Author Topic: mosin nagant problem..... (Read 3090 times)

markp · « **on:** February 25, 2008, 11:56:59 AM »

I pickup up a mosin nagant 91/30 and a box of winchester 7.62 x 54r 180 grain soft points. after cleaning the gun and getting ready to shoot i found the bolt would not close on the cartridge. it nearly closes. has anyone experianced this before?
any suggestions?

Spanky · « **Reply #1 on:** February 25, 2008, 12:11:09 PM »

Try chambering a round and closing the bolt with more force.
When you close the bolt you are forcing the extractor up over the rim and it takes a firm motion.

I have a Russian 91/30 and it shoots Romanian surplus ammo very well.

Have fun with it!!

Spanky

schnarrgj · « **Reply #2 on:** February 25, 2008, 01:46:29 PM »

Yes I have had that problem with both 91/30's and M44s. As posted above, just use a little more pressure. Some rifles do not like certain types of ammo. It is either the extractor or the rims on that lot are a little thick.

Stan in SC · « **Reply #3 on:** February 25, 2008, 02:20:30 PM »

There are a lot of ammunition rounds that a Mosin will not close on.I have a Mosin M39 that absolutely will not close on a lot of Albanian surplus rounds.Some rounds have a base that's just too thick for that particular rifle.Try different ammunition.

Stan

markp · « **Reply #4 on:** February 25, 2008, 02:33:15 PM »

It appears this is a common problem. Using all my strength i was able to close the bolt one time on one of the winchester rounds. i will try other ammo. I need softpoint as i hope to use it on deer in the future. any softpoint ammo suggestions that might function beter in this rifle??

bluebayou · « **Reply #5 on:** February 25, 2008, 03:14:28 PM »

Barnaul is a Russian brand. They load under many names, Barnaul, Silver Bear, Brown Bear, some Monarch is also imported Barnaul.

There is Silver Bear and Barnaul branded 203 gr Soft Points for $6-7 on the internet. Can send you link if you want.

Mikey · « **Reply #6 on:** February 25, 2008, 03:47:01 PM »

I have not had a problem with the Sellier and Bellot ammo for those rifles. I believe they make it with both 180 and 200 gn bullets. Mikey.

jmayton · « **Reply #7 on:** February 26, 2008, 06:42:51 PM »

My M44 had a similar problem. I've used the FMJ Military surplus ammo as well as Silver Bear. Both had the problem. I would just whack the bolt hard on closing. I had a few stick once fired as well. So I scrubbed the chamber with solvent and a 20ga brass brush connected to a drill. After that, I've had few problems. So it may have been a buildup of old cosmolene in the chamber causing my problem.

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #8 on:** February 26, 2008, 07:01:48 PM »

Use the bolt to chamber a cartridge and they eject the loaded cartridge. DO THIS AT THE RANGE! Examine the bullet for rifling marks. If you see any rifling marks, the ammo that you are using has the bullet set too far forward for your rifle and is touching the rifling. I have had this happen with other rifles. In extreme conditions, the rifling might hold the bullet tight enough to retain it when you attempt to extract the cartridge. If that happens, remove it with a cleaning rod inserted from the muzzle. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO SHOOT IT OUT!

markp · « **Reply #9 on:** February 27, 2008, 02:35:20 AM »

I suspect it is too thick of brass. If i had a bullet puller i guess i could try to chamber an empty piece of brass to determine if
it was a problem with over all length. if the bullet were touching the rifling could this not cause excessive pressure if a cartridge were shot??

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #10 on:** February 27, 2008, 01:52:58 PM »

Quote from: markp on February 27, 2008, 02:35:20 AM

I suspect it is too thick of brass. If i had a bullet puller i guess i could try to chamber an empty piece of brass to determine if
it was a problem with over all length. if the bullet were touching the rifling could this not cause excessive pressure if a cartridge were shot??

