How do you feel about American Muslims?

[ironglow]

Torpedoman;

  I really doubt a major attack before the election, they know that if they hit us  hard before the election, folks will likely vote for an administration that would kick terrorist butt..they sure don't want to cause that !
   After election, they are likely to hit us if possible..no matter who gets in ! What we have to be concerned with after that is ..Do we have an Admin that would rather FIGHT terrorism..or one that would rather "cut and run"..  It's all up to US guys...

   News: Hamas leader calls murder of seminary students, "heroic"...        http://new.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7282269.stm

[DalesCarpentry]

Torpedoman;

  I really doubt a major attack before the election, they know that if they hit us  hard before the election, folks will likely vote for an administration that would kick terrorist butt..they sure don't want to cause that !
   After election, they are likely to hit us if possible..no matter who gets in ! What we have to be concerned with after that is ..Do we have an Admin that would rather FIGHT terrorism..or one that would rather "cut and run"..  It's all up to US guys...

I am no way a supporter of Obomma or Hillery but do you think they would run from an attack like 9-11. This country would be in an uproar over such thing again and I would bet regardless of who the president might be at the time would make those terrorists wish they were never born. At least I would really hope so. After 9-11 we went half way around the word to destroy the people that brought harm to our people. I as an American could not see us just laying down and letting them do as they wish to us. Dale

[ironglow]

   TM7;
   I am pleased to see that you are reading the Bible..and you MUST believe it, since you are using it to bolster your debate ! For further info on the true
  identity of Jesus Christ, please turn to the following passages (among dozens)..1 John 5:7,8 ..John chapter 1, esp vs. 1-18  and John 14:9 .

    Youthpastor;
               " All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." (2Tim 3:16)

                " Preach the word, be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine." (2 Tim 4:2)

                                  ...Guess you can see your duty with TM7...

[ironglow]

   Meanwhile;
      Fun, games and parties...
     
    Celebrations all over the Gaza Strip..savoring the murder of the seminary student in the library in Jerusalem !

       

     Those of us who do not fall for the Muslim version of events..hook, line and sinker..need not add anything;

  their actions and reactions...speak for themselves !

[deltecs]

BTW,,,do you know who the only twice awarded congressional medal of honor soldier was? 

If I'm not mistaken, it was George Armstrong Custer's younger brother.  No, I did not look it up.

[billy_56081]

WOW! Its says so on a sight on the Internet, It must be true! Weather you are blinded by your neo Nazi brainwashing or are just being facetious , you need to get a grip on reality, the Moslems not the Isrealies are the bad guys. DUH!

[deltecs]

WOW! Its says so on a sight on the Internet, It must be true! Weather you are blinded by your neo Nazi brainwashing or are just being facetious , you need to get a grip on reality, the Moslems not the Isrealies are the bad guys. DUH!

.
Its a BBC report Billy, with real experts and gov officials and real tapes from recent events. It was aired in Britain.  It might be worth a watch,,,,,give it a try...it will be alright. Wasn't on the internet,,,,it was on tel-a-version so you might like it.

Deltecs....nope, I don't think it was Custer's brother.  In fact, I don't know even if that medal existed then....but no, t'was somebody else I think.

...TM7 

I knew the Congressional Medal of Honor was instituted during the Civil War.  Look at this link and you will find that Thomas Custer, G. A. Custers brother did in fact receive the medal twice.  On the same web page is another medal of honor winner awarded twice, John Cooper, so there are at least 2 servicemen who have received the medal twice.   I just looked it up after reading your post.    http://www.history.army.mil/html/moh/civwaral.html 

[SHOOTALL]

T.W.Custer
J.Cooper
P.Mullen
all 2 time winners , started in 1862 but made permanent in 1863

[youthpastorjon]

 

    Youthpastor;
               " All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." (2Tim 3:16)

                " Preach the word, be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine." (2 Tim 4:2)

                                  ...Guess you can see your duty with TM7...

?huh?

