NEw England v.s. REmington

[Wana-Be-Hunter]

I am 13(Will be 14 soon.) And I want to get in to coyote hunting.(And other varmint) Ok, but 1st I need a gun. Now some ppl say spend less and get a NE(New England Single shot), but other ppl say spend a little more a get a Remington(A model 700 SPS Varmint from Dick's for $550 USD) Now I know nothing about NE(I don't even know what model I want.), but I have done a lot of research on Remington. I want to get a .243 and like I said I will hunt Varmint.(I can't hunt deer in my county, but I like .243 'cause I can if I have the opportunity.) Which one is worth it? And if you say NE. Please name some models. Thanks for listening.(P.S. If you think there is a better .243 pls tell me.)

[DalesCarpentry]

It would be very hard to beat the Remington 700 SPS Varmint 243 for out of the box accuracy. I have also owned H&R NEF rifles. I had NEF 243 Ultra Varmint it shot OK but nowhere near as good as my SPS. The Handi rifles ( That is what they are called ) are ok for beginers but many people have problems getting them to shoot good. The 243 Handi has given more problems than almost any other caliber made by them. You should visit the H&R NEF center fire rifle forum. There are a lot of good people there that can answer your questions. Tell them Dale sent you. Dale

[KN]

If you can afford $550 by all means get the Remington. Or if a single shot switch barrel is what you want go for an Encore. You'll be happier either way. NE's are functional but pretty low end in my opinion.   KN

[wareagleguy]

Glad to see another young person taking up shooting and hunting.  Good advice from others and I would suggest you look at the Savage line of rifles.  I purchased three this year and have less than $700.00 in all three and one was with a scope.  Find some pawn shops  or classifieds and you can find some bargins.

And you can get a new Savage a little cheaper than Remington and shoots just as good.  Tikka makes a rifle that is VERY accurate and very light.  Best to take your time and look and feel as many as you can.  Best to save your money and don't buy any rifle in a rush and you will be rewarded in a rifle you can spend a lifetime with.

Good hunting.

[summit]

I don't know where you live, but I live where there is a lot of desert and mountains.  We have to walk a lot to get anywhere.  So, I don't like really heavy guns very much.  I tried coyote hunting a lot in high school.  Never got one, but it was nice not to have to lug around a huge weapon.

[trotterlg]

Go with a bolt action of some sort.  Best buy going is the Stevens 200, it is a Savage without the accutrigger, can be had for under $300.00 I think, it is made in .243 and it will probably out shoot both the Remington or the H&R.  Larry

[Coyote Hunter]

Wana-be-hunter –
At age 13-14 I suspect your finances are a bit on the thin side.  Rather than a .243 I’d recommend a .223 as ammo is MUCH less expensive and I’m guessing that since you don’t even have rifle you don’t reload.  A .223 makes a great varmint cartridge.  I have a .22-250 and a .223 would have worked for the vast majority of shots I’ve taken.

Granted, that does not help you come time to hunt deer, at least in some states like Colorado where a .243 is the minimum for deer.  But here’s a solution – for the price of the Remington you can easily get TWO rifles, a .223 and something else for deer.  The recommendation for a Savage or Stevens is a good one.  Dad gave me a sporter-weight Savage in .22-250 that would put several shots into a 100-yard group that you could cover with a dime.  That rifle got traded away after we had put some 4,000+ rounds downrange and the barrel finally gave out.  The Stevens rifles are basically like my old Savage but with a synthetic stock rather than a wooden one.  You can always replace the stock later if you choose, and they are regularly available for $249 here in Colorado.  The money you save will buy a LOT of ammo.

The Remington will look nicer and may even shoot slightly smaller groups.  That said, I’ve found that in the field marginally better group sizes are secondary to range and wind estimation and don’t buy much.

[beemanbeme]

Son, owning a Savage is like dating an ugly woman. She may warm your back and be a good cook but you sure as hell don't want to be seen in public with her.  If you can afford the Remington, get the Remington.  I would get it in a sporter weight because they can get awfully heavy at the end of the day.  And too, a sporter weight Remington can be tuned to shoot dang near as fine as a target model.  Especially when you start talking about field position shots.
If you can't afford the Remington, I'd get the NE and look at it as a learning device.  There's a lot more to shooting and varmint hunting than meets the eye.  IMO, it'd be better to get frustrated and throw a NE rifle and a BSA scope in the river than say $1200 worth of varmint rig. Once you get your skills honed, move up to a better rig when you have a better idea of what you need for your area.
I agree with the idea of getting a .223. You'll get a lot more bang for your bucks. Milsup and remanufactured ammo is so cheap that it's hardly worthwhile to reload unless you're target shooting.

