Author Topic: .454 Casull-dilemma with H110 (Read 708 times)

Selmer · « **on:** July 09, 2003, 09:19:07 AM »

I'm trying to find some good loads for my 12" .454 Casull with H110, and I can't get anything to group! I'm shooting cast bullets from 250 gr. to 370 gr, and nothing is under 3" at 25 yds yet, and most groups are well over that. It's not the gun because it loves Unique and almost any weight bullet, but I wouldn't mind having a little more punch that Unique provides, although a 300 gr. bullet at 1400 fps is probably enough for deer, it groups about an inch at 100 yds, one big hole at 25 yds, so I know it's not the gun. If any of you have and tried and proven (safe) loads with H110 and the .454, please shoot me some info, if you don't want to post it, PM me or email me at encorefan@hotmail.com.
Thanks,
Selmer

PaulS · « **Reply #1 on:** July 09, 2003, 04:14:27 PM »

Selmer,
You didn't list the load you are using or loads tested so I am going to assume nothing.

The Hodgdon manual lists 31 to 33 grains of H110 with a large rifle MAGNUM primer with the 260 grain bullets. Speer goes a bit farther with 35 to 37 grains listing it as a compressed charge - NOTE: normally compressed charges do not alarm me but I have seen many warnings about compressed charges of this powder being squib loads or delayed detonation fire. One way you get a stuck bullet the other you get a stretched frame - neither is good.

I would work my way from 31 grains toward the 35 grain load in .5 grain increments while watching for a more accurate load. Once you find the load that produces the smallest group go back and work around it in .1 grain steps using THROWN charges. H110 has proven to me to like volume thrown charges better than weighed charges - don't ask me to explain it - I just have the experience to back it up.

PaulS

MS Hitman · « **Reply #2 on:** July 09, 2003, 05:19:06 PM »

Paul,

All I've ever primed my .454 cases with is small rifle primers.

Jeff Vicars · « **Reply #3 on:** July 09, 2003, 05:46:29 PM »

Try your Unique loads again. Your scope may have gave up the ghost. I don't know how much experience you have with loads of that magnitude, they could have un-nerved you. Have someone load your gun randomly with a empty case and a loaded round and you'll soon find out. No offense, just ideas.

PaulS · « **Reply #4 on:** July 09, 2003, 06:24:47 PM »

MS Hitman,
The Hodgdon manual calls for large rifle magnum primers and the Speer manual calls for small rifle primers (CCI 400). Now I wonder about something els I read in the Speer manual about two different cases.

from the Speer #13 manual:
"Cases used by Speer for this manual (#13) show heavier construction than the ones used in editions prior to #12. The thicker walls resulted in a reduction in charge weights from loads developed in older style cases."

Maybe the Hodgdon book has a misprint. Who knows?

PaulS

Selmer · « **Reply #5 on:** July 10, 2003, 04:11:08 AM »

Thanks for the ideas, Jeff, no offense taken, I asked for constructive criticism, right?

The scope should be fine, and I know it's fine cause it still holds great groups with the Unique loads, it's a Leupold 4x EER. Grouping at 100 yds. is not the problem with Unique loads, I think I'm holding a good grip and not flinching with the heavy loads and the random empty case loading thing is still something practiced by myself and my father on each other at each shooting session with all of our guns, for shotgun to .30-06, it keeps us disciplined. I have some experience shooting pistol with an XP-100 in 7mmBR, but it doesn't kick like this .454, but I know I'm not flinching and I can easily call my bad shots. I'm getting almost 1400 fps with the 300 gr. load with 14 gr. of Unique, it's easy shooting and clean burning, doesn't lead up to badly, so I'll probably stick with that for deer. I don't see any reason to punish myself with a load that will only expend it's extra energy on the other side of a deer it has already passed through, but it's nice to know the power is potentially there if I need it. Thanks for the advice and suggestions, keep em coming.

Selmer

myronman3 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 10, 2003, 04:55:49 AM »

graybeard gave me this recipe with h110 29.5 grns under a 300grn xtp. he said out of all the different ones he tried, this one seemed to be the best. and it works well for me.

