Author Topic: What rifle/caliber for new hunter? (Read 1881 times)

azmark · « **on:** February 22, 2008, 05:00:32 PM »

A guy I know wants me to go coyote hunting with him. The only rifles I've shot more than a couple of times were .22s. I've never done any long distance shooting with anything. That being said, can I get some advice on picking a rifle and caliber that will be appropriate? If it turns out that I'm not into it, I don't want to be out much money. I'm thinking that since I haven't developed long range shooting skills yet, I should plan to limit any shots to relatively close range. Should I take that into consideration when deciding on a caliber? I live in AZ where it's legal to hunt them with any firearm, so there's no minimum caliber.

Ladobe · « **Reply #1 on:** February 22, 2008, 05:39:07 PM »

There are already endless threads that would answer your questions about cartridges that work well on predators with a little searching in this forum. But that's putting the cart before the horse...

Since you brought up expense, have no experience nor any idea if you'll even want to continue predator calling, just carry whatever you've already got the first outing with your friend, or nothing at all. Find out if it is something you want to continue doing before you invest any money or the fair amount of newly learned knowledge you'll need to commit to if getting into it.

FWIW

bigjeepman · « **Reply #2 on:** February 23, 2008, 03:24:43 AM »

Quote from: Ladobe on February 22, 2008, 05:39:07 PM

There are already endless threads that would answer your questions about cartridges that work well on predators with a little searching in this forum. But that's putting the cart before the horse...

Since you brought up expense, have no experience nor any idea if you'll even want to continue predator calling, just carry whatever you've already got the first outing with your friend, or nothing at all. Find out if it is something you want to continue doing before you invest any money or the fair amount of newly learned knowledge you'll need to commit to if getting into it.

FWIW

or borrow a rifle from someone for your first couple of times out ...

bjm

trotterlg · « **Reply #3 on:** February 24, 2008, 07:32:09 PM »

The classic round for Coyotes is the 17 Remington, the 22 Mag is not really quite enough gun, but if you have one use it, just don't take a bad shot. If you want to buy a new rifle then start off with a .223 of some sort, you can find them cheap and they do shoot good, just a little over kill for a 30 pound AZ Coyote. I know, I have a place in Apache Junction, I use a 22 Mag there, because the dogs are kind of little. Up north in Washington I use the 17 Remington with 30 gr Bergers. Good luck and have fun, if you have a 30-06 it will work too, it will just make a hole in the pelt you can throw a cat through. Larry

kevthebassman · « **Reply #4 on:** February 25, 2008, 12:02:36 AM »

It also sort of depends on whether or not you're in the mesquite country or not. Shots at coyotes in the mesquite for me were short range affairs... probably 50 yards or less on average. Keep that in mind before somebody tries to tell you you need a .22-250 or a .243 or a .25-06, because in the mesquite you just plain don't.

flyboy · « **Reply #5 on:** February 25, 2008, 05:09:25 AM »

If you are a NEW (meaning never having hunted much with anything other than a .22) hunter, trying it before you make a financial commitment is excellent advice.

If you decide in favor, and then think you might like to hunt other things, a "combination" caliber, like .243 , which will be very adequate from 50-250 yds, and maybe beyond, depending upon development of your skills, will probably be a good solution. It will allow for hunting larger animals, (deer come to mind) if you wish.

Scope it well, not necessarily expensively, and don't go hog wild with the magnification. 4X will give the same sight picture at 200 yds as iron sights will at 50. 7 or 9X is plenty for 'yotes at normal ranges, and for smaller things, too. Then, go hunting , and ENJOY!

azmark · « **Reply #6 on:** February 25, 2008, 05:18:28 PM »

Kev,

Yes, I'm in Mesquite country. And yes, I keep hearing that I have to have a caliber that will handle 300-yard shots. Somebody should tell the guys killing yotes with their shotguns that it's impossible

Trotter,

When I started thinking about doing this, I was thinking of a .22 mag because a couple of old-timers recommended it. I thought a Henry lever action would be nice. A .17 Remington might be cool but the rifles are a little pricey. Besides, I'm not concerned with pelts at this stage.

After being flamed in some other forums for possibly being inhumane, I thought "Hey, I'll just get a 30-30; I can use all kinds of different loads". Of course you can't tell anybody you're thinking of a 30-30, because apparently they're "worthless" (quote from a co-worker). I know this is nonsense, but people are funny that way.

I didn't know this was such a controversial subject. At least you guys are pretty calm about it.

kevthebassman · « **Reply #7 on:** February 26, 2008, 01:28:21 PM »

Well, if you already have the 30-30, and you don't care to save the pelts, I would just use that, in all honesty. If you have a scope, use it on it's lowest power. Coyotes love the mesquite, they can get up real close to the call without being seen.

