hunting.

Best regards,

Mannyrock

pastorp · « **Reply #9 on:** February 18, 2008, 05:12:57 PM »

Guys, the sp101 triggers are rough when new but do shoot in nicely. After a few hundred rounds you will be happy with it. Regards, Byron

mannyrock · « **Reply #10 on:** February 20, 2008, 04:42:14 AM »

Yes Byron, I agree. The triggers get much much smooth with firing. However, mechanically, they remain somewhat of a long blocky pull (in double action).

Mannyrcok

.308 Win. · « **Reply #11 on:** February 20, 2008, 10:45:25 AM »

It's good news to know Hornady is making that ammunition in .357. That's excellent news that I didn't know.
As far as the trigger on the SP-101, the one I had wasn't so bad but it had seen some use but not abuse. I don't find them particularly bulky either, but I am a large fellow at 265#. I am in agreement with the person who said they thought their SP-101 would have survived 9-11. I just have not seen a ruger handgun that was shot loose with excessive end shake. They're just tough guns and while they may not be collectible, I just wish I hadn't sold the one I had. I will be coming home with one this weekend, though. Guaranteed.
I wondered about the use of the .357 on deer and I realize that in a revolver, there are better choices out there but while I knew it would be better ballistically coming from the carbine, I didn't know by how much. Where I am here in Kentucky, you could have a shot at point blank range or as much as 400 yards, just depends on where you are. I am between Louisville and Lexington and while we do have a lot of hardwoods, we have a lot of farmland, too, which is wide open. Think I might stick to my .308 because it can take care of any ranges we have here. I love lever actions, though, so maybe I'll try the .357 out on a stand that I know is going to produce a close shot.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #12 on:** February 20, 2008, 01:21:31 PM »

Hey .308 where do you hunt at over there? I hunt over in Larue co just outside of New Haven took some nice bucks up on Cecils knob, As for the pistol shootin I took an 8 pointer with my ruger at 67 yards, one shot put him down but he needed a mercy shot cuase I don't like to watch them suffer.

.308 Win. · « **Reply #13 on:** February 20, 2008, 07:26:46 PM »

Badnews Bob,

I hunt in both Franklin and Shelby counties. Franklin in the area called "Bald Knob" and in Shelby County near Bagdad.

No, I don't like to watch them suffer, either. I had the worst experience of my life in this regard this past year when I shot the best buck ever and the doe he was chasing. Shot him first, her second and the Winchester Power Points I was using in my Browning .30/06 didn't hold up. I found the buck pretty soon and he was still alive and tried to regain his feet. The SP-101 I had finished him off. After dragging him to the truck, I went for the doe. About 45 minutes had passed and I found her. She was still alive, too! She started kicking at me and I put the barrel on her forehead to finish her off. I won't be using Power Points anymore. Shot placement was where it should have been, too. I tried to skimp on the one thing I shouldn't have. In 2006 I used Federal Fusions and the deer I shot went down immediately. That's what I'm going back to.

LEO · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2008, 09:18:14 AM »

If you want the combo go for it but from a pure practicality stand point it would make more sense to stick with your 30-30 as your rifle. I am not a fan of the SP 101s although they are a well made extremely durable revolver, it is just a personal preference thing and if you like them they will serve you well. Now to the point of the 30-30 as your rifle of choice, odds are that although the SP 1010 and the 1894c are both 357, you probably won't be using the same load in each so although the ammunition is interchangeable it is not an ideal fit. The 30-30 is a 200 yard rifle and has a power advantage over the 357 while still being in a light weight, user friendly carbine that does not set off the public alarm the way an AR-15 would. In an emergency situation that extra 100 yards might mean the difference between getting the deer and eating roots. The 30-30 is a fine personal defense cartridge as well. As far as ammo costs goes, I looked at Wal-mart, they are sellng 30-30 ammo for 10.97 for a box of 20 and 357 ammo is 24.95 for a box of 50 so actual per round cost is fairly close so for the 400 or so dollars you spend on the 1894C you could buy a bunch of 30-30 ammo. Plus in a true emergency situation you will probably be using very little ammo, since you will only be using it for real and not practice, the time for practice is before things go bad. But as I said earlier, it is not a bad choice and if that is the set up you want, go for it.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #15 on:** February 21, 2008, 09:49:00 AM »

worked for the cowboy !
by the way who cares what the law is in a WTSHTF time ?

Keith L · « **Reply #16 on:** February 21, 2008, 01:11:09 PM »

Knowing the law will allow you to prepare the most aggressive defense possible and be ready when things do happen. And it may keep you out of jail in the aftermath. Going on urban legend can give false impressions of what is allowable, and can end quite badly. You can stay on the right side of the law and still defend yourself and family.

LEO · « **Reply #17 on:** February 21, 2008, 03:49:13 PM »

KiethL is right, there are many SHTF situations that one may encounter such as hurricane, flood, earthquake, wildfire etc. when one will have to care for themselves for a period of time, maybe days, maybe months but where society has not totally collapsed. What this means is that you will be answerable for your actions in court. During these times the standard may be lowered (based on the reasonable man test) but there will still be a standard the closer you are to the normal standard for defense the better off you are although it is still a gamble, and if you meet the normal standard for defense you are in the best situation you can be in. Take the time to learn what the law is in your area because it varies widely from state to state. It would be terrible to survive a horrific event, then wind up in prison because you had gotten bad advice from someone you don't know. I gues if society totally collapses then all bets are off.