[Dee]

"Youthpastor...And that's what I believe too.  And Jesus, the Son of Man, taught that. But I understand he never evangelized"

Now are you telling us that Jesus is the son of man? I feel for your eternal soul. TM7 your Nazi trainers have really confused you. I'll pray for you.

But I understand he (Jesus) never evangelized.

That is the most obscenely WRONG statement I have heard in a long time about Christ. He was killed because of His evangelism regarding the NEW COVENANT coming.

[powderman]

WOW. tm7 has a Bible, whodathunkit???Certainly not me.  I reckon the phillistines were the good guys, that about how ya see it??? POWDERMAN. 

[Dee]

"Youthpastor...And that's what I believe too.  And Jesus, the Son of Man, taught that. But I understand he never evangelized"

Now are you telling us that Jesus is the son of man? I feel for your eternal soul. TM7 your Nazi trainers have really confused you. I'll pray for you.

But I understand he (Jesus) never evangelized.

That is the most obscenely WRONG statement I have heard in a long time about Christ. He was killed because of His evangelism regarding the NEW COVENANT coming.

.
OKay...I was inquiring....but he didn't evangelize in the modern sense.....people instead came to him on their own for the word.  I see a difference and I don't think it is obscene. And I don't think he was killed for any Covenant Theory, new or old, he was killed because he was anti-Pharisee and not New Covenant Theory embraced by todays post reformation evangelical movement.  Actually, Jesus is Israel.

....TM7

WRONG AGAIN, TM7. He did go from town to town, and preach a NEW GOSPEL. In Matthew he coined the phase; Behold the kingdom of Heaven is at hand. He offered a NEW TESTEMENT OF SALVATION, and when reading in the temple to the Sadducees, and the Pharisees, he STOPPED reading where the OLD TESTEMENT prophesied HIS COMING. Which in effect ANNOUNCED that the prophecy had been fulfilled. He had arrived.
He was KILLED for the NEW MESSAGE OF SALVATION. He told them that HE was the NEW WAY to God, and THAT is why he was killed. He made the authority of the hi-Archy of the Sanhedrin Council NULL AND VOID. They were no longer needed, as HE gave every man a direct line to God Himself thru Him (Christ).
What you believe and what the Bible actually says are two different things entirely, concerning the matter. That you do not understand the reason He SACRIFICED HIMSELF WILLINGLY to be killed is obvious, and that HE "IS THE NEW COVENANT" is equally obvious. His blood is the only way to God. He didn't have His own TV show, but not only did He Evangelize, He was "THE EVANGALIST". His Evangelism was PERFECTION PERSONIFIED.
New Covenant "THEROY"? What a sad synopsis. This New Covenant Dispensation is "hardly a theory" and is blasphemous to the Blood Shed on the Cross for Everyone whom asks THRU CHRIST and THAT BLOOD for forgiveness of their sins. Even yours. To minimalize His SACRIFICE as a theory will have dire consequences in the end. You may not believe it now, but you will in the end. I will pray for you to be enlightened to this fact.

[30-30man]

The ones that don't hate Christians are the ones that don't follow the Koran.  It teaches murder to those that won't convert.  That is enough for me to wish they lived elsewhere.  You can only turn the cheek so long. ....You guys are getting too deep.

[powderman]

tm7. Even reading the Bible you can't seem to grasp the truth. Sad. POWDERMAN. 

[Dee]

