Author Topic: 38 snub nose ammo (Read 15249 times)

gila_dog · « **on:** February 18, 2008, 02:39:22 PM »

My wife carries a S&W model 36 with a 2" barrel. Sometimes I carry a model 36 with a 3" barrel. Both are .38 specials. Does anybody have any recommedations for ammo that will perform well against bad guys from these short barreled guns? What if the bad guy is wearing thick clothing (like in winter)?

Mikey · « **Reply #1 on:** February 19, 2008, 01:15:57 AM »

If you handload you have multiple options. If you do not handload your best bet is still the standard 158 gn semi-wadcutter. If someone in your area makes or loads anything heavier, it would be that much better. When you are dealinbg with heavily clothed targets, bullets like hollow-points may not perform as you would expect. My preferred load is a 200 gn cast semi-wadcutter over a Winchester factory charge of 231 powder - slow but dependable. HTH. Mikey.

drdougrx · « **Reply #2 on:** February 19, 2008, 03:56:59 PM »

Any 158gr lead, semiwadcutter, hp, +p.

canon6 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 19, 2008, 05:01:18 PM »

I am using Cor-Bon 110 gr DPX 38 special in my 2inchers, but the choice of any of the 158gr semiwadcutters is always a good choice. Doug

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #4 on:** February 20, 2008, 03:04:17 AM »

I use Winchester 125 (or 130, don't remember, don't have the gun here) grain soft points. They hit where the gun is pointed (an important factor).

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #5 on:** February 20, 2008, 03:43:33 AM »

158 gr. SW-HP
at the low bullet speed few if ant jacketed HP bullet will open up and bullet weight will penetrate deeper than a light bullet .
not my idea but conclusive test by the FBI and others .
The new fancy looking and expensive new loads are geared to buyer appeal more than terminal ballistics IMHO !
if you want good performance in a .357 jacketed HP bullet launch it from a 357 mag. !

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #6 on:** February 20, 2008, 03:44:31 AM »

also with a 2 inch bbl adding powder only adds flash !

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #7 on:** February 20, 2008, 04:29:50 AM »

I agree with you Shootall. But heav loads just don't hit where I am aiming. I have my 4" Charter sighted in with wadcutters, but the 2" is smaller and much more concealable. If I ever feel a compelling need to go about armed, (during a civil disturbance, for instance) my .45 would be my first choice. I'd put up with the bulk for a while since I would probably be staying inside most of the time anyway, and wouldn't worry about concealment while inside.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #8 on:** February 20, 2008, 05:57:57 AM »

i don't plan on long range work with a stibie either !
but a long time ago a cat oh well its a close range affair

gila_dog · « **Reply #9 on:** February 20, 2008, 04:15:43 PM »

Thanks for the feedback, folks. It sounds like the basic .38 loads that I've made up (3.5gr of IMR 700X and a 158 gr semi wadcutter) that shoot so well in all my revolvers are the best rounds for the .38 snubbies. I'll not waste money on fancier ammo for these guns any more.

The 2" model 36 is the right weapon for my wife because she can take it with her easily, it's simple for her to operate, it's absolutely reliable, and she can shoot it quite accurately. I carry my 3" model 36 when I go hiking. I like it because it's compact and light, very accurate (cottontails within 20 yds are meat) and I can put a couple of snake loads in it if necessary. For open carry where serious predators (human or animal) are possible I like my model 19 .357 mag. For concealed carry I have a little Springfield Armory Firecat 9mm with Cor-Bon Powerball ammo. An interesting fact about NM, where I live, is that it's illegal to carry a concealed LOADED handgun (unless you have a CCW permit). If it's unloaded it's legal. So the semi auto inside the waistband, with the mags in a left hand pocket is how I go. You can also keep a loaded gun (handgun or long gun) in your car.

kmystry · « **Reply #10 on:** August 03, 2008, 11:50:38 AM »

158's kick like mules but they're the best bullet for CCW IMHO.

Savage · « **Reply #11 on:** August 03, 2008, 03:21:35 PM »

I like the idea of using the 148gr hollow base wadcutters. Heavy enough for decent penetration, full caliber meplat for crushing effect. What could be better!
Savage

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #12 on:** August 06, 2008, 10:20:05 AM »

What is decent penetration with 148 gr. wc ? I've seen Winchester factory loads fail to pass thru. the wood 2X2 target post . And that was from a 4 inch bbl. can't see a 1.8 bbl. on a S&W chief's spl. doing any better .