[sniperVLS]

Son, owning a Savage is like dating an ugly woman. She may warm your back and be a good cook but you sure as hell don't want to be seen in public with her.  If you can afford the Remington, get the Remington.  I would get it in a sporter weight because they can get awfully heavy at the end of the day.  And too, a sporter weight Remington can be tuned to shoot dang near as fine as a target model.  Especially when you start talking about field position shots.
If you can't afford the Remington, I'd get the NE and look at it as a learning device.  There's a lot more to shooting and varmint hunting than meets the eye.  IMO, it'd be better to get frustrated and throw a NE rifle and a BSA scope in the river than say $1200 worth of varmint rig. Once you get your skills honed, move up to a better rig when you have a better idea of what you need for your area.
I agree with the idea of getting a .223. You'll get a lot more bang for your bucks. Milsup and remanufactured ammo is so cheap that it's hardly worthwhile to reload unless you're target shooting.

Oh boy oh boy......

 

[wareagleguy]

Yea, I was a Savage Snob for years but I tried one and changed my mind real quick.  When you get that $200 rifle to out shoot the other guys $1200 rigs you can just see the steam rise.  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and when you shoot 1/2 groups it becomes a thing of beauty.   

You are buying the rifle so get one that YOU like but I suggest you take a good look at used rifles cause you can find great deals.

[Wana-Be-Hunter]

Hey, thanks for all the replies. Well, it looks like NE didn't get any ones vote. Some of you are saying .223. Well, I get your point in being cheaper, but I have two uncles that reload. One uncle I go every other week.(I try) So, I will probably stick with the .243 , 'cause I will probably be able to reload it. Now some ppl say savage other ppl say Remington. I don't know I really like the look of the Remington, and I don't really like the look of the Savages. It's not all about looks(But its nice to have a good lookin rifle), but ppl say that the Remington shoots better. I think it is wiser to invest in a better gun that I will use for a while.(I don't want to up-grade from .223 to .243) And for cash I have a dirt bike I am selling (That I bought myself) and a birthday coming up. So, I have enough. I think I covered it all.Well, thanks for the replies.  .

[dw06]

Since you have the cash or will,buy the Remington,you will never regret it and it will be a lifetime investment.Nothing wrong with the savage or the handi rifles as I own both,but the remington 700 is hard to beat and would serve you well.Be sure and let us know what you get and hoe it works for you.And welcome to G.B.O.

[Freezer]

    If you have the cash to spend I still wouldn't rule out the Savage.  At your age the most important consideration should be fit.  If you get a stock that's too long you will not shoot worth a hoot.  Carrying the thing is another consideration.  Carrying a gun that's too heavy all day is very tiring especially if you hunt steep terrain.  Been threre and done that too many times. Also, heavy guns don't swing fast so I wouldn't buy a varmint gun if you want to carry it for deer.
  If your buying new don't be quick  to buy that pretty stock, it won't serve you long!  Your growing so wait till your 18 to 21 before you look for a nice stock.  Get the stock to fit you now then add thicker recoil pads and spacers as you grow. 
    If your buying new or used take your gun to a gunsmith and have the trigger looked at.  Too lite is dangerous and too heavy isn't accurate.  Barrel brake-in is another isssue you'll need to learn about if you buy new.  From your posts I believe your a very responsible young man with good mentors.  Take thier advise seriously.  They know you and the areas you'll hunt. Keep asking questions here, there are alot of very knowlagible people here that will jump at the chance to help you.
    In defence of the NEF Handi rifle.  My son, brother, hunting partner and I both own one.  The barrels take some time to break in but they are good accuraterate inexpensive hunting rifles.  They have heavy triggers out of the box but in IMO most rifles do.  The advantages of the NEF are:  The have alot of different barrels you can put on the same frame including muzzel loaders, slug, turkey and regular shotgun barrels with screw in chokes in 410, 20 and 12 guage, and rifle barrels in any caliber you need.  They also have inexpensive stocks that are made in both youth and adult size.  As inexpensive as the stocks are you can get a new one as you grow and cut it to fit.  Most shotgun barrels are $50 to $75 and rifle barrels are around $100.  Go to the NEF website and look at their barrel exchange program and accessories.  It's The only inexpensive long gun that can do anything.  That type of versility can open more hunting opertunities.
  The Thompson Center Encore is by far a better gun but you'll pay alot more for it and each barrel is about $250 but it's a great gun and you'll hunt with it the rest of your life.  It just cost more for everything.  One other advantage of the Encoore is it can be made into a single shot pistol if you want when you come of age.
    Welcome to Greybeard
   

[Wana-Be-Hunter]

Now is there a big difference in performance in getting a reg. SPS over  a Varmint SPS?