The New Covenant Theory {NCT}  as per post Reformation is arguable and catching on mid-1800's. But is mostly accepted by the new Christian zionists as yourself. And I do not mean that in a disparaging way. You happen to to follow that interpretation. Christian schools of doctrine which consider other teachings to counterbalance these doctrines, or which interpret them in terms of distinct eschatological theories, are less conducive to Christian Zionism. Among the many texts which address this subject in counterbalance are the words of Jesus as for example in Matthew, "the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation producing the fruits of it", and the writer of Hebrews's discussion (echoed in 1 Peter) of the Christian church as fulfilling the role previously fulfilled by the faithful Jews and the Temple cult, and the doctrine of Paul, expressed in Galatians, that "in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek".
   Both pro-Zionist and anti-Zionist schools of Christian thought may be influenced and motivated by the description found in Revelation, in the message to the Church at Philadelphia: "Behold, I give of the synagogue of Satan, of those who say they are Jews, and they are not, but lie. Behold, I will make them to come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you." This description is often offensive to Zionist Jews who otherwise find some common ground with Christian Zionism in their support of an ethnic Jewish state in the Holy Land. Nonetheless, it forms one of the foundational ideas underlying some support for Christian Zionism and plays a definitive role in its eschatological script of prospective events.
   I'm not so sure that 'going from town to town' is evangelizing in the modern sense and I believe people sought him out, but I'll think about it. In any case he came to shut down Pharaseism, not graft on to it.

...TM7

If these so called "other Christian" schools, and I AM including the Jew, "do not preach Christ and the Cross, they have no message". PERIOD-EXCLAMATION MARK!

[ironglow]

  Youthpastor;
  What I was referring to in my post to you was that TM7 has some "different" ideas as to just who Jesus Christ is. He does rferer to him as "the son of man"..
  that is part of it  .. but he seems to be avoiding the rest of Jesus's identity.." the  son of God and God the Son"
  The rest of us have been trying gently, to inform him..without result.
 
      He does seem to agree with you on some levels, so this gives you an opportunity to attempt to fulfill the "great commission". I only quoted those verses in
   in order reinforce the idea that you may "strike while the iron is hot".

[bluebayou]

The ones that don't hate Christians are the ones that don't follow the Koran.  It teaches murder to those that won't convert.  That is enough for me to wish they lived elsewhere.  You can only turn the cheek so long. ....You guys are getting too deep.

Sorry if I take your remarks out of context, but here goes:

Followers of every religion pick and choose.  There are fundamentalist Muslims, fundamentalist Christians, etc.  There are also people who are "backsliders" or "non practicing" or just uneducated.  I would hazard to say that most people in church on Sunday don't know squat about the bible, either the Southern Baptist one that my inlaws go to, or the Methodist one that we go to, or my original Catholic church.

How many are just ignorant?  They mean well, they go every Sunday and sing.........but they never dig very deep.  The fundamental Muslim religion is as you all say..........intolerant, preaching death to the non-Muslims, etc.  

But, what about Paul of Tarsus?  Here is a guy, uhm, lets see:

What about:  But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence 1 Timothy 2:12  
How many female teachers are there? ( I know that this is probably "rabbi")

What about: Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters Ephesians 6:5.  So, you support slavery?

What about:  Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities 1 Timothy 5:23  

So you have no pictures or idols or stained glass windows in your churches because of the 2nd Commandment?  

"Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth"

Do you have pictures of yourself anywhere?  Of your wife?  Your avatars on this site?  Have you had an MRI or CAT scan that saved your life?


I am guessing that due to the conservative nature of this site, that most of you are fundamentalist in nature.  You will undoubtedly reject any idea of "middle of the road" worship, but not all Muslims are extremists.  Not all Christians are extremists either.  

I am all for punishing the wicked.  I believe that some people are Evil with a capital "E", I have met some.  I believe that might does NOT make right.  I believe that being the greatest nation in history means that we have an obligation to do BETTER than the other people.  It means that we should  let the Red Cross and Amnesty International into our prisons because we have nothing to hide.  Because we aren't torturing people, because we should be feeding and clothing them.  

I also believe that we are a nation of fearful people.  So we are going to condemn all Muslims because of heads being chopped off and daycares being blownn up?  Now who has their head in the sand as someone accused me of?  Been to El Salvador?  Been to Laos?  Vietnam?  Americans have had their hands in some ugly places too.  

Those Saudi, extremist, al Quaeda Muslims got lucky SEVEN years ago.  You are running in fear of 20 guys who have been dead for 7 SEVEN years.  Where are the shipping containers with nukes?  How about the anthrax?  Dirty bombs?  Do you honestly think that the DHS has been protecting you from secret attacks?  TM7 makes a little sense on this topic.