I would assume that the brass was within spec, but you never know until you check. If you don't have a bullet puller, use pliers.

Yes, a bullet touching the rifling could cause excessive pressure.

markp · « **Reply #11 on:** March 03, 2008, 04:35:08 AM »

I found some silver bear 185 grain fmj. The bolt will close with a little effort. next question, is silver bear, wolf and the other russian imports corrisive ammo??? i know they say non corrisive. also do any of these come in soft point. good thing is the gun seems to shoot ok. was kind of fun shooting it. i am almost tempted to buy the short version also . m44 i think? thanks for the all the replys.

fastbike · « **Reply #12 on:** March 03, 2008, 12:09:43 PM »

The new imports are not corrosive. All surplus should be treated as corrosive. Barnaul makes soft points in 203gr IIRC. The M44 will give quite a kick, especially w/ 203gr.

Quote from: markp on March 03, 2008, 04:35:08 AM

I found some silver bear 185 grain fmj. The bolt will close with a little effort. next question, is silver bear, wolf and the other russian imports corrisive ammo??? i know they say non corrisive. also do any of these come in soft point. good thing is the gun seems to shoot ok. was kind of fun shooting it. i am almost tempted to buy the short version also . m44 i think? thanks for the all the replys.

markp · « **Reply #13 on:** March 09, 2008, 02:54:17 PM »

I am up to four brands of ammo. Two of them russian. The best i get is about half will chamber with effort the other half will not. kind of detracts from the fun of shooting the gun. Any other ideas or shall i desinate this one as a wall hanger???

rbergum95 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 09, 2008, 03:23:47 PM »

shoot what the gun will chamber, or trade it in on another one. i had the same problem on my first m39. wouldnt close without a hammer. took it back to the gunshop i boutght it at and they gave me another one that works fine.

markp · « **Reply #15 on:** March 09, 2008, 05:39:44 PM »

the gun shop i bought this gun from is horrible at customer service. in fact i have to hold my nose i dislike them so much when i ocationaly buy a gun there. but they have the lowest prices. i don't think i will seek satisfaction as it won't likely be forthcoming. i will accept the loss. i would however love to have a good working mosin-nagant. how common is this problem? if i buy another. think i may try an m-44. will i likely run into the same problem??

S.S. · « **Reply #16 on:** March 09, 2008, 06:14:39 PM »

sounds like a headspace problem to me. changing ammo brands will make no difference here.
search somewhere like Midway for a 7.62x53 headspace gage and see what it shows.

torpedoman · « **Reply #17 on:** March 09, 2008, 07:19:50 PM »

common problem the Winchester has a very thick base mine needs really forced down on it while s&b works great. actually a good thing probably means you have a tight chamber.

Castaway · « **Reply #18 on:** March 10, 2008, 01:22:25 AM »

All good advice, but I offer another cause for Moisin problems. The case rim is a unique beveled design. As stated, probably a brass problem, but look at your extractor and see if there are any burrs that may be hanging up when trying to chamber a round or if the extractor is bumping the rim, not allowing it to ride over the top.

Castaway · « **Reply #19 on:** March 10, 2008, 03:03:06 AM »

Or... back to the brass problem, the brass may not have the proper rim bevel.

Steve P · « **Reply #20 on:** March 10, 2008, 09:27:45 AM »

I have several Moisins and have not had this problem. I have PMC ammo and Seller and Belloit. The S&B doesn't have reloading life like some of the other brands, but it sure shoots well. My M44 and M59 are very accurate with this stuff. So accurate that I went back to the dealer and bought a case of the same lot of it.

There have been lots of good suggestions here. No one has mentioned taking the gun to a local gunsmith and have him try go and no go gages in it. If he has a finish reamer, a few turns of the reamer could resolve your problem.

If you need to give that gun away, I can send you my address and FFL........