Kurt L · « **Reply #8 on:** February 26, 2008, 02:26:27 PM »

Any nothead that says a 30-30 is worthless is yes a bone head.
things come and go and example 30-30 and 45-70 have been with us over 100 years
and thats a lot more than a lot of them make it.
like 257 Roberts a very nice efficient round, had its hay day but I don't think any one chambers
this in a new rifle anymore? 35 Whelen is getting hard to get and so on, like the 32 Win Spec . Fine round but
it did not get the sales to keep it alive,but the old 30-30 and 45-70 live on strong today.
you can go buy a new one today with out looking to hard.
The 30-30 has put billions of deer down and why do the classics remain demand they still sell as people
still want them and buy them. 30-30, 45-70, 270 Win, 30-06 Spring to name a few will be around for many years to come.

As others have said if you are not sure on this just go hunting with your buddy and maybe take turns with his gun and see if you
are into this or not.
you can then pick a gun to do your hunting. a goodl round for this and deer so you only need one gun, you will still have a lot of choices,sure a 30-30 would work for you,a 243 ,25-06,270 Win,7mm waters,7mm-08,308Win,30-06 are all well suited for deer and smaller game as well to name a few.
the 17 and 22 cal is fine for smaller game and yes many deer have been shot with them but you must remember that shot placement
on a deer is very important with these and you may be better off with a bigger bore as pelts and damage are no problem to you.

Handi rifles are very popular on this site and the make a nice single shot rifle at a low cost to you and they have a very good selection of chamberings you can pick from.
another one that is popular on here but a bit higher price is the stevens 200 bolt action and it has a nice selection of chamberings.

Qaz · « **Reply #9 on:** February 26, 2008, 03:16:04 PM »

Leave it to the knot heads here to go off on some tangent. To answer your question, Yes a 22mag will work at 100yd and less, but is best used by some one that is experienced with it and has a cool head, not a first timer.
If you can borrow a rifle in 22 Hornet, 222, 223 or 204, do it before you go and practice with it at 50, 100 and 150yd. I would limit my shots to 150yd the first time I went, that is a fair poke at a moving object or one that stops for only a moment. Do this so you are familiar with the rifle and where it shoots with that load. When a coyote does come in, especially the first time, you are going to be very excited and you will want things to go smoothly with the rifle.
If it is something that you like and want to keep the costs down, look at a Stevens 200 rifle or a N.E.F Handi. This sport can be inexpensive or very expensive. It is addictive to say the least.

Kurt L · « **Reply #10 on:** February 27, 2008, 03:21:32 AM »

Well lets go on another TANGENT.
Qaz if it sounds like the poster would like a 30-30 that would be a fine round for any beginner.
yes it has it's limits but it could be used for deer and other game also.
then you flame me and and state close to my post and you say you need to be experienced and
cool to shoot the 22's the then you flip and say to get 22's.

I think the poster would have a lot more hunting options in the future buy getting a larger bore than a
22 center fire.but you know best and I will stand corrected.Bow to the king Qaz.

mookster79 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 29, 2008, 12:49:02 PM »

I myself have just started to get into coyote hunting myself and did not get to do enough last year and I am trying to do as much as possible this year. I got onto this site because of my handi rifle before purchasing one. I use the handi I have in .223 for just about all my varmint hunting. Mainly used as a woodchuck slayer here in SE PA it works well for all I have used it for. I stay away from shots over 200 yds for me (wouldn't take anything over about 100 on a moving target), but I also have access to acre upon acre of farm here in lancaster county. I have friends that used .17 .204 .243 30-30....etc.

I like the price of the rifle in .223 ($230 - $270) the last I checked on them, put a little too much scope I guess, but that is just me ( said and done about $600 invested). The price and diffferent choice of rounds available without having to reload is also very appealing for that caliber. I use a 40 to 50gr nosler bt for most of my shooting. But as stated, practice is key for smaller calibers. I am very comfortable with my gun, round, and scope.

I would try it out with what you got, but for a smaller caliber and not going over kill on the optics you could get set up with a handi in whatever caliber you use for $400 and be real happy I would bet

The key is to try what you want and have fun with it. Hope it works out for you. Let us know what you think. Good luck.

S.B. · « **Reply #12 on:** March 02, 2008, 08:52:14 AM »

Any caliber and rifle you can hit them with, is a good one as long as it's legal!

30-30man · « **Reply #13 on:** March 02, 2008, 11:40:37 AM »

I know many who just use a shot gun and call them in close. You can't get much cheaper than a NEF single shot 12ga---about $89. If you're looking for something multipurpose and short range, a 30-30 will clean their clocks as good as any rifle. I don't take 500 yard shots because of my personal beliefs. I'd rather hunt an animal close as it is more of challenge for you and the animal. The 30-30 can be a 200 yard gun if you practice. As far as loads go, stay away from any of the hollow points if you care about the pelt. Most of the soft points for a 30-30, I'd imagine would not even fully expand going through a coyote. Another option is an SKS, you can get them in the $200 range and they are just as capable, fun to shoot, can be multipupose, and are cheap to shoot. The 7.62x39 can be had for less than $5 a box of 20/soft points.

