"the all around caliber" ?

[Dave in WV]

It's my post and my opinion, don't try logic and reality on me.

It is a Fine and Pleasant Madness, isn't it? 

YUP !

[lgm270]

My personal vote goes to the 30-06.

We always talk about the "all around rifle" but rarely about  the "all around rifleman."  Buy one gun and use the money you would use to acquire a collection of many guns and learn to handload, buy components and learn how to shoot it.   

Become an "all around rifleman" and the issue of the specific caliber of your "all around rifle" is not as important as it otherwise might be.   

[MSP Ret]

Best all around caliber? 7mm
Best all around cartridge? 30-06
It's my post and my opinion, don't try logic and reality on me.

lets see,

Best all around caliber? 7MM
Best all around cartridge? 30-06

how about the 30-06 necked down to take the wonderful array of 7mm bullets and the better
ballistics, that would be...TA DA!!!...the wonderful .280 Remington!!!   (one of my 3 choices)

....<><....


I like your thinking buddy, and I agree. Also the .280 Remington = .284/7mm bullets

[Freezer]

    Now That's music to my ears!  280 will best the '06 with lighter bullets and the 270 with heavy bullets.  Talk about he best of both worlds.  There's nothing in the lower 48 it can't do

[deltecs]

Best all around caliber? 7mm
Best all around cartridge? 30-06
It's my post and my opinion, don't try logic and reality on me.

lets see,

Best all around caliber? 7MM
Best all around cartridge? 30-06

how about the 30-06 necked down to take the wonderful array of 7mm bullets and the better
ballistics, that would be...TA DA!!!...the wonderful .280 Remington!!!   (one of my 3 choices)

....<><....


I like your thinking buddy, and I agree. Also the .280 Remington = .284/7mm bullets

I don't disagree with you with the one exception of finding factory ammo as the post suggested.  The other nominee would be necking the '06 up to .338 for heavier game, it too is exceptional.  I personally think the .280 Rem is best overall caliber for continental hunting and the .338-06 best for most of Alaskan hunting for the reloader.   But for the man with one rifle, one caliber, for all NA big game, the choice is the '06 for factory loads, hands down.

[countryrebel]

30-06 hands down.Grandpa used it,old man uses it,I use it.There are lots of rounds that work great but the most versatile I think is the 30-06.

[AtlLaw]

30/06.  No doubt about it.  That said, who would want an all-around rifle!?     Get a rifle in any caliber mentioned, find a bullet you like, and if you feel the need to go a bit faster or slower, or use a heavier bullet, or one with a larger or smaller frontal diameter, pick another caliber/cartridge and another rifle get it and repeat the process!     But, never sell a weapon!

[wareagleguy]

6.5 X 55. Period.

[Cheesehead]

I vote for the 308 Winchester. A 180 grain bullet will work for the larger game. If that load is considered "not enough" , the other choices would also be inadequate.

Cheese

[slickest]

Well as what i have read it seems that the 30-06 would be the best all around cartridge and if i went to a magnum it seems the 300wm would be the route to go with.

The moose and elk are a ways out in the planning of any hunting trips. Really this rifle would mainly be used for whitetail and black bear. I just wanted to throw the all around caliber out their to see peoples opinions.

Im sure i will end up with two rifles. a .308 for the whitetails and bears and a .300wm for the moose and elk.

I just like to stir the pot a bit and get some opinions. hopefully one day i will take up hand-loading. right now i dont have the time or place. to busy with apprenticeship school and working on the road. I do appreciate the help guys.

[corbanzo]

I vote for the 308 Winchester. A 180 grain bullet will work for the larger game. If that load is considered "not enough" , the other choices would also be inadequate.

Cheese

A 