I don't know where you came up with the idea that I commonly load to the high end, pushing the limit, stressing brass and rifles.
I don’t recall Lone Star making such an accusation but you did see fit to publish very old data that exceeds current data form the same and other sources by a significant margin. My suggestion would be if those velocities are desired get a .35 Whelen.
In reality you have no real idea if the loading data from the older manual isn't safe.
Well, actually Lone Star is correct on this - that data should not be used and is well over current maximums. Other data in #7 may or may not be safe. I know Speer’s 7mm Rem Mag data from that era lead to very short case life when I started reloading.
In fact we all work up our loads regardless of your fear of not using your precious M43. Why do you think they have "starting loads". Of course Greybeard is not going to reccomend old loading data, why should he?
Maybe its just me, but I don’t know any experienced reloader who recommends using old data. There is simply too much current data published that includes pressure data. Granted the pressures in specific firearms will vary, but in my opinion the pressure data is an important tool that wise reloaders would not ignore.
As for components changing over time none of us always use exactly the components listed in the data that is why we start low and work up. As for your gross overload comment thats is a comment made of scrap and you know it.
Some components have changed quite a bit over the years and any change can make a difference.
Lone Star’s “gross overload” comment was “Often what a handloader works up to in his rifle turns out to be a gross overload when an Oehler M43 is used to actually measure the pressure in the same rifle.” There is significant evidence to indicate he is correct and various purveyors of load data have acknowledged that their loads have been reduced since they started using pressure equipment in their testing.
Depending on the specific firearm, you may not get significant case deformation until safe pressures have been exceeded by dangerous amounts. Or you may have deformation at moderate and completely safe pressures. This is not opinion but observed fact as reported by various sources.
Only the most inexperienced handloaders push the edge. How do you know the data was not pressure tested? I get tired of the ongoing whining that you will blow yourself up if your put one grain over a book listed max in your rifle, that it will take half an hour for all the pieces to hit the ground. As for current pressure tested data you seem to think that ammunition loaded for one rifle will give the same pressure in another and that is wrong. Don't tell me you are one of the lost souls that thinks that when you reach a certain velocity on your chrony you have reached max. If your brass is not altered in any way by your load and it lasts 10 or more loadings then the load is safe in your rifle, possibly not someone elses. Primers are not a good pressure indicator but case life is.
Pressure tested data is always a good place to start but there are no guarantees due to differences in specific firearms. That said, only a fool would ignore maximum published velocities, just as only a fool would ignore maximum published powder charges. There is a positive correlation between pressure and velocity that cannot be ignored. If loads are running significantly faster than published using the same components then there is a very good chance that pressures are also significantly higher. Repeated tests have shown that at near max loads an extra 100fps may require an extra 10,000 PSI.
That is not to say over maximum loads may not be safe in a specific firearm. My Ruger .257 Roberts has a SAAMI MAP of 45,000 CUP for standard loads and 50,000 CUP for +P loads. Yet it is the same action that Ruger uses to build the .25-06 which has a SAAMI MAP of 54,000 CUP.
Unfortunately, the Big Bang disaster isn’t something that can be undone. The best advice I can give reloaders is to use CURRENT DATA THAT INCLUDES PRESSURE DATA and work up carefully. And, if measured velocities don’t match desired velocities, get a bigger hammer. In this case the Whelen can easily and safely meet the velocities listed in Speer #7 for the .358 Win. You can't shrink the case volume and expect the same velocity without a corresponding increase in pressure.
