Author Topic: "Divining"  (Read 3322 times)

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Offline Ray Ford

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"Divining"
« on: February 19, 2008, 03:01:04 PM »
Anybody out there into "divining?"  Also sometimes called "witching?"
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Offline Ray Ford

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Re: "Divining"
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2008, 01:50:49 PM »
Anybody out there into "divining?"  Also sometimes called "witching?"

The reason I posed this question is that I have an interest in the subject.  In the 1970's, while pastoring a little church in a little town in the south-central part of Oklahoma, and not making very much money doing it, I went to work for a man who drilled water wells.  I soon found out that I could "divine" or "witch" water--which was a surprise because I had always considered finding water with a forked stick a bit of nonsence.  My older brother later told me that my father--he died when I was a baby--could "witch" or "divine" wells.

On one day, soon after I went to work for Red--that was the driller's nickname--we went to a place in the country to drill a water well for a man.  His neighbor had a very good well right against the dividing fence.  Our man had staked a location over on his land the same distance from the road as the neighbor's well.  There was, however, a swag that angled across both places.  The neighbor's well was in that swag, but the location staked by our man was not.  When I looked at the situation, I told Red that, if we wanted to hit the same water as the neighbor had, we should move back into the swag.  I was ignored by our man and Red, and we drilled 200 feet into blue shale and a small amount of oily water before we quit for the day.

The next morning, our man showed up with an elderly gentleman carrying the most perfect willow "Y" that I've ever seen.  (I suspect he cultivated it.)  With the stick, he walked from the road toward the back of the place.  He got no sign where we were drilling, but when he hit the swag, that "Y" went down.  He noticed me watching him closely, and asked, "Have you ever seen this done before?"  I told him that I hadn't, so he said, "Come here!  Stick your finger into my hand where the stick is and walk beside me!"  I did as he said, and I could feel that "Y" twist in his hand but detected no movement in the hand.

Now, I had seen TV depictions wherein the forked stick was short and heavy--perhaps 3/4 inch in diameter.  The supposed "witcher" or "diviner" would grasp the two sides of the fork, and, when he supposedly passed over water, the stick would force his hands to move so that it pointed at the ground.  Like it is a lot of times about other things, that TV script was written by someone who knew nothing about a willow "Y" and less about using one.  The willow "Y" was a very slender, flexible thing.  The elderly gentleman grasped both sides of the fork with the stick pointing upward.  At that point, his closed fists were perpendicular to the ground, but he bent the forks of the stick outward so that they were horizontal--parallel to the ground.  When he pased over water, his hands never moved but the point of the stick went down and rotated the two sides of the fork in his hand as if it were alive.  That rotation is what I felt.  A person can squeeze the forks of that stick so hard it hurts when it rotates, but it will still rotate--sometimes striping the bark.

When the elderly gentleman left, he gave me his stick.  We moved the drilling rig to where he had indicated--down in the swag--and drilled our man a good well.  Between drill stem changes, I tryed out the willow "Y" and it worked for me.  After that, I was often asked to locate wells.

Like Graybeard said about another matter on another forum, I'm sure that there is a natural explanation for that stick falling to water.  I just don't know what that explanation is.
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Offline Hairtrigger

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Re: "Divining"
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2008, 01:58:18 PM »
In my area well drillers don't have much use for witching, they would rather get paid to drill dry holes

Offline Gun Runner

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Re: "Divining"
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2008, 09:48:32 PM »
Ray, I have 2 brass welding rods with a 45 deg. bend in them for handles. Dont remember how long the rods are found the info on a website years ago. I can hold them pointed out stright in front of me and walk around the yard and find water pipes.When I get over them the rods will cross. I knew where the main one in the yard, but found 2 others that wife dint know were there. Have also done this in a couple of nebs. yards. Also try taking a long metal pry bar and get it centered in your hand with your arm stright down at your side and walk around. When you get near a pipe or water it will start to point down. Dont know about the willow "Y" but gonna give it a try in the near furture.

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Offline Ray Ford

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Re: "Divining"
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2008, 09:55:08 AM »
Gun,

I tried two "L" shaped steel rods/wires to "witch" water once--just to try it.  It seemed to work.  I held them like two pistols pointed straight out in front of me.  When I crossed water they would swing inward and cross. 

A friend of mine, another old Indian, once worked for a lab with a big grassy yard.  They needed to locate the water line that ran across the lawn but didn't want to dig all the grass up doing it.  He took two rods like I have described and mapped the line for them.  He walked back and forth across the area and marked everywhere his rods crossed.  He was right on target.

BTW, I can "witch" water with any green "Y," not just a willow--but willow, because of its flexibility, is what is generally preferred.  In a few days, when I have more time to spend on the computer, I'll post some of my water-finding exploits.