Sure, al Quaeda, kill them.  Taliban....kill them.  Iraqi Sunnis....kill them.  Then where?  Who is next?  You going to round up all Muslims?

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 22:38 This is the first and great commandment. 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Matthew 22:37-22:40

[ironglow]

  TM   I hear of all your excuses for the terrorists..they may have been this, they may have been that..yes and chances are , they had no connections to earlier conflicts.
    That still doesn't explain away the reason why a batch of those crazies murdered 3,000 of our fellow Americans one quiet September morning. Are you implying  that each of those 3,000 had committed some kind of terrorist action on Muslims ? What had babies in day-care centers done ? ...Or teenagers & families in pizza parlors ?

    It just won't wash with thinking people, TM...

          Their murderous actions around the world, speak so loudly...that I can't hear a word said in their defense !

[ironglow]

Don't know what you're driving at TM..I checked with Wikipedia, Answers.com and Encyclopedia Britannica ..all said simply that a yeshiva was a Jewish school that carries heavy study of the Torah often along with secular stuidies..dictionary.com says basically the same thing.
  Yeshiva University of NY is a highly rated school (52n in US)..even MBI yeshiva U. in Hampton Roads ( a Messianic school) is a respected institute.

    Even the word  madrasa  doesn't evoke much negative..but when one checks up on  wahabist madrasa  things get a bit murky..

[woodchukhntr]

TM7,

I detect a strong anti Semitic twist to your last post.  Why would ''seminary" be a soft sell for "yeshiva"?  How many anti-rabbinical students do you know, anyway?  And even if they spit on Christians that doesn't seem to deserve the death sentence in my book, does it in yours?

[powderman]

WOODCHUCKR. He hates Jews, if you've read any of his posts you can see that. He always makes excuses for the Godless ones and even denies their murderous acts as not really clear enough. He wants more investigation on the events of 9-11-01 when it's really simple. A group of Godless, subhuman, SOBS, screaming allah akhbar as they murdered 3,000 innocent civilians, and sent themselves back to hell. Not hard to figure out, at least for me. I reckon tm figgers Bush did it. POWDERMAN. 

[woodchukhntr]

Powderman,

Thanks, I get it now.


TM7,

Repeat after me: "And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." (Genesis 12:3)

[ironglow]

   I did consult Wikipedia, but we all know that Wikipedia is contributor driven, so we can only take it's definitions with a skeptical eye. That is why I went on with
  answers.com and Encyclopedia Britannica for a well rounded reply.
  I found that "Yeshiva" was not once spoken in a negative light, while "madrasa" fared fairly well...until it was typed "wahabist madrasa"..then the ugly stuff started.

        Take it or leave it !

[youthpastorjon]

  Youthpastor;
  What I was referring to in my post to you was that TM7 has some "different" ideas as to just who Jesus Christ is. He does rferer to him as "the son of man"..
  that is part of it  .. but he seems to be avoiding the rest of Jesus's identity.." the  son of God and God the Son"
  The rest of us have been trying gently, to inform him..without result.
 
      He does seem to agree with you on some levels, so this gives you an opportunity to attempt to fulfill the "great commission". I only quoted those verses in
   in order reinforce the idea that you may "strike while the iron is hot".

This is where you and I differ my friend.  You method of delivering truth is much different from mine.  Whether you realize it or not, your method of delivery is quite offensive.  There is a major difference with declaring the truth of Jesus and declaring somebody is completely incorrect.  My job as a believer is to present the Word and allow the Holy Spirit to work.  Me and my arguments don't change lives, God does.  At times it is ok to allow God to work.  That means we present the message and allow God to work.  I have found that I am much more effective when I allow people to know that I care about them than when I just dismiss their ideas and claim they are ignorant.  If you are willing to preach you must also be willing to listen.  I am not saying you must agree.  I am saying you must at least show people that you will treat them with some degree of respect.