[DalesCarpentry]

The SPS Varmint comes with a bull barrel. That is a heavy barrel. With the bull barrel you will be able to shoot more rounds before it gets to hot to shoot. Bull barrels in my opinion are more accurate. There are many that will disagree with me on this and I just like bull barrels. The regular SPS comes with a lighter weight barrel and many say they shoot just as well as the bull barrels. I think it is just personal preference here. Dale

[Wana-Be-Hunter]

Now you have a Varmint SPS. Is it hard to carry around all day? For my age I am pretty big.(5'8" & 130Lb.) So, I think I could sport a nice sized rifle. But is it hard to carry it around all day? This doesn't matter as much, but the Varmint looks better.

[DalesCarpentry]

Yes it is a heavy rifle and with scope and bipod it is over 10 pounds. Yes it is heavy to carry all day. Dale

[Freezer]

    Make your first rifle a sporter weight.  I'm 5'8" 180lbs.  The terrain I hunt is steep and I carry a Savage 99 feather lite lever action rifle weighing less than 6lbs.  It's chambered in 308 and will shoot vary accurately out to 300yrds.  I also have a Rem BDL chambered in 280 Rem.  It weighs close to 8lbs.  That two lbs makes a big difference in how the gun carries and handles..  On the other hand a varmint gun is not meant to be carried all day.  Normally you'll attach a bi-pod or have it on a bench so you can keep it steady.  It's hard to shoot a varmint rifle well off hand.  For coyote a good deer rifle would be great, even ground hog because you'll be lucky to get a few shots a day.  Ground squirrel, prairie dog and distance target shooting are a different story.  It isn't unusual to shoot over100 rounds or more. 
    Talk to your uncles, where will you be hunting and what kind of terrain.  Steep and heavy woods call for a lite gun,  bean and corn fields you'll want distance and weight is less important but for a few shots a day the sporter is fine. 

     By the way, look in the Custom forum "built vs bought".  There are some good rules of thumb in there.

    Hay first things first!  Do you have a .22?  If not get one first and practice, practice, practice.  Being a good hunter means being a good shot and that takes practice.  Can are good and fun but paper is better.  My favorite guns are .22s and I shoot them often.  Why?  Because they're  cheap and fun to shoot meaning I get lots of pratice.  A brick of .22 (500 rnds) costs about $15.  Twenty good hand loads cost at least $5.

[Wana-Be-Hunter]

Hey, Ya I do have a .22. It's a Savage Arms Mark II GL. I like it a lot.

[Freezer]

   Now that's great news   What kind of scope were you thinking of?  IMHO you can't beat a Leupold!  Have you figured in the cost of the scope?

[Wana-Be-Hunter]

   Now that's great news   What kind of scope were you thinking of?  IMHO you can't beat a Leupold!  Have you figured in the cost of the scope?

               Well, the Remington comes with a Remington 4-12x40mm scope. IDK if it is any good. It is at Dick's. The gun is $550 USD w/ scope and w/o the scope I think it is like $515-$525 USD. So, I don't know if it is worth it. I don't need anything fancy.

[Freezer]

   Be sure what scope your getting.  If need be buy it with the scope then save for a good one ($250-$300). You just will not believe what a difference a good scope makes till you see them side by side.  If the scope on the rifle isn't of good quailty when you replace it you can put it on your .22

[Wana-Be-Hunter]

Ya, ok.I will do that. Now what is the big deff between the two?

[Freezer]

It's all in what you can or can't see.  In Pa there is an eight point minimum  limit on buck.  With poor optics (scope or binoculars) you won't be counting horns but you'll know it's a buck if it's light enough.  Good optics are clearer, you can see through them earlier and later in the day because the gather light better and they don't distort the image near the edge of the glass. They're also water proof and fog proof.  If your scope fogs up your hunt is over unless you can remove it and use iron sites.  Then there's the warranty.  A Leupold is VXII and up are guaranteed for life.  Less expensive scopes you'll have to pay to get fixed or buy another.  All my guns wear Leupold but this is a good question for another post.  I'm sure there are folks who would swear by other brands. 

By the way what state and what kind of deer will you hunt?  .243 is good for medium sized whitetail but a mule deer... I'd re-think my caliber and maybe get a 308.  If your gona spend that much money make sure the rifle isn't a one trick pony.

