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Author Topic: Too Hot for encore?  (Read 1489 times)

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Offline vanbuzen9

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Too Hot for encore?
« on: February 26, 2008, 02:54:30 PM »
Hello guys,

I was just browsing through midway the other day, and started looking at the performance of buffalo bore ammo for the 45-70.  This stuff is +P and only for use in certain firearms, the encore being one of them.  I then looked at my hornady loading manual, and the loads they have listed in there are even hotter than the buffalo bore ammo!  For example, the buffalo bore 500 gr. solids are loaded to around 1600 fps (on box).  In my hornady manual, they list a few 500 gr. loads at 1800 fps!  Also, in the statement given in the manual, it says these loads are only for the ruger #1, and a few other various guns I've never heard of before, the encore not being one of them.  Are these loads safe for use in the encore, or just the ruger #1?  Any help would be great!

thanks,
vanbuzen9
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Offline KN

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Re: Too Hot for encore?
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2008, 10:53:08 PM »
I loaded and shot some 510gr Hornady bullets in a 450 marlin barrel without any problems. The 450 load data should be about the same as #1 45/70 data.
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Offline EdK

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Re: Too Hot for encore?
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2008, 12:10:33 AM »
There's a lot of talk on forums that Encores should be able to handle Ruger #1 loads (level 3) - not from me though. If it is not published data it may not be safe in your firearm.

Here's something to consider: the Buffalo Bore and Garrett ammo is extremely effective in its' own right (and punishing enough to the shooter). Testimonials on Garrett's web site speak of shooting though Alaskan game lengthwise! Many Ruger #1 owners who dare to try the Ruger-only loads try only once. Most rifles chambered for the 458 Win Mag (similar to 45-70 level 3) are a lot heavier than a Ruger # 1 or Encore. The level 2 loads have really proven themselves. Do you really need anything more?

If it is just out of curiosity then fine. However I don't think you are going to get a definitive answer. I know of no load info that includes the Encore with Ruger #1 et al at the head of the level 3 tables.
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Offline vanbuzen9

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Re: Too Hot for encore?
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2008, 03:47:47 AM »
EdK,

You do have a good point, and yes, this is only me being curious.  I am not going to hunt anything big enough to utilize something like those, and if I did, it would be something that could shoot a little bit farther!

vanbuzen9
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Offline bustedknee

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Re: Too Hot for encore?
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2008, 08:49:40 AM »
45-70?  Oh, Poo!

I have a heavy Bullberry (Encore) barrel in 458 Win Mag.  I haven't had the time to shoot it but a couple times, but I plan to work up some loads next summer.

The gun weighs 12 lbs without the scope.  I also had "The Answer" muzzle brake installed.  It is actually pleasant to shoot.

Fred did tell me, "The lighter loads will cause less wear on the gun and shooter".

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Offline KN

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Re: Too Hot for encore?
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2008, 12:27:36 PM »
Just my opinion, but if the Encore couldn't handle #1 loads I don't believe they would have chambered it in 450 Marlin.   KN
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Offline Davemuzz

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Re: Too Hot for encore?
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2008, 12:57:46 PM »
Easy way to find out......just call T\C and ask 'em. IMHO if the load say's it's just for a Ruger #1...then it's just for a Ruger #1. Sumpin to do with frame stretch.  :'( :o :P

Dave
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Too Hot for encore?
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2008, 01:21:18 PM »
Considering MGM offers .458 Lott barrels for the Encore, I hardly think Ruger level, or more properly named "modern rifle" level 45-70 loads are too much for the Encore frame, although it would likely be too much for most shooters! :o

Tim

http://matchgrademachine.com/gunshop/product.php?productid=17296&cat=326&page=1
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Offline Varmint Hunter

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Re: Too Hot for encore?
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2008, 10:23:30 AM »
Quote from: quickdtoo on February 28, 2008, 01:21:18 PM
Considering MGM offers .458 Lott barrels for the Encore, I hardly think Ruger level, or more properly named "modern rifle" level 45-70 loads are too much for the Encore frame, although it would likely be too much for most shooters! :o
Tim
http://matchgrademachine.com/gunshop/product.php?productid=17296&cat=326&page=1

HOW MUCH DOES A GUY HAVE TO HATE HIMSELF BEFORE BUYING ONE OF THOSE 458 LOTT BARRELS?  :o ;D :o

Sounds like Encore assisted suicide!!!!
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Too Hot for encore?
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2008, 12:03:02 PM »
Actually the .458 Lott has no more case head thrust (bolt thrust) than a 375H&H or 338 WinMag, they all have the same size case head and SAAMI max average pressure of 62kpsi, the Lott just shoots heavier bullets, and hence has more "entire rifle thrust" or recoil!! ;D

Tim

http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/aicompare.cgi?sn=LCKYsTmrAt&loadset=28&xxglbl=1

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/custom_actions/bolt_lug_strength.htm

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm
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Offline encore58

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Re: Too Hot for encore?
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2008, 02:34:37 PM »
I shot my buddies Lott in a #1 and didn't think is was all that bad.
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Offline Gary paugh

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Re: Too Hot for encore?
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2008, 02:44:13 PM »
I sold my ruger #1  45/70 and built an encore 45/70 with a 24" bull barrel and I'm much happier shooting my wuss loads of a 350gr hornady RN at 2100fps.

