Author Topic: darn ...  (Read 1025 times)

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Offline kennisondan

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darn ...
« on: February 24, 2008, 03:52:33 PM »
Help !!! Man, I made up a hundred reloads with new brass and some 265 gr. beartooth gaschecked bullets, carefully crimped them in and >>> they do not fit my cylinders of the clements five shooter... ? the forward band on the keith swc is stopping the insertion of the round into the chamber by a couple of thousandths.. pushed hard enough to see what was holding them up and it is the lead band nearest the front.. I am astounded.. I guess it was a really stupid noob mistake but .. how do I know what will not fit...? have to stick to LFN's ? had a hundred of those cobbled up too and they fit great... same weight.. .. so ?
I knew the FAs sometimes disliked the SWC's but also thought the custom guns had large cylinder that would allow even longer than standard length rounds to be assembled... I am ticked : have to buy a puller ? how hard is it going to be to remove the hard crimped bullets crimped in the groove tightly to keep em from moving ? I guess i could just shoot them in my 460 encore barrel, but that was not the plan...
I was wondering, at ten grains of unique could they be fired in my step son's rodeo that I gave him ? they sound like they may be a bit on the hot side.
dk

Offline Tom W.

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Re: darn ...
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2008, 05:12:41 PM »
It ain't gonna be fun nor easy to pull those bullets..... Find something strong  that they fit and have a good plinking session. Unless you want to try one or two seated just a bit deeper, but then you'll have to watch for excessive pressure.
Tom
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I really like my handguns!

Offline Mikey

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Re: darn ...
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2008, 12:38:53 AM »
Dan - do not shoot the 10 gn of Unique under a 265 gn bullet from a 1873 clone, if that is what the Rodeo is - you are correct that it is too hot a load for a revolver of that design

Before you buy a bullet puller, if you do not have a factory taper crimp die, try resizing down the crimp by removing the primer decapping pin from the sizing die and running the crimped round just far enough into the resizing die to 'flatten' out the crimp, maybe half an inch or so.

If the problem is really the leading band on those slugs you will know it after trying the first 'resized' round.

It may be that you just have tight chambers that cannot fully appreciate all the effort you have gone to in order to assure a properly crimped load.  HTH.  Mikey.

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: darn ...
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2008, 12:56:36 AM »
I hate pulling bullets!! its about my most dreaded reloading chore right up there with trimming brass. to me it woud be a good excuse to buy a new gun!!
blue lives matter

Offline Ken ONeill

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Re: darn ...
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2008, 01:04:54 AM »
I hate pulling bullets!! its about my most dreaded reloading chore right up there with trimming brass. to me it woud be a good excuse to buy a new gun!!
Clearly, this was the proper answer !!!

Offline Graybeard

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Re: darn ...
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2008, 02:35:22 AM »
Understand I am NOT offering this as advice as to what YOU should do but am merely gonna tell ya what I have done in a similar situation. You do what you wish with the info.

Once when I had this problem I got out my sizer one without a deprime pin mind you and just rain the loaded rounds far enough into the sizer die to reduce that area so they would chamber in my gun. Worked fine for me. Have no clue what it would do in your case.


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Offline Savage

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Re: darn ...
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2008, 03:56:30 AM »
The resizing thing that Mikey referred to should do the trick. A little late, but when loading a new bullet profile, it's always good to chamber check the first few rounds before you load up a bucket full. Personally, I'd find a way to shoot them, even if it meant trimming back the lead shoulder of the bullet with a pocket knife!
Savage
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Offline kennisondan

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Re: darn ...
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2008, 07:56:59 AM »
I will shoot them somehow... I cannot conceive of removing lead from brass any other way... either the resizing method suggested or a dremel tool workover... or stuff those puppies in the 460sw mag encore and get aquainted with it with some really light loads for it LOL... I never wanted a bullet puller, still do not..
I did try a couple in the FA before working any up.. still have the dummy test without a primer in it and no powder... fit great..
Is that a commone problem with custom guns ? like the FA better see where the ogive is or how far forward the forward band can be ? ... I love the keith bullets, too; a blast from my past.. in my 44 ruger sbhawk that is all I shot with very few ewpeimental exceptions... love the look, I guess.. but like the lfngc as well... I have seen some charts tell that a bullet is suitable for all revolvers, ok for FA, ok for revolvers but not lever guns, etc. either I missed that or there was no warning... it looks like the whole band in front of the crimp is being scraped at the point in the cylinder where the cylinder has a step down smaller Diameter at the front... from the front of the cylinder, the bullet forward drive band will not enter there either.. the bullets are sized 452... if that is any difference...
will I just have to buy Long flat noses to be safe..? looks like the bullet will need to start to get smaller exactly at the end of the crimp groove...
do not want to waste money..
BTW what is the cheapest I can buy a ruger bullet puller with a lot of character, you think ? might just need a gun to shoot keith bullets and other difficult reloading snafus...
dk