[Wana-Be-Hunter]

Hey, Thanks for that insight.(But aren't they really expensive?) Well I can't hunt deer in my county. But if I ever do(Uncles or somewheres else) I live in eastern NY.  

[Freezer]

    Well that's why we're talking! You seem like a very responsible young man.   
    If I remember correctly NY is shotgun only for deer.  That said I still like (and own) a NEF Handi Rifle and my brother has two, one for himself and one for his son (Pa hunters).  My hunting partner and sons (2) have one too.  We all have multiple barrels for each including shot gun barrels (Cal hunters).  Mine started as a 25-06 (30-06 necked down to 25 caliber) for varmint   Your nice Rem will be a one trick pony, it can only hunt one thing in NY, varmint.  Get the .243.  You don't walk around all day looking for yotes or ground hog so a varmint barrel won't hurt but I'd still stay with a sporter just my opinion.
    Good optics are never cheep but are worth every penny.  A Leupold VXII should be close to $300.  There are some good scopes for about $200 but I haven't tried them.There are also some good used scopes out there like Redfield and Weaver but research before you buy.  Bushnell makes some great scopes but they also make some junk.  You get what you pay for.
     Back to what I said before, the NEF has many inexpensive barrels including rifled slug, muzzle loader and turkey barrels.  They are easy to change with a #3 screw driver.  With quick detach mounts a good scope can be switched to a different barrel or you could use open sights.  A quick trip to the range to sight in and you're ready to go on any hunt that's available.
   Go to the NEF forum and ask some questions.  Look at the NEF classified forum.  If you buy a NEF Handi Rifle, have the trigger done right and a stock that fits with a good recoil pad, you'll still have money for a scope and slug barrel.  If you got their muzzle loading barrel it extends your range and season with less people in the woods.  The major plus is one frame can be fitted with a rifle, shotgun, slug, or muzzle loading barrel.  No barrel will cost more than $100.  No they're not pretty but I and four people I hunt with one one
    IMHO don't limit yourself.  If there's hunting to do make sure you're available to go with a gun of your own.  There's a very old saying, "Beware the man who owns one gun, he probably knows how to use it."
     Three other things 1)  There are other forums on this site visit them and read them.  Nothing excites a man more than passing what he knows to the next generation and this is a great web site for that.
                                2)  A quote from Clint Eastwood, "A mans got to know his limitations. "  There are allot of folks here that love and have the money for fine guns.  There are others that don't.  You may have the means to get a slug gun, varmint gun,shotgun and muzzle loader. I don't know, but think it over and "Know your limitations".  I had to work all summer to earn the money for my first deer rifle, a Winchester that I still own.  If you have money to burn buy an Encore.  When you have one shot and one gun you know your limitations.(There's a T/C, Encore forum here too.)
                                3)  Talk to the people that will take you to hunting, they should know their limitations and yours too.  They'll be happy to add their thoughts and hunting experience.  None will laugh when you show up with the same gun for rabbit, deer, varmint and turkey because it will be the right gun for the job.

[Wana-Be-Hunter]

If I remember correctly NY is shotgun only for deer.

        No, you can hunt with rifle in some counties.(Deer)


                                   A lot of ppl are pushing Encore. I Just Don't know though. Hhhhmmmmm.................. I' ll have ot think about it. Thanks for the Three things things. I like this

There's a very old saying, "Beware the man who owns one gun, he probably knows how to use it."

[Freezer]

  Encore is one heck of a gun.  The barrels are about $250 each but don't need broken in like a NEF.  It all depends on what your current and future budget will afford.  It is the rich cousin to the NEF plus the Encore has pistol barrels, something to think about for later on  
  My local gun store owner put it about as good as I heard it said.  "For every penny a company has to spend producing a product they have to charge .06 cents more for that product."  There the difference in quality.  Metal finish, wood finish, type of wood  (or synthetic composition) and wood to metal fit.  All effect the cost of the weapon.  Not necessarily the function.  Savage isn't pretty but they sure shoot and have great triggers right out of the box. As a matter of fact "Shooting Times" credits Savage for forcing all the other rifle manufacturers to change their trigger design to a higher standard.  Imagine that a fat girl forcing all the foxy ones to change LOL.  NEF isn't pretty either but if you clean them up and break in their barrels correctly they'll hold their own for allot less money and you'll have every barrel you'll need til you can afford or need a one trick pony.
   By the way if you uncles hunt the counties where a rifle is permitted the 243 isn't a bad choice but I'd still prefer a 308. IMHO