Whaddya think guys? Time to rally 'round @#%# bag McCain?

[NONYA]

Look at the REALISTIC alternative,Billary or Osama,I dont care what Mc could have,should have or will do it couldnt possibly be anywhere near as bad as those thugs,vote Mc or bend over and take it in the %$#.

[SHOOTALL]

I've been voting for over 30 years and its always been for the lesser of 2 evils !
So what's new ?

[plumberroy]

Not voting is not an option for me!!! From Concord to to the men putting their life on the line today in the middle east today, Men and Women  have bled and died for ME ( yeah I take it personally) to have the freedom that I have.  With Freedom comes responsibility! Voting is  a responsibility If that many people have voluntarily put their life in danger for me to have that right I am Damn sure not going to disrespect their sacrifice by not voting or throw my vote  away because  I want to throw a hissy fit.If you don't vote you might as well  stop by the grave yard and Pi$$ on the graves of a few soldiers  ... it ain't anymore disrespectful!!
I do not like the choices we have any better than than anyone else But I owe it to every soldier that has took up arms during war times or piece time to vote for the person who is the best available to lead this country  I WILL NOT disrespect their  sacrifice by sitting on my A$$ when the time comes to vote!!
Every breath I have ever taken as a free man Was paid for in the blood of An American Solidier
I will All ways Honor that sacrifice
Roy
P.S. If you are a vet  you have the right to set it out  you have paid for the right to set it out  If not honor a Vet and go vote to the best of you abilty

[Chilachuck]

Shootall, seems to me that you are pretty much right about the politicians all being a choice between the lesser of two evils.

And the lessor evil is equal or worse than the greater evil in the previous election.

Or maybe I'm just getting better at seeing garbage on the ballot?

[Questor]

I think a lot like Kfarm on this one. It's the worst set of candidates I've ever seen for any office. My belief is that if there was ever an election not to vote in, this would be it.

[deltecs]

We have to face facts.  The facts are that either McCain, Obama, or Clinton as the most viable candidates will be the next president.  All of them have issues that I do not agree with.  All of them are leaders of the party of their choice.  Those parties have political ideologies that differ as wide as the grand canyon.  If your personal convictions are more aligned with conservatives, reward for the efforts of your labor, less big government, pro firearms, and less taxes, then you logically must vote McCain.  If your alignment is more cosistent with social giveaways, con firearms, more taxes, bigger and more intrusive government, and socialism, you should vote Obama or Clinton.  The American voters in primary caucus have chosen these candidates to be the leaders of the individual political parties.  If any other candidate or voter out there is not happy with the results, you have and we have only ourselves to blame for our lack of duty as citizens, by not keeping a closer eye on government and its officials.  My personal convictions tend toward conservatives, so am going with McCain as I think the alternative is too abhorent to consider using logic. 

[NONYA]

Too bad logic is at an all time low in the US.

[Questor]

Nonya:

We have plenty of logic in the US. At least in the sense of internally consistent arguments. The problem is that the facts being logically manipulated are often wrong.

We also have a great fondness for logical fallacies, as anyone listening to candidate debates can tell you.  Argumentum ad hitlerem gets quite a workout on talk radio.

[deltecs]

Nonya:

We have plenty of logic in the US. At least in the sense of internally consistent arguments. The problem is that the facts being logically manipulated are often wrong.

We also have a great fondness for logical fallacies, as anyone listening to candidate debates can tell you.  Argumentum ad hitlerem gets quite a workout on talk radio.

Just where is the logic error, when people emotionally attempt to persuade others to not vote or vote against the party candidate and party more inline with their convictions?

[NONYA]

I dont see very many logical decisions being made by the Washington law makers at all,I see people voting for completely illogical candidates for the president of the US that happens to be involve in a couple foreign wars right now,I dont see much logic any more at all.Common sense is not a logic that people use any more,they let their emotions,propaganda and greed fuel their decisions,then they bit%@ and cry about the long term effects of their actions.

[Doublebass73]

Sheeple make me sick,vote as you please but dont b&^%$ when you have a worthless liberal president,it will be the sheeple that buy into the third party BS that get another clinton elected.If you dont vote against the canidate that actually has a chance of beating the dems and is way better for our people you might as well be voting for the dems,if you cant understand that you probably are a liberal.

A sheeple is a person who follows what everyone else is doing such as voting for Juan McAmnesty just to keep a Democrat out of the oval office.
Me voting for whoever best represents me is certainly not following the herd.

As far as worthless liberal presidents go, we already have one in office now and will be getting another one in either McAmnesty, Obama or Clinton.
Anyone who sponsors an immigration "reform" bill with Ted Kennedy is most certainly a worthless liberal.

Why don't you try this concept - nominate a candidate who is an actual conservative and I'll vote for him or her. Until then you blaming me for the Republicans losing is no different than the lady who blamed McDonald's when she spilled coffee on herself and got burnt. If you can't understand that then you probably are a Republican sheeple.

[deltecs]

Sheeple make me sick,vote as you please but dont b&^%$ when you have a worthless liberal president,it will be the sheeple that buy into the third party BS that get another clinton elected.If you dont vote against the canidate that actually has a chance of beating the dems and is way better for our people you might as well be voting for the dems,if you cant understand that you probably are a liberal.

A sheeple is a person who follows what everyone else is doing such as voting for Juan McAmnesty just to keep a Democrat out of the oval office.
Me voting for whoever best represents me is certainly not following the herd.

As far as worthless liberal presidents go, we already have one in office now and will be getting another one in either McAmnesty, Obama or Clinton.
Anyone who sponsors an immigration "reform" bill with Ted Kennedy is most certainly a worthless liberal.

Why don't you try this concept - nominate a candidate who is an actual conservative and I'll vote for him or her. Until then you blaming me for the Republicans losing is no different than the lady who blamed McDonald's when she spilled coffee on herself and got burnt. If you can't understand that then you probably are a Republican sheeple.

You show me a conservative candidate who ran, that the rest of voters considered electable and I'll vote for him/her.  If they cannot win the primary caucus in the party of their choosing, they certainly are not going to win in a general election.   To vote along party lines for a candidate not nearly alike in my convictions, but more so than any other candidate is not voting as a sheeple.  It is voting for a candidate, that is the best choice available that is electable.  Just having more than 2 parties is not going to change that.

[Doublebass73]

Doublebass, in my view it is really simple why if you vote third party and a Democrat gets elected you are partly to blame. The vote you wasted on a third party candidate that has no chance of being elected is one that would have helped the Republican defeat the Democrat. Might as well just stay home. When its all over but the hand wringing the only ones that will care are the ones that didn't want a Democratic president. And next election it will be the same old thing, there still won't be a viable third party candidate.

Blame me all you want for your own party's lack of conservatism, it will get you nowhere.

I thought Republicans stood for personal responsibility instead of blaming other people for their problems?

What motivation is there for the Republican party to become more conservative when they have millions of people like you who will blindly vote for them regardless of the fact that their nominee is a flaming liberal?

We will always have a two party system unless more people choose to vote for a 3rd party. I refuse to vote for a candidate who does not represent my political philosophy. If you want me to vote Republican then nominate a conservative candidate. Nothing will ever change and this country will continue it's downward spiral if we stick by the "lesser of two evils" mentality.

[Doublebass73]

Sheeple make me sick,vote as you please but dont b&^%$ when you have a worthless liberal president,it will be the sheeple that buy into the third party BS that get another clinton elected.If you dont vote against the canidate that actually has a chance of beating the dems and is way better for our people you might as well be voting for the dems,if you cant understand that you probably are a liberal.

A sheeple is a person who follows what everyone else is doing such as voting for Juan McAmnesty just to keep a Democrat out of the oval office.
Me voting for whoever best represents me is certainly not following the herd.

As far as worthless liberal presidents go, we already have one in office now and will be getting another one in either McAmnesty, Obama or Clinton.
Anyone who sponsors an immigration "reform" bill with Ted Kennedy is most certainly a worthless liberal.

Why don't you try this concept - nominate a candidate who is an actual conservative and I'll vote for him or her. Until then you blaming me for the Republicans losing is no different than the lady who blamed McDonald's when she spilled coffee on herself and got burnt. If you can't understand that then you probably are a Republican sheeple.

You show me a conservative candidate who ran, that the rest of voters considerded electable and I'll vote for him/her.  If they cannot win the primary caucus in the party of their choosing, they certainly are not going to win in a general election.   To vote along party lines for a candidate not nearly alike in my convictions, but more so than any other candidate is not voting as a sheeple.  It is voting for a candidate, that is the best choice available that is electable.

That's fine if you feel that way, all I'm asking is don't blame me when your candidate loses the election because I chose to vote
Libertarian.

[NONYA]

---------DELETED By Matt-----------

[Doublebass73]

Double you are a waste of O2.

I love you, too.

Do you always resort to name calling when you don't have any good points to make?

[deltecs]

  That's fine if you feel that way, all I'm asking is don't blame me when your candidate loses the election because I chose to vote Libertarian. 

Which Libertarian candidate would that be?  Ron Paul is running as a Republican.

[ironglow]

 Logic..can be quite simple;

   Most strategy board games require it, chess, checkers etc. Sometimes we have to make moves we don't like, sometimes we even have to sacrifice a pawn,
  but the object is to be ahead of your opponent at the end.
             In this chess game called election, like it or not, 1 out of 3 people will become our next president ! For most of us, none of the three would have been our
  first choice.
    We can moan over having to sacrifice a King or rook,we can complain about the "breaks" of the game...but in the end are we gun owning, freedom loving,
  real Americans going to take a strategic victory..or quit the struggle, and leave the field to the enemy... (of most all we believe) ?

[NONYA]

Simply put if you enjoy the freedoms you have now vote for McCain,if you don't you ARE the problem IMO.

[magooch]

McCain might not be the perfect choice--let me rephrase that--McCain isn't the perfect choice, but my God, people...some of you had better pull your heads out where there is a little light.  The other two possibilities are this countries worst nightmares times 100.  Some of you might think we need to taste the poison to be sure it will kill you.  I learned a long time ago that that is the dumbest course--unless suicide is your goal.

I've been around for a lot of Presidential elections and not one of them has featured the perfect candidate, or anything that even approached perfection.  This country is split more, or less, fifty, fifty.  No matter who is elected, roughly half the country is going to hate him/her.  That's just the way it is and that isn't necessarily a bad thing.  The country is so diverse that there is no way to please everyone, or even a substantial majority, so if we are to have a relatively peaceful domestic situation, there at least has to be the possibility that the ones we might absolutely abhor can get elected.  Absent that, and you most certainly will have something like obtains in the Middle East.

If Mr.,or Mrs. Perfect were ever to come along, I'm afraid that the power that would be bestowed on such a person would be so overwhelming that corruption would be the least of our worries.  A benevolent dictator is in fact the best form of government for whatever fleeting moment that it takes that benevolence to turn sour.

So our election process is what it is.  I'll be voting for McCain and hoping like hell that he picks a running mate that is a whole lot more palitable.

[oldandslow]

DB73, I,m not going to call you names, but yes, I will blame you and and all the others that throw their vote away on a third party candidate. You are only hastening the the decline of our country by contributing to the election of a liberal democrat. I can see that you have a closed mind, much like a lot of  our democrat lawmakers have on gun control, and no amount of reasoning is going to change your mind so I will waste no more time on you.

[NONYA]

DELETED by Matt

[Doublebass73]

DB73, I,m not going to call you names, but yes, I will blame you and and all the others that throw their vote away on a third party candidate. You are only hastening the the decline of our country by contributing to the election of a liberal democrat. I can see that you have a closed mind, much like a lot of  our democrat lawmakers have on gun control, and no amount of reasoning is going to change your mind so I will waste no more time on you.

Oh I get it, I don't think like you so I'm closed minded. It's my fault the country is going down the tubes. So much for
Republicans believing in personal responsibility. And here I was thinking that only Democrats blame all of life's problems on somebody else.

Let me explain something to you. I don't want a Democrat in office either but I refuse to vote
for anyone who sponsors any bill with Ted Kennedy. Never mind the fact that it was a bill that rewarded illegal immigrants
for breaking the law.



I don't have to agree with a candidate on every issue to vote for them. I do have to agree with more than 50% of their views
to vote for them and McAmnesty and I don't see eye to eye. He is very liberal. So liberal the John Kerry seriously considered asking him to
be his running mate in '04.

[Doublebass73]

  That's fine if you feel that way, all I'm asking is don't blame me when your candidate loses the election because I chose to vote Libertarian. 

Which Libertarian candidate would that be?  Ron Paul is running as a Republican.

They haven't nominated their candidate yet. Had Ron Paul or even Fred Thompson been nominated I'd be voting Republican.
Since they decided to nominate a RINO instead I'll be voting Libertarian.

[NONYA]

DELETED by Matt

[Doublebass73]

Ill call you a name,coming from a hunter and a gun enthusiast Ill call you a TRAITOR.

I see you still have nothing to offer the discussion besides name calling.

Since that's the best you can do let's look at McCain's stances and voting record and see who the TRAITOR is.

McCain:

Sponsored Bill with Ted Kennedy which would give amnesty to all illegal aliens in the country.

Sponsored McCain-Feingold bill, a direct violation of the 1st Amendment

Part of the gang of 14 who tried to block conservative judges from being nominated.

Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines.

Says the government must do more to fight Global Warming. Sponsored bill with Joe Liebermann regarding this.

McCain has been funded by ultra left-wing George Soros of Moveon.org since 2001.

Considered switching parties in 2001.

Gun Owners of America Ratings For John McCain

2000
 C--
 
2002
 C--
 
2004
 F--
 
2006
 F--

Voted in favor of these:

Trigger Lock Requirement. On July 28, 2005, the Senate passed legislation requiring gun dealers to include the sale of a lock-up-your-safety device with every handgun sold. The amendment, offered by Sen. Herb Kohl (D-WI), passed by a vote of 70-30. The provision amended the gun makers' protection act (S. 397).

McCain Gun Show Ban. Senator John McCain (R-AZ) offered a gun show amendment (to S. 1805) on March 2, 2004. His language would outlaw the private sale of firearms at gun shows, unless the buyer agrees to submit to a background registration check. Also, it could effectively eliminate gun shows because every member of an organization sponsoring a gun show could be imprisoned if the organization fails to notify each and every "person who attends the special firearms event of the requirements [under the Brady Law]." Thus, if the person responsible for handing out "Brady pamphlets" took a break to go to the bathroom, everyone responsible for the event could be sent to prison. The McCain amendment passed the Senate by a vote of 53-47.

Young adult gun ban. This ban could severely punish parents who allow their kids to even touch a so-called semi-automatic "assault weapon." While the amendment allows for certain exemptions, there are some imponderable questions which NO senator could answer, but which a parent would have to answer in order to avoid incarceration. For example: What is a "semiautomatic assault weapon"? The definition, plus exemptions, takes up six pages of fine print in the U.S. Code. Second, a child can handle a banned semi-auto if he is in the "immediate and supervisory presence" of a parent or if he possess a written permission slip from the parent. But what happens when, during a target practice session, the parent walks to the car to retrieve his lunch and the juvenile is no longer in the parent's "immediate" presence and does not have a permission slip? A parent can receive jail time for this infraction.


As a gun owner and hunter I think it's pretty sad that someone would call me a TRAITOR for NOT voting for this piece of crap.

 

[NONYA]

Look at the ALTERNATIVE  --- DELETED BY MATT ----  ,have you read anything written here besides you own posts?VOte for some non candidate,one less vote the dems have to worry about,they love sheeple like you.You arnt achieving anything by voting for a non candidate but proving how ignorant you are to the real world,you might as well vote dem.So now hes a piece of crap,Id like to see you tell him that to his face,that old man would rock your liberal ass.

[NONYA]

This is modern politics's,you dont.

[Doublebass73]

Look at the ALTERNATIVE ---- DELETED BY MATT---  have you read anything written here besides you own posts?VOte for some non candidate,one less vote the dems have to worry about,they love sheeple like you.You arnt achieving anything by voting for a non candidate but proving how ignorant you are to the real world,you might as well vote dem.So now hes a piece of crap,Id like to see you tell him that to his face,that old man would rock your liberal ass.

Don't let the facts about McCain get in the way of your childish name calling.

Sheeple are people like you that have a defeatist attitude and settle for voting for a liberal piece of garbage. The alternative's to McCain are very liberal but then again as evidenced by the facts so is he.

It's pretty funny that you call me a liberal when I'm complaining that McCain is way too liberal for me. Maybe you should start paying attention instead of name calling and saying ridiculous thinks like he would rock my liberal ass. How old are you, 16 or 17 years old?

[NONYA]

********* DELETED BY MATT *******************