Savage · « **Reply #13 on:** August 06, 2008, 11:42:55 AM »

Surely someone has done gelatin tests using the 148gr WC. (Both solid and hollow base) Solid base swagged wadcutters do not penetrate well due to the fact that the solid cylinder shape upsets easily in most any medium, and the soft lead deforms easily. The hollow base wadcutters tend to penetrate better due to weight forward characteristics making the projectile more stable in medium. Don't know if penetration would be acceptable by FBI standards or not. I'd be confident enough to carry them.
Savage

Mikey · « **Reply #14 on:** August 06, 2008, 01:54:47 PM »

We used to take the hb wadcutters and turn them around backwards so the hollow point it first. We would load them over top loads of 2400 powder. Worked pretty explosively. Used it on, ummm, jungle critters in South America. Quite decisive. Mikey.

Savage · « **Reply #15 on:** August 06, 2008, 02:39:35 PM »

I did the same Mikey. Loaded them with a max charge of BE. Close range tissue damage was pretty severe. Got some pretty interesting wound tracts on ah--------jungle critters. They frequently keyholed beyond 15yds or so.
Savage

Mikey · « **Reply #16 on:** August 07, 2008, 01:14:01 AM »

Yeah, they were a pretty close range proposition.......

PeterCartwright · « **Reply #17 on:** August 07, 2008, 03:05:14 AM »

I took my 642 out to the range last week. My standard .38 load (4 gr. W231 behind a 150 gr. lead round nose bullet) did just fine for practice. However, I discovered that Speer's 135 gr. Gold Dot/short barrel load prints much closer to point of aim, and in much tighter groups. It's what I carry in my Airweight.

Mannlicher · « **Reply #18 on:** August 07, 2008, 02:38:21 PM »

My regular carry ammo is a handload using the 146 grain Speer SWHP bullet over 6 grains of Unique. This gives me a hard hitting bullet that is moving at just under 900 fps from a two inch barrel.
For a factory load, I like the Federal HydraShock 129 grain load.

44 Man · « **Reply #19 on:** August 14, 2008, 10:17:04 AM »

Federal LSWCHP +P .38 spl. 44 Man.

Graybeard · « **Reply #20 on:** August 14, 2008, 10:23:27 AM »

I carry Hornady factory loads using their 140 XTP-HP in all of mine. I like the extra velocity of the 140s over the 158s with almost all of the bullet weight. I've never needed to shoot a human yet and hope I never do but that's the load I've chosen to have in my .38 snubbies should the need ever arise. Here in the deep south clothing isn't all that heavy or thick even in what passes for winter.

powhs · « **Reply #21 on:** August 16, 2008, 06:03:12 AM »

I have some 50 grain hard cast swc bullets that could be loaded on top of each other. I am out of town now and can not try it but you could load three or four to the case. That would give you a 150 or 200 grain load. I was thinking if you loaded four rounds per case the one on the bottom may swell the case if not resized to a smaller diamater. Three should work and give good velocity. If you loaded three bullets to a case you would be able to shoot fifteen bullets out of a five shot snubby. It would be like haveing a little shotgun.

rockbilly · « **Reply #22 on:** August 16, 2008, 08:05:17 AM »

Back in the 60' while in the military I was stationed in GA. My friend lived in a small community about 30 miles from the base, just down the road was a auto junk yard where the owner sold illegal wiskey, needless to say there were a lot of "bad actors" hanging out around the area. My friend and I worked the midnight shift which left his wife and children alone fron about 10:30 to the next morning, concerned about their safety he got two big dogs (they would bite) and bought her a cheap .38. He asked if I had any extra ammo that he could use to teach his wife to shoot, I responded by giving him a box of my target loads (148 gr wadcutter over 2.5 grains of BE). He let her shoot a few rounds, then loaded the gun up and put it on a top shelve in the closet. Three-four mounts later he gets a phone call that there had been a shooting at his home. Since he was riding with me we managed to talk the boss into letting both of us go check it out. When we got there we found the county deputy and an ambulance crew going about their business.

What had happened, the dogs were raising hell but someone knocked on the front door. When she went to the door and called out "who is there", the person went to the back door and attempted to break it in. She shouted for them to stop but they continued. Standing about 6-7 feet from the door when she started firing. The first round went into the floor about a foot away from the door, the next round went into the door about a foot up from the floor, the next round hit about groin high. It went through the wood panel door and hit the individual just above his violator. The wadcutter did quite a bit of damage, he lost quite a bit of blood but survived to stand trail.