BTW again, while water is priceless treasure in many circumstances, I really posed the question about people interested in "divining" because I once had a friend who had a "douser" with which he hunted for everything from oil to gold.  (Did I spell "douser" correctly?  It is coming up with one of those yellow smears.)  It was two flexible rods attached to a small, round container.  If he wanted to hunt for oil, he "loaded" it with oil--he put oil in the container.  I tried it with oil, and, when I passed an oil gathering pipe, it went down!

He told me that, when he loaded it with gold, it would indicate gold in a line angling across his property.  His property was Oklahoma sandstone and scrub oak, not the place where you would expect to find gold.  He assured me that there was gold where the "douser" indicated but added, "It might be a thousand feet deep."

There was a treasure hunter in my home town--he was written up in a magazine or two--who "doused" for treasure.  I recall him telling me that, by so "dousing" for gold, he found a small, old church bell that was some kind of black metal and didn't look anything like gold.  But when he had the metal analysed, it did have a gold content.  It was some kind of alloy--some kind of a mixture of gold and other metals.  He was very disappointed that he had never found the "donger."
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Offline GRIMJIM

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Re: "Divining"
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2008, 12:35:55 PM »
I was doing a cabinet installation once in a bank in Indianapolis and the pavers had covered over the drain in the parking lot. A guy with two bent pieces of wire went out there and found it. I thought he was pulling our legs and already knew where it was. He gave me the wire and said to walk over a trench in the concrete floor where you could see where it was cut at one time. Sure enough the wires crossed right when I stepped on that trench.
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Offline Gun Runner

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Re: "Divining"
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2008, 02:02:18 PM »
Have heard before about attaching a cup or something to the rods and find what your looking. Bet I can drive it nuts with a little gold in the container. I live over the old main shaft of the Empire Gold Mine in northern Calif. The main shaft run's directly under my house, but about 1000 feet down.
I think the proper spelling is dowser(course I'am a high school drop out)  ;D

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Offline Ray Ford

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Re: "Divining"
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2008, 07:50:58 AM »
I was doing a cabinet installation once in a bank in Indianapolis and the pavers had covered over the drain in the parking lot. A guy with two bent pieces of wire went out there and found it. I thought he was pulling our legs and already knew where it was.

Grim,

People do pull people's legs.  A friend of mine once told me this story:  A man, before WWII, was working for a seismograph outfit in south-central Oklahoma.  They were moving across the country drilling and shooting so as to map underground strata.  They drilled one hole into water that flowed up out of the hole onto the ground.  After filling the hole, they moved to a different location, redrilled, and made their shot. 

The fellow subsequently went into the army for the duration.  After the war, he was discharged, and soon thereafter was driving down the highway past the spot where they had drilled into water and observed a drilling rig pulling into the field.  Obviously a joker, he turned around and drove into the field to where the rig was.  He asked the guys if they had had their well "witched."  They said no, so he volunteered to do just that.  Securing a forked stick of some kind, he walked around with it until he located the spot at which they had drilled the shot hole.  Marking it, he told the drilling crew that, if they drilled right there, the would have an artisan well.  And he told them at what depth they would hit it. 

Sure 'nuff, at exactly where he told them, and at exactly that depth, they hit water that flowed up out of the top of the hole.  That drilling crew left that job with the idea that they had encountered the best "diviner" ever.

 
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Offline Ray Ford

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Re: "Divining"
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2008, 08:03:13 AM »
I think the proper spelling is dowser(course I'am a high school drop out)  ;D

Gun Runner

Gun,

I went to three universities and got three degrees--and one thing I learned was how many words there are that I can't spell.  My sister is a high school dropout, and I have frequently asked her for help when it comes to spelling.  With your spelling, I looked the word up, and you are right.  My Webster's defines "to dowse" as "to search for water or minerals with a divining rod."  I think that the word originally meant "to push down."  The dipthongs "ou" as in "douse" and "ow" as in dowse do sound very much alike. 

BTW, I've gotten over being embarrassed at being a poor speller.  I have better things to be embarrassed about.
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Offline Gun Runner

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Re: "Divining"
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2008, 08:17:06 PM »
Ray, spent 20 yrs in the navy, over 15 yrs of it in communications. Still cant spell worth a darn. Can find a mis-spelled word in the paper but not sure how to spell it right. Used to get messages that officers had drafted with mis-spelled words but we werent allowed to correct them. When we took them to the CO or XO for release they would say take them back to those college grads and tell them to spell the words right. (I used to love doing that  ;D.) Wife is an ex nurse and an english major, like having your own dictionary  ;D
Nothing meant about your spelling.

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Offline Sourdough

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Re: "Divining"
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2008, 07:58:56 PM »
My Grandfather taught me to witch for water when I was a kid.  He had me use a willow or elm stick.  Later when in the Air Force, I used brass rods to find water, and sewer mains, before digging with a backhoe.  Don't know why it works, don't care, just know it works. 