Gary
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Offline EdK

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Re: Too Hot for encore?
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2008, 08:37:21 AM »
Quote from: encore58 on March 02, 2008, 02:34:37 PM
I shot my buddies Lott in a #1 and didn't think is was all that bad.

Ruger #1 in 45-70 = 7.25lbs
Ruger #1 in 458 Lott = 9 lbs
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Offline encore58

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Re: Too Hot for encore?
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2008, 03:36:09 PM »
Quote from: EdK on March 03, 2008, 08:37:21 AM
Quote from: encore58 on March 02, 2008, 02:34:37 PM
I shot my buddies Lott in a #1 and didn't think is was all that bad.

Ruger #1 in 45-70 = 7.25lbs
Ruger #1 in 458 Lott = 9 lbs
AND, what is your point? I don't think 1.5#'s makes that much difference. Recoil is not a problem unless i am shooting a Ruger Redhawk with wood grips and 454 casull or above.  :o ;D ;) :P :'(
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Offline EdK

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Re: Too Hot for encore?
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2008, 01:46:00 AM »
Apparently all of the African game gunmakers the world over don't agree with you.

Tell us more about your Ruger Bisley in 454 Casull. Must be a limited edition as I have not heard about them.
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Offline encore58

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Re: Too Hot for encore?
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2008, 11:34:26 AM »
Quote from: EdK on March 05, 2008, 01:46:00 AM
Apparently all of the African game gunmakers the world over don't agree with you.

Tell us more about your Ruger Bisley in 454 Casull. Must be a limited edition as I have not heard about them.
Lighten up dude. Did you notice the emoticons? I wasn't making an argument about Big Game rifles and are you saying the "Big Game Hunters" are wussies. ::)  btw, I meant Redhawk. My bad. The Bisley I owned was in 44 mag and the Redhawk was in 454. Didn't care for either one. The Ruger #1 isn't all that bad in 458 Lott. Some people handle recoil different than others. I know people who think the 30-06 has too much recoil. Too each his/her own.
To get back on topic, I don't think the Encore will have any problems handling hot 45/70 loads and agree with Tim on this one.
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Offline Varmint Hunter

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Re: Too Hot for encore?
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2008, 01:30:25 PM »
Quote from: quickdtoo on March 02, 2008, 12:03:02 PM
Actually the .458 Lott has no more case head thrust (bolt thrust) than a 375H&H or 338 WinMag, they all have the same size case head and SAAMI max average pressure of 62kpsi, the Lott just shoots heavier bullets, and hence has more "entire rifle thrust" or recoil!! ;D

Hey Tim,

I'm  ;D over here reading your post. We should rate all the monster Encores by their ERT value (entire rifle thrust). You might just be on to something!  ;)
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Too Hot for encore?
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2008, 01:38:59 PM »
Well, lots of someones have already done that.... ;D

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

Here's some ERT and then some!! :o

Tim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4juEIK_zRM

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Offline encore58

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Re: Too Hot for encore?
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2008, 04:03:48 PM »
Quote from: quickdtoo on March 06, 2008, 01:38:59 PM
Well, lots of someones have already done that.... ;D

 


Hey Tim, I like to shoot "Big Game Hunter" rifles. It is a great stress reliever.

 ;D >:( :o 8) ::) :P :-X :'(
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Offline Keith L

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Re: Too Hot for encore?
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2008, 08:33:07 PM »
I think I picked up a flinch just watching the video...
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Offline Davemuzz

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Re: Too Hot for encore?
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2008, 12:20:56 AM »
Well......I;m not buying a 22lr now! This one has just a wee bit more recoil. I'm savin  my pennies.  :P

Dave
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Offline Varmint Hunter

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Re: Too Hot for encore?
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2008, 04:03:34 AM »
Quote from: quickdtoo on March 06, 2008, 01:38:59 PM
Well, lots of someones have already done that.... ;D
http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm
Here's some ERT and then some!! :o
Tim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4juEIK_zRM

Very few things in life can make me laugh out loud. That video is definitely one of them. Even though I've seen it before it still cracks me up! :o ;D :o
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