Steve

markp · « **Reply #21 on:** March 10, 2008, 08:21:53 PM »

but look at your extractor and see if there are any burrs that may be hanging up when trying to chamber a round or if the extractor is bumping the rim, not allowing it to ride over the top.

castaway you may be on to somthing. The extractor dosn't seem to want to ride up over the rim. there seems to be a crease
on the extracter, possible where the rim is hitting it. if i take the bolt out of the rifle and hand feed a peice of brass into it and then put the bolt into the gun the brass will somtimes chamber smooth as can be. no live rounds or brass has fed into the chamber with out a fight otherwise.

markp · « **Reply #22 on:** March 11, 2008, 01:57:29 PM »

I had my cronograph out to run a few 6mm and 222 rounds over it and decieded to see what the s & b 7.62 x 54 would clock. for the record the 180 grain softpoint clocked 2592 out of the 91/30. not sure if the barrel is 28 or 30 inches ?
if the bullet is good this would send an elk to heaven in short order. I guess i ll finish sighting it in and if it groups ok
i will take it deer hunting later with 6 rounds that i have tested to make sure they will chamber.

Castaway · « **Reply #23 on:** March 11, 2008, 02:09:16 PM »

It's been my experience with Moisin"s they group higher than the point of aim at 100 yards, even with the rear sight lowered completely. Where was yours impacting?

markp · « **Reply #24 on:** March 11, 2008, 03:49:42 PM »

I have yet to get much of a chance to see how it groups. next weekend time permiting i will get more of a chance to shoot it on paper. I am used to scopes so this may take some doing for me.

Mohawk · « **Reply #25 on:** March 23, 2008, 12:33:55 AM »

Never worry about he ammo being corrosive. After your range session just alternate wet/dry patches using ammonia. I prefer lemon scented

After several you will actually hear the last patches squeak which means it is clean as a whistle. Make your last patch a oil patch to preserve the metal for storage. Wipe the bolt face with a wet ammonia patch also. Ammonia inerts the corrosive salts that are deposited from corrosive ammo.

JustaShooter · « **Reply #26 on:** March 23, 2008, 08:59:33 AM »

Sorry, but ammonia does not do anything to neutralize the corrosive salts left from firing ammo with corrosive primers. That said, I use ammonia-based window cleaner on my milsurp rifles, but it is the water and physical scrubbing that kills the salts, not the ammonia.

See http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews2006/alittlesalt/index.asp for a nicely done comparison of various popular solvents and their effectiveness on neutralizing / removing the corrosive salts.

Just a Shooter

Mohawk · « **Reply #27 on:** March 23, 2008, 10:04:43 AM »

Wow, what a persuasive, informative, yet coma inducing article! I went the short route and sat through a lecture from a World War 2 ordnance officer retired from Springfield Armory Wow, I bet them Garands would have worked if they knew all that chemistry. And yet you still use ammonia-based window cleaner after all those products are recommended? Why?

JustaShooter · « **Reply #28 on:** March 23, 2008, 03:51:16 PM »

I use an ammonia-based window cleaner as the 1st step in my cleaning process because it is cheap, easy to work with, cuts through the crud, it is cheap, transports better than hot water (I do this cleaning step at the range usually), and as I understand it, helps remove some of the copper fouling as well. Besides, it is cheap - I'm still working through a gallon of concentrate my wife bought several years ago...

From what I've been able to tell from reading up on the chemistry involved, hot water really is the best way to remove the corrosive salts. A little soap or other surfactant helps remove some of the other crud, ammonia cuts through grease and oils, so ammonia-based window cleaner seems to me to be the best option when lots of hot water isn't easily available.

Just a Shooter

Mohawk · « **Reply #29 on:** March 23, 2008, 08:45:55 PM »

I know what you mean. I'm still working on the same gallon since 2005. It works well on the cosmoline as long as it is not too thick. I used quite a bit of it when I worked at a gun shop whenever we would get a shipment of Yugo AK's.