T/C nimrod · « **Reply #7 on:** July 10, 2003, 08:39:45 AM »

Selmer - this may or may not apply. I fought with H110 in Project 41 at 100 yards. Finally changed primers, and my groups shrank from 3-2.5" to 1.75-2". A little seating depth adjustments and finally found a combo that would print consistent 5 shot/1" groups at 100 yards. Went from a magnum primer to a standard primer. This was using a 210 grn. Sierra JHC.

H110 did very well for me at 50 yards early on..... one ragged hole/5 shots. Seems the top end charges worked best. Good Luck!

Selmer · « **Reply #8 on:** July 10, 2003, 02:35:34 PM »

I think part of my problem is that I don't necessarily want all the horsepower that's available to me in the .454, and it sounds like H110 is the high sctaone fuel for this caliber, so I think I'm going to try some different powders that don't bite me quite as hard, I'm not a weenie, but I like my hands and I'm a saxophonist by trade, so they happen to be VERY important to me, especially all those sensitive little nerves. I have a load that I've worked up with Unique that runs my 300 gr. gas-checked bullet at 1400 fps, give or take, and it shoots ragged holes at 50 yds, -1" at 100 yds. It's real easy to shoot, very accurate, and I can sit down and shoot 50 rounds at a session and not have my hand sting a bit, so I'll probably stick with that, but the temptation to load up as hot as I can get it is so strong... It's like having a 454 big block Chevy in your pickup and staying on the highway within the speed limit, it's just more fun to go faster and through more stuff off-road, maybe that's just me. My philosophy when I get a new gun or a new round to work with is to find several different weights of bullets and powder combinations that all give me good accuracy, then use them for their specific application. I have a good plinking load with Unique and a 250 gr. plain-base, a decent hunting load with a 300 gr. and Unique, I'd like a full house load with the 300 gr. and a power load with a 360 or 370 gr. bullet for heavy work. Take it from there and give me the advice that you have from your personal experience. I'm afraid that lots of guys are going to tell me that the 14 gr. of Unique and a 300 gr. bullet at 1400 fps from a 12" barrel is the only thing I'll ever need, anywhere, but keep em coming!
Selmer

Duffy · « **Reply #9 on:** July 10, 2003, 05:17:17 PM »

I only have the 454 in a SRH so things are a bit different with the T/C. I started out with REM mag small rifle primers because that's what was recomended. After having about 10 out of 100 not fire in my gun I switched to WW. They didn't seem to have enough uummph so I ended up with Fed gold metal match primers. They seemed to be right in the middle as far as acuracy and Vel. The Remingtons gave the best vel and extreme spread but aparently my gun (with the stock spring) doesnt have enough force to fire them consistantly. Are you crimping your bullets in a crimp groove or seating them like a rifle? (ie X-amount away from the lands) Might just try seating them out to touch the lands if possable (lead bullets) and see what happens. If you do this remember that the charge may have to be increased to make up for the added space in the case. I've never tried it that way mainly because I use a profile crimp die to really hang on to those bullets to help get the fire going and it's a revlolver too. I still cant figure out how you are getting dead on @ 25 yards and 6" high at a 100 though.

Try sandbagging the gun down.

Ryan

JJFly · « **Reply #10 on:** July 13, 2003, 07:34:46 AM »

Gents,

A couple things I'd like to inject. H110 and W296 need a HEAVY crimp. I've got a 10" 454Casull Encore. If you use/find a bullet with two cannelures, I'd seat to the rear one, if throating allows just for the extra powder capacity. With all single cannelure bullets, 300gr MAG XTP my personal favorite, I seat to the forward edge of the cannelure and roll crimp in a seperate operation. I roll crimp it to the point the case rim is shiny. H110 will perform wonderfully like this. ALSO, it should be noted... Hodgdon doesn't recommend reduced loads with H110. I think they state reduce 5% instead of the usual 10% and work up. So, YES, H110 is for "MAXIMUM" velocity and energy and yes RECOIL too. Full house loads are really something in a 10" barrel, to the point of being violent.

Hope this helps.

Duffy · « **Reply #11 on:** July 13, 2003, 07:53:02 AM »

It took me awile to get back here but I was going to add just what JJFly said about the heavy crimps. I too use a single roll crimp and then follow with a profile crimp die.
The other thing I thought of was that you may give Hodgdons
LilGun powder a try. It is less sensitive to powder reductions and gives as good as vel as H110 if you steam them up. It should give you a wider range of vel with less pressure than the Unique.