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: darn ...
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2008, 12:49:20 PM »
just find a good used super blackhawk. The 7.5 inch ones can be found pretty cheap used.
I will shoot them somehow... I cannot conceive of removing lead from brass any other way... either the resizing method suggested or a dremel tool workover... or stuff those puppies in the 460sw mag encore and get aquainted with it with some really light loads for it LOL... I never wanted a bullet puller, still do not..
I did try a couple in the FA before working any up.. still have the dummy test without a primer in it and no powder... fit great..
Is that a commone problem with custom guns ? like the FA better see where the ogive is or how far forward the forward band can be ? ... I love the keith bullets, too; a blast from my past.. in my 44 ruger sbhawk that is all I shot with very few ewpeimental exceptions... love the look, I guess.. but like the lfngc as well... I have seen some charts tell that a bullet is suitable for all revolvers, ok for FA, ok for revolvers but not lever guns, etc. either I missed that or there was no warning... it looks like the whole band in front of the crimp is being scraped at the point in the cylinder where the cylinder has a step down smaller Diameter at the front... from the front of the cylinder, the bullet forward drive band will not enter there either.. the bullets are sized 452... if that is any difference...
will I just have to buy Long flat noses to be safe..? looks like the bullet will need to start to get smaller exactly at the end of the crimp groove...
do not want to waste money..
BTW what is the cheapest I can buy a ruger bullet puller with a lot of character, you think ? might just need a gun to shoot keith bullets and other difficult reloading snafus...
dk
blue lives matter

Offline myronman3

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Re: darn ...
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2008, 03:31:48 PM »
ya know,  if it is only a hundred rounds, with a puller of the hammer type and heavy bullets, it isnt so bad.  i pulled a hundred heavy crimped 454's and it was alot easier than i thought it would be.   that heavy slug pulls out with just a few wacks, far easier than rifle ammo. 
   i also experienced that problem with my f.a..  loved the gun,  but that tight throated bugger was a real pita getting my cast bullets to fit consistantly.   i have been there, done that.   and it does grind on ya.  my advise is pull the bullets,  and resize them.  i would use a .429 sizing die, and my bullets would spring back to .431 dia and wouldnt fit.  that cyclinder would NOT take a bullet that was more than .4295.   
    i committed the mistake you did twice, but i did check the first five to make sure they fit.  when they did,  i was off to the races making ammo.  i made up 600 rounds, only to find that about half of them would not fit.  good thing for me i have more than one 44.  the next time i loaded, io check the first ten rounds,  no problems,  off the races i went again.  approximately half the rounds i loaded would fit.   so there i sat again,  going through all those rounds one by one to see if they would fit in the cylinder. 
    now a smarter man than me would have gotten yet another sizing die,  probably a 428 to eliminate the problem,  but it was getting to be a whole lot of messing around for not much gain.   i ended up trading a guy for a smith 629 and money to make up the difference in value for the f.a., and i havent looked back.    there are times i miss that gun, but it sure is nice when all my bullets fall into that cylinder with no b.s..   truth be told,  the barrel length on that gun was more of a reason for me to trade it,  but the hassle was just the excuse i needed.   there will be another f.a. in my future,  but it will have a shorter barrel on it than the one i had.   
     

Offline oldandslow

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Re: darn ...
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2008, 03:50:32 PM »
I did basically the thing with a hundred 45 ACP. Altho not very far up my list of fun things to do, I pulled every one of them. It took two or three whacks for every one of them and a lot of mumbling and grumbling while I was doing it. After I finished I was surprised how little time it took to do it.

Offline blhof

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Re: darn ...
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2008, 04:00:50 PM »
I've done it with 45 acp and 357 max and used the sizer trick both times with no problems.  With hard alloy, like I use for the 357 max; I usually put a tiny rub of case lube on the band to make sizing easy, worked like a charm.  Without the lube, I pulled one slug and had to tap it out of the die.  I tried this after pulling about 20 bullets with the hammer style puller and the handle broke.

Offline MePlat

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Re: darn ...
« Reply #12 on: February 29, 2008, 01:24:12 AM »
If it just a small amount that needs to be taken off take some course steel wool and while you watch TV steel woll the front drive band till they fit.  Won't take long if some needs to be taken off the front edge.
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Offline warrior1

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Re: darn ...
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2008, 03:37:36 AM »
+1 to lloyd's suggestion. no wife in her right mind could possibly conceive an argument against
such a sound resolution to your dilema,unless of course she's an attorney.dan

just in case you decide to pull run each of them into your seating  die a bit to loosen the crimp.makes  pulling the bullet a little easier. dan
Dan Deluca aka "warrior1" has passed away.  Dan was a frequent poster here and on several other sites.  He passed away on 12/29/08 from a massive heart attack. RIP Dan.

Offline kennisondan

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Re: darn ...
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2008, 03:56:59 PM »
thanks all... I had to step out for a long while... I will use one or more of the methods...
dk