Swampman · « **Reply #18 on:** February 22, 2008, 12:41:43 AM »

The biggest with the SP101 for concealed carry, is that like all Ruger double actions it's way too heavy. I had one and it was fun to shoot. If weight isn't an issue for you, then it's an ok gun. Personally I carry S&Ws.

By the way looters taste like chicken.

Our sheriff usually gives an "ok to shoot" order after the hurricane is over. I usually prop a loaded 336 by each door.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #19 on:** February 22, 2008, 01:22:36 AM »

when SHTF knowing the law is great but when pressed to survive in a true SHTF situation all bets are off !
better judged by 12 than carried by 6 !
It is easy to spout off opinion from the moral high ground from the confines of and easy chair . But when faced with the reality of survival in the confines of some hellish situation one may develop a much simpler code to live by !

.308 Win. · « **Reply #20 on:** February 22, 2008, 06:55:32 AM »

Hey Swampman,
"By the way, looters taste like chicken" is just too funny. I appreciate the laugh.

Esoom753 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 22, 2008, 02:22:44 PM »

I purchased a 1894CP many years ago and love it. My Mother always borrows it when she takes her RV on trips to protect herself. Loaded up with 38 Spl loads it is perfect for in home self defense and is also great for new shooters. I put an XS ghost ring sight on mine. Much better that factory sights

LEO · « **Reply #22 on:** February 23, 2008, 03:03:52 AM »

I really don't think telling someone they should take the time to learn what the law in their given area says, is "to spout off opinion from the moral high ground from the confines of and easy chair". I think the more information you can have going into a situation prepares you to formulate a more effective plan of action. I don't know what anyone elses history on here is but I know where I have been and some of those places were really "ugly". So what would be a true SHTF for some might be no big deal for others because they have been through worse. Having a plan in advance reduces the stress of the situation because although it will probably not fit your existing plan perfectly, it is easier to modify an existing plan than to try to formualte one when the situation has gone sour. It is all about making an informed decision, you can live with both literally and morally. Ultimatlely each person has to make that decision for themselves.

Esoom753 · « **Reply #23 on:** February 23, 2008, 03:25:17 AM »

Leo is absolutely correct

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #24 on:** February 23, 2008, 07:16:28 AM »

LEO, didn't say don't have a plan but when SHTF , a condition where the rule of law has already lost out and survival is the goal . As you say different situations mean different things to each of us . Lets see if i can explain , in the old west if you stole a mans horse it could mean death to the man . So it was a hanging offence to steal a mans horse . So what today would be equal ? Food maybe , you have very little in the aftermath of a large scale destructive weather event . It has been several weeks with out outside help and at least a couple more . you live a short distance outside a city . The city has run out of most things . A group bands togather to go out and steal what they can . You see them comming , you are grossly out numbered . By luck you have heard their plan to attack and steal from you and your family .
I really don't see how knowing any law at this point will change the corse of action that most would follow !
If you attack you are the criminal if you don't you and your family are dead !
I saw the roits that took place in the late 60's - early 70's , the huricanes that have destoried the gulf coast , the L.A. roits etc. SHTF can happen here !
the simplest thing can violate law , just having a firearm out and in hand is a violation in some states but to not do so could get you killed !
Man submits to the laws of socity but when socity fails man must protect himself , a need that the framers of our Consitution reconized !
So i stick by my post , if after SHTF you survived and had to wash the specks off you most likely will have a different opinion than the arm chair suvivelist !

454Puma · « **Reply #25 on:** February 28, 2008, 11:29:40 AM »

I think we could all agree that SHTF -means there is no law and no one to enforce the laws that did exist. To the OP your choice would be very prudent as you would also have the option of 38 Sp for both weapons!!

jbadams66 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 29, 2008, 04:56:48 PM »

Just wondering where on earth some of yall heard that ruger stopped making the sp101. They are still in production and they even just put out a new cartridge in one.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #27 on:** March 01, 2008, 02:24:45 AM »

they stopped the 9mm and 22 RF .
as far as the new 327 wish i could put a 327 fed. mag. in mine as of yet ammo has been on order !

Tom C. · « **Reply #28 on:** March 04, 2008, 03:52:56 AM »

I think .357 is a good choice for SHTF scenarios, although I feel the Ruger SP101 is a better BUG than a primary handgun. I have a Marlin 1894C on which I mounted a Williams Foolproof receiver sight. My primary .357 handgun is more likely to be a Ruger GP100 or S&W 627. I particularly like the 627: it is a 5” SS N frame, and in this case, 8 shot. Heavy enough to shoot well, light enough to carry.

mountie855 · « **Reply #29 on:** March 10, 2008, 04:04:22 PM »

Has anyone had experience with hard cast bullets such as LaserCast in the 1894 357 with MicroGroove rifling? I have had an 1894 in 357 for a number of years,
but haven't done anything with it except test fire when I bought it.

After reading about severe leading problems w/ MicroGroove barrels I had been contemplating selling it and buying a newer model w/ Ballard rifling.
Getting back into cast bullets (my favorite); I would appreciate any thoughts or experience in this area.

Finally, how fussy is the 1894 with respect to overall cartridge length (38Spl, 180-200 gr bullets in 357 cases, etc.)?

I feel this would be a prime consideration in deciding on a combo for any type of emergency use.

Thanks for any feedback!