Once when stranded in the Arizona dessert a friend and I witched around out in the sands using a piece of Palo Verdi.  I got a strong pull out about 1/4 mile from the base of a cliff.  We dug down in the sand.  Three feet down the hole started filling with water.  That hole produced enough water for him and I and four horses for the next five days.  When we left I stuck a stick in the hole and filled it with sand.  Next time I was in the area I always knew where to find water.  It never failed to produce, even in the middle of summer.

When living out in the White Sands area of New Mexico, my job was to round up stray cattle off the missile ranges.  I spent many nights out there alone.  Often finding water meant I could spend another day or two with out having to return for water for me and my horses. I always carried two brass rods in my saddle bags.  Those two rods found water for me many times.  Especially along the eastern base of the San Andreas Mtns. 
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Offline Ray Ford

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Re: "Divining"
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2008, 07:57:29 AM »
My Grandfather taught me to witch for water...  Don't know why it works and don't care.  I just know it works.

Sourdough,

I've puzzled in my mind about why it works, but I have not come up with an anwer.  I, too, just know that it works.  But the biggest mystery about it, to me, is not why the "Y" goes down.  It is why it comes back up! 

Let me explain.  On that day that the old man showed me how to use his willow "Y" and gave it to me, I walked into that swag--see my post above--and the "Y" dropped as I approached and crossed it.  As I walked up out of the swag on the other side, the "Y" came back up.  And that is very consistent with me: when I walk to water, the "Y" goes down; when I pass the water, the "Y" comes back up.

I can think of possible explanations for the "Y" going down as if attracted to water.  I'm not sure that plants don't have some sensory ability of some kind.  We all know that a sunflower will turn its "face" toward the sun.  Many of us are aware that an old elm tree will send roots 50 or 60 feet through normally dry ground to water--to a sewer line.  Some of us have observed that climbing vines planted several feet from a wall or fence will grow to the wall or fence and not in other directions.  But I can not think of an explanation for the "Y" coming back up when I walk past the water.

I can locate a specific spot, stand still and move my hands back to my body and then away from it, and the "Y" point will move forward or backward so that it points at exactly that spot.  Once I have located an underground flow by crossing it, I can orient myself so that I'm facing either with or against the underground flow with the "Y" up, and the "Y" will tell me which it is.  If the "Y" falls away from me, I'm faced in the direction of the flow.  If the "Y" falls toward me, I'm faced against the direction of the flow.

I have been told that, if I will note where the "Y" first starts to fall and measure the distance from there to where it is completely down, I will have the depth of the water.  But that doesn't seem to work for me.

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Offline Ray Ford

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Re: "Divining"
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2008, 08:32:47 AM »
My Grandfather taught me to witch for water when I was a kid. 

Once when stranded in the Arizona dessert a friend and I witched around out in the sands using a piece of Palo Verdi.  I got a strong pull out about 1/4 mile from the base of a cliff.  We dug down in the sand.  Three feet down the hole started filling with water.  That hole produced enough water for him and I and four horses for the next five days.  When we left I stuck a stick in the hole and filled it with sand.  Next time I was in the area I always knew where to find water.  It never failed to produce, even in the middle of summer.

When living out in the White Sands area of New Mexico, my job was to round up stray cattle off the missile ranges.  I spent many nights out there alone.  Often finding water meant I could spend another day or two with out having to return for water for me and my horses. I always carried two brass rods in my saddle bags.  Those two rods found water for me many times.  Especially along the eastern base of the San Andreas Mtns. 

Sour,

I had never thought about using "divining" to find water while in the wild--but it sounds reasonable.

Once, while experimenting with a willow "Y," I found a small "clearing" in some woods.  I put the word in quotation marks because it was not really a clearing: there was no indication that the area had been cleared by anyone.  It was just a circular opening surrounded by close-growth small trees that were perhaps no more than 20 years old.  (No vehicle could have been driven to the location without cutting out a road.)  In the center of the "clearing," there was a circular depression perhaps 3 to 4 feet in diameter and 6 to 8 inches deep in the center.  I could approach, with the "Y," that depression from any direction and get a strong pull when I got close to it.  I KNOW that I could have dug down into that depression and found water relatively quickly.

I concluded, first, that the "clearing" existed because the ground was too wet for the surrounding oak trees to grow there.  I concluded, second, that the depression indicated a sinkhole of some sort.  On reflection, something else occurred to me:  perhaps the depression was over an abandoned, filled-in well.  I could have been at an obliterated home site from 40 or 50/70 or 80 years before.  Perhaps the buildings had been torn down or collapsed and rotted and/or burned.  Perhaps the well had been filled.  Perhaps the trees had encroached on the place--except for the well.  I don't know.  But I KNOW that there was water beneath that depression.

If the place was a home site, and the depression a well, what is the story of the people who lived there?  Did they join the migration of Okies fleeing the dust and poverty of Oklahoma in the 1930's and trek toward the promise of work in California?  I wonder what a metal detector might turn up in area.
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