This friend got out of service, I later visited them, one of the fist things his wife told me was, "I have a new S&W .38 and try to shoot it as often as possible so I can hit what I aim at. She had upgraded her ammo, but was still thankful for the wadcutters I gave them, which likely prevented her from being raped and/or killed.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #23 on:** August 16, 2008, 10:09:58 AM »

well a big ^5 to her. too bad the shot was not just a tad lower. put his 'violator' out of business permanently. Now in NY state or the Pipples Demokratik Socialist Republik of Kalifornication she would have been charged with attempted murder.

Mikey · « **Reply #24 on:** August 20, 2008, 01:10:51 AM »

I think it is now only in the Pipples Republik, neu joisey, d.c., and chicago where it would be murder. A castle defense law has been proposed in nue yawk.............will wonders never cease...............

Gohon · « **Reply #25 on:** August 28, 2008, 10:45:45 AM »

The 2 inch 38 special snub nose is hard to achieve good expansion and penetration at the same time. I've done a lot of reading and personal tests using water jugs and the only round that really stands out is the Remington LSWCHP +P, also known as the FBI load. Everything I'm reading says the Speer 135-grain Gold Dot HP will perform just as well. Winchester and Federal also make this load but the led is a little harder and expansion is not as good as the Remington brand. Below is a picture of three rounds I tested using three different types. Gun used was a S&W 60LS 2 inch barrel. All rounds penetrated 4 one gallons jugs of water and dented the back wall of the fourth jug. The Remington as you can see looks beautiful. The Hornady had great penetration but no expansion, however it was not loaded to +P levels either. Probably would perform much differently if driven faster which is something I intend to check out. The Hydra-Shok was the big surprise to me. I use to carry this round as personal defense because of all the hype surrounding it. Not anymore but to be fair it may perform much differently in a 3 inch or longer barrel. As a result the only thing I carry when armed with any 2 inch snubby is the Remington LSWCHP +P.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #26 on:** September 08, 2008, 06:32:38 AM »

GOHON,
THANKS !

jsoukup · « **Reply #27 on:** September 09, 2008, 12:14:33 PM »

Has anybody tried the 158 LSWC-HP with Pistol Power or SR4756? My Speer manual claims a max velocity of 967 and 948fps respectively in a non +P load. This is in the same range of velocities that the same manual shows for the same bullet in a +P loading.

I'm not sure how well it works in a short barrel, but it looks like they used a 6 inch barrel for both +P and non +P loads, so while velocity would be less for two inch, but still, a lot may depend on the burn rate.

I use Unique for my knock-about reloads in both non +P 38's and 357 with the same 158gr LSWC-HP (with different charges). For SD, I load Federal non +P 110 38's in my 2" Charter and Winchester 110gr or Remington 158 SJHP's in 357 in my Ruger SP101.

Sure would be nice to use a little better load in that Charter.

Merle · « **Reply #28 on:** September 09, 2008, 03:10:00 PM »

Quote from: 44 Man on August 14, 2008, 10:17:04 AM

Federal LSWCHP +P .38 spl. 44 Man.

Where do you find the Federal LSWC-HP these days?
I can only find the RP & WW brands.

Merle · « **Reply #29 on:** September 09, 2008, 03:25:30 PM »

Quote from: Gohon on August 28, 2008, 10:45:45 AM

The 2 inch 38 special snub nose is hard to achieve good expansion and penetration at the same time. I've done a lot of reading and personal tests using water jugs and the only round that really stands out is the Remington LSWCHP +P, also known as the FBI load. Everything I'm reading says the Speer 135-grain Gold Dot HP will perform just as well. Winchester and Federal also make this load but the led is a little harder and expansion is not as good as the Remington brand. Below is a picture of three rounds I tested using three different types. Gun used was a S&W 60LS 2 inch barrel. All rounds penetrated 4 one gallons jugs of water and dented the back wall of the fourth jug. The Remington as you can see looks beautiful. The Hornady had great penetration but no expansion, however it was not loaded to +P levels either. Probably would perform much differently if driven faster which is something I intend to check out. The Hydra-Shok was the big surprise to me. I use to carry this round as personal defense because of all the hype surrounding it. Not anymore but to be fair it may perform much differently in a 3 inch or longer barrel. As a result the only thing I carry when armed with any 2 inch snubby is the Remington LSWCHP +P.

This is good info. I have been able to get some RP 158 gr LSWC-HP (+P) and some RP 158 gr LSWC (non +P), but no WW or Federal.
Since my M36 is an older one & not rated for +P, I will use standard loads for practice & reserve the +P for serious occasions.
Of course I fire a few round for familiarization, but the recoil isn't much worse that standard velocity loads.
I don't currently have a place to test it - only paper targets where I can shoot, so I have to rely on other folks experience.
Have you tested any of the other brands? How did they compare?

Thanks for posting.