Qaz · « **Reply #14 on:** March 03, 2008, 06:09:00 AM »

Kurt L- thanks for the compliment. I stated that the 22mag is really not for the beginner when it comes to coyotes, but any of the 22 center fires will kill them quite well.

NoBull60 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 16, 2008, 07:47:43 AM »

In addition to what everyone else has said, the small center-fire cartridges have insignificant recoil compared to the large center-fire cartridges. It is rather impressive to see your shot hit the target while looking through the scope. And nothing beats the adrenalin rush of shooting an up-close coyote with a shotgun.

Just have some fun shooting and see if it's for you.

NoBull60

S.B. · « **Reply #16 on:** March 16, 2008, 09:22:16 AM »

The wife of a friend likes to prairie dog hunt with her scoped AR-15 so she can see the bullet hit. Good point.

kevthebassman · « **Reply #17 on:** March 17, 2008, 03:59:07 PM »

I like shooting with my .17 Rem. I get to watch things go to sleep in the scope.

Shooter.250 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 22, 2008, 02:59:13 PM »

Just my 2cents worth.
Most have made one very good point, go and see if it is something you want to spent time doing.
Borrow a gun (doesn't matter what caliber if you aren't worried about the pets) or us a shot gun as it sound you will be in close quarters.

If you want a, one gun does all, my personal favored is the 3006 (most everything has been taken with one, I wouldn't suggest using it on large bears though, even though they have been taken with the 3006) But it also has significant felt recoil.
The 243 is also a nice caliber for varmint shooting and small deer out to 200 maybe 250 with well placed shoots (shoot placement is everything no matter what caliber though) I use mine mostly on PD's.

If you want it strictly for a large varmint gun (here's were I'm going to get FLAMED) I would stick with a .223 or a 22-250 and the only reason is the large selection on factory ammo you can purchase and if you want to start reloading, there is an endless selection of bullets and powders to choose from.

If it is something you want to do, Purchase something that is rugged and you aren't worried about getting scratched up, But I wouldn't buy the cheapest I could find either.

Glass for the top don't scrimp here, you'll never be happy with a fussy cheap piece of glass on top (this will be a whole new post you will want to do.

Good luck and keep your powder dry

OH! almost forgot if you want it for PD's or sage rats that is a whole new ball game in its self

petemi · « **Reply #19 on:** March 26, 2008, 01:33:43 PM »

If you buy a rifle, I agree on the Handi in just about any popular caliber you like. Later, you can add other caliber barrels for 80 some odd bucks plus 25.00 for fitting and shipping. The shotgun barrels start in the 40 dollar area, and can be put on the same original rifle. It's a lot of bang for your buck. I went for a .22-250 as one of my Handis for chucks and coyotes way out there. We have a lot of large hay fields and pastures here.

petemi · « **Reply #20 on:** March 26, 2008, 01:43:08 PM »

I forgot to add, go to the H&R Talk forum and hang out a while, but be careful it is highly addictive. It will addle your brain.

Old Moss · « **Reply #21 on:** April 01, 2008, 05:01:24 PM »

azmark,

Lots of excellent advice, especially going hunting first with a borrowed rifle and someone who is experienced. Going out with another inexperienced hunter can turn one off to a really great sport, it also can start one out with bad habits. First make sure you like this type of hunting and get a feel for what rifle / caliber you want. Just for my 2 cents, bolt action in 22-250 or 220 swift for coyotes. good variable scope 3-9 with 50mm objective, don't skimp on the optics. I personally feel the 223 is a minimum caliber. But I have to admit that many a yote have ended up on a cabin wall because of the little 223.

Good luck and hope you learn to like predator hunting as much as the rest of us. Old Moss

kevthebassman · « **Reply #22 on:** April 01, 2008, 05:44:45 PM »

Quote from: Old Moss on April 01, 2008, 05:01:24 PM

I personally feel the 223 is a minimum caliber.

Now there's a can of worms.

Old Moss · « **Reply #23 on:** April 02, 2008, 05:54:10 PM »

Yep, I figure you got to open that can up once in awhile to let them worms breath a bit

kevthebassman · « **Reply #24 on:** April 02, 2008, 06:16:22 PM »

Well I know I've sure seen a pile of them laid low with .17's of all shapes and sizes, if you put it in their boiler room they don't know the difference between a 25 grain Berger and a bolt of lightning.

Take it in while you can, worms!