7-30 Waters vers 6.5 JDJ

[BubbaNColo]

I found a very nice stainless 6.5 JDJ SSK barrel with TSOB full length mount and 4x scope, stainless frame etc.
I have always wanted one of these but....I've been told that the 7-30 is no differant than the 6.5 JDJ, both shooting 120 grain bullets.
I've read where the 6.5 JDJ has killed everything in north America.

Now I've owned a 7-30 Bullberry Imp carbine and have shot three animals with it using 140 Ballistic Tip bullets. My results were disappointing and have given up on the 7-30. May have just selected the wrong bullet?

200 yards shot Antelope in spine clean kill no recovery of bullet
20 yards shot Antelope in the eye, doe stood up and then fell over, no exit wound, bullet should have blown the whole back half of her head off.
50 yards young Spike Elk Bull, shot into on side shoulder, it stood still until I moved and he could see me, elk turned and jump private fence! I inspected where he stood and found no blood. Believe bullet fragmented on shoulder or .....missed completely(I hope) thou why did he not run with rest of herd at sound of shot.

Now I've also been told that a 6.5 bullet are designed for slower velocities than most 7mm bullets.

[Elwood]

My kids have killed a couple of mulies with my 7X30 waters out of a carbine and it has been inpressive! I load 120 grain nbt and 120 grain tsx both are awesome.
Elwood

[Ken ONeill]

Most 6.5 bullets are indeed designed to expand at lower velocities than most 7mm bullets. Given a choice between the 2 cartridges, I would select the 6.5 JDJ every time. I have been very satisfied with mine during the last 16 or 17 years. Further, given a choice between a stock T/C barrel ( which is usually quite satisfactory ) and an SSK barrel, I would select the SSK barrel every time. I have 10 of them in service, to my complete satisfaction.

[sweetwyominghome]

While I like the 7mms, I always favor a 6.5mm JDJ over a 7-30. Both either will cleanly take any whitetailed or mule deer or antelope inside 250 yards.

Your shot on the elk was a mistake in judgment, no doubt about it. Very few bullets can get through the shoulder of an elk. I'd you'd have put the bullet through the ribcage and into the lungs, you'd be eating elk steaks right now instead of lamenting over the outcome. The lack of an exit on the antelope shot in the eye was not out of the ordinary; most bullets, given hard impact, would do much the same. Just remember that the skull is not the only bone to contend with on that shot. There's the spinal column -- along with some rather elastic hide to help keep a bullet from exiting.

The 140 grain Accubond may be a better bullet choice than the BT considering the diversity of game you pursue. It will expand down to around 1800 fps.

[onesonek]

BT's  aren't the type of bullet that will hold together under adverse shots. I see why you would have chosen a shoulder shot on the elk, in hopes to anchor with shoulder bone hit,  keeping him from the private land. In that case I might have opted for a neck shot. But all considered, I would have likely opted for a different bullet. I think the 150 gr NP would be my choice. They still open up with little resistance, yet by design would have stood a chance of penetrating bone better.
Now the 6.5JDJ may have some advantages over the 7-30, but really either used with the proper bullet for the game intended and used with their limitations, I see little difference as far as clean harvest goes.
I wouldn't give up on the 7-30, but if you want a little more "ooomph", you might consider rechamber to the 7-30 AI.

Dave

[jhalcott]

  I have both and consider them peas in the same pod! The 6.5 is an SSK and the 7-30 is factory. Both have taken deer cleanly for me using 120 grain bullets. I have played with heavier bullets in both but found no REAL improvement in performance.  I agree that you should have went for the Elk's neck on that shot. I have shot a deer in the fore head with a Nosler from the 7tc/u at less than 100 yards. The bullet did not exit ,but left a lump on the back of the deer's head!

[Hopalong7]

My son and I have had a running battle with this one for about 12 years now.  I'm the 6.5 guy and his first and favorite barrel is the Waters.  My barrel has a slight edge in accuracy, but of course, I'm comparing an SSK barrel to a factory barrel too....add in his much younger eyes and we're even again.  since we haven't convinced oneanother that one is better in 12 years, I guess the good news is you just can't go wrong with either.  To muddy the water even further, in recent years I've developed a lotta love for a S-14 in 30-30AI also.  Of course Son claims his Waters outdoes it too, but what do kids know. Right?  GOOD SHOOTIN' with either.   Walt

[BubbaNColo]

Great replys!  The comment about no exit on the Antelope could be right on, it could have hit spine and that would explain a lot.
I've also thought about what might have happened if I'd been using a 130 Sierra SSP or a 140 Partition bullet on that Spike Bull. Or simply never would have taken that shot on Elk, been better off with a 44 Mag pistol shooting 300 grain XTPs?