Maybe you are a well meaning Christian but your method of personal attacks is offensive.  As far as striking while the iron is hot, TM7 knows where to find me.  We can talk if he wants to talk.  I shared the truth (Scripture) and trust that God will not allow it to return void.

[ironglow]

  OKaaay...

   But he has already spoken to you and me ..and still referred to Christ as only..the son of man.
   I in no way suggested rudeness, but since the subject has already been broached..any Christian would be remiss if they refused to carefully correct faulty information
  concerning our Lord and Savior!
   I do not badger anyone toward salvation without any kind of opening being presented. I grew past that 30 years ago, but I never have grown so cold that I would
  refuse to correct disinformation about my Savior being spread about on a public forum.
   If in a conversation such as we hold here, if someone said " Jesus is not the Son of God", or " Jesus was not "the only begotten Son of God"...
       Just how long do you suppose it would take Luke, John, Martin Luther, Billy Sunday, Billy Graham or Jerry Falwell..to set the record straight ?
  Do you suppose that they may pay heed to being ready "in season and out of season " to rebuke, exhort, and preach the word ...?

   Whenever someone broaches the subject of Jesus and his nature, I am very quick to politely bring "the word" to bear,
    ...and I don't even take a check from the church .

[DalesCarpentry]

Seems we have goten off topic. Dale

[ironglow]

  Guess I did, Dale..but I'm done now..so we can go forth with the covering or uncovering of terrorists...depending upon our view...LOL

[Dee]

ironglow, in Matthew Chapter 8 verse 20, Christ refers to HIMSELF as the Son of Man, and He is referred to as such in about 20 or so other verses. I doubt if TM7 even realizes this. His belief system is one of conspiracy and that is a known fact. That TM7 is anti Christian, and anti-Jew is equally obvious. Consider the source.
What disturbs me, is folks such as youthpastorjon, whom by his forum name indicates that he might in fact BE a youth pastor, seems to not recognize the danger in defending Islamic so called moderates. For them to be Islamic they MUST believe the ENTIRE Koran, and although they do not PARTICIPATE in the carnage of the INFIDEL, they condone it.
youthpastorjon SHOULD be standing on top of his pulpit if "he has one" PROCLAIMING THEM AS AN EXTREMELY DANGEROUS CULT!
AND! That every single one of them are Hell bound on a bobsled.
Christ preached against the occult, and false gods. Our youth seems to preach a go along to get along message. No wonder we are in such moral decline. Political Correctness is not only destroying our culture, but our Christian values, and DUTIES.

[ironglow]

  Dee;
     It appears that the mealy-mouthed .." go along, to get along" philosophy has taken hold in many local assemblies ! I in no way advocate going out to search for trouble,
  but if "trouble" comes waltzing up..contending that Jesus is NOT JUST WHO HE SAID HE IS..I won't run and hide from such a "" trouble" maker either.
        There is one advertisement that I hear on TV that tries to get people to attend any of their local "branch"  churches...
        That advertisement claims that their chain of churches have  something like " Open doors, open minds and open hearts". I would go along with open doors and
   open hearts...but the "open minds"...I would have to investigate.
     If someone approaches a preacher and asks whether Christ is God..or if the blood really does wash away sin..I surely wouldn't expect the preacher to reply.. " Well, whatever !"
   
  I believe that none of the preachers in my last post here, would have such a cavalier attitude about the faith !

   I think that such a weak willed position may well be just what has emboldened Muslims just this week for instance, to start demanding that we allow special holidays on
   our calendar for their many holidays..
 
     What's next ..5 paid breaks daily, so they can hop onto their rug..or maybe Sharia law in many neighborhoods ?

[ironglow]

 TM;


          Haven't heard you refer to Him as the "Son of God" yet ! He also referred to himself as the son of God..indeed as God Himself (1 John 5:7,8   and John 17:11).
    So that sets the context between yourself, myself and Dee.

   Ariel Sharon .."the butcher of Beirut" ?  I have never seen any connection between the death of 273 Marines while asleep in barracks in Beirut . As I recall, that was a
    bunch of Muslim nutcases who did that !