Let me tell the rest of that days story just for fun. This confused me even more and it took several years for me to come full circle on this.
3 hours after my fateful shot I spoted what to this day I think was same Bull laying down in high wind, NOW what do I do? Shoot again not knowing if it is same Bull and wound two Bulls, I thought no flipping way. I approached to within 35 yards ready to shoot if Bull got up and acted hurt. Bull jumped up with same shoulder facing me and showed no signs of blood, or limp etc and I let him run off. I examined his bed and found no blood. My son and me turned and started back to camp and saw a large cow elk running through the trees right towards us. I waited until she was about 30 yards out and told my son to step out from behind the tree and take her with his 308 18.5" Ruger Ultralight rifle using 165 Partition rounds loaded at about 2600fps. Elk spun and took off at shot directly away from us and stopped at about 80 yards facing away and quartering to left just enough, my son shot again and elk ran another 100 yards and finally fell over. Biggest Cow shot I've seen. Now I recovered both 165 Partitions fully expanded under offside hide.  [where am I going with this....hang in there] First thought was that 308 doesn't have enough HP to blast through a Elk then we need a more powerful weapon! Sounds just like my 7-30 conclusion. Now days I think that the 308 was enough she was just REAL big and the Partition did exactly what it is supposed to do, expand and fully penetrate. Both bullets were under hide on offside of chest. I now believe Elk wear real tough hides because both bullets didn't hit a bone on the way in and yet were fully expanded! Neither shots hit the heart, only clipped the lungs so she still had her engine running. So I'd have to say the Partition is soft enough to expand at lower velocitys as long as you were to use a 165 grain or lighter in a 30 caliber.  [Now the full circle thing] Maybe I should have been using a lighter bullet on that 7-30 IMP like the 130 or 120 but use a non-Balistic Tip type bullet or maybe a 140 grain Partition which wouldn't be considered a 7mm Mag bullet anyway, I think the 150 grain is more designed for 7mm mag speeds. Better to use something that can penetrate when taking on Elk and give up a little expansion.

[David D.]

Had a 7-30Waters and liked it. At the present I have two 6.5JDJ's and love them. Given a choice of one it would be the 6.5JDJ. Neither are power houses but both will get the job done. Shot placement and the proper bullets are a must.

[Slowpoke Slim]

I've shot and witnessed quite a few elk being shot over the last 20 years. Just when you think you have them figured out, you get one that really makes you scratch your head. I think the bull you shot in the shoulder was injured, but just shoulder damage. It's surprising to me how little they can react to such a hit. If the bullet just blew up on the shoulder without breaking the joint, you may not have been able to tell, and he probably would have bled very little from the entrance hole. If you get the same shot presented again, stay out of the shoulder, and double lung them. I don't really like neck shots myself, kill zone is too small, but a 50 yard shot is certainly doable.

As far as the 308 on the cow goes, well she was already running full out when you shot her, so she already had a full load of adrenaline and oxygenated blood pumping through her system. You pretty much have to hit them with a school bus at that point, if you want to see a "bang-flop" reaction. The 308 is more than adequate for elk, but it is NOT a school bus. You should have known you hit her well, when the first shot turned her and stopped her from running. I would have shot the second time also, just for insurance purposes. My father has used a 308 for over 30 years. It kills them, but very rarely does he get a "bang-flop" reaction, even when they are solidly hit.

My favorite elk poison is my 338 win mag. I have no problem breaking down both front shoulders if the shot is there with that caliber. I sure wouldn't try it with a 7-30 or 30-30, but double lung them, and you'll be tagging an elk.

Good luck and good hunting

[Steve P]

I have the 7-30 and have taken several deer with it.  I use 150 Ballistic Tips.  They are built a little stouter.  The 120s and 140s are more of a varmint bullet.  If going for elk, I would not use a Ballistic tip.  I would work up a load with the Partition or similar big game bullet. 

Nothing wrong with the 6.5 either.  Bullet selection is a little smaller, but plenty adequate for anything I would hunt.  I have a 6.5x55 and a 6.5 BR that I would not hesitate to hunt deer or elk with.   Once again, bullet selection.  6.5x55 shoots a partition at about 2600 and is plenty adequate for safe and sane taking of game.

Steve 

[pab1]

I love my 7-30 Waters barrel. It is very accurate with low recoil and low muzzle blast. I shot a big doe antelope at 95 yards with a 120 gr Nosler BT going 2400 fps last year. The bullet showed sign of expansion immediately upon entry, passing through shoulder meat and a rib, destroyed the lungs, broke another rib on the way out with a 1/2"+ exit hole. The doe dropped instantly and didn't move after hitting the ground. No other round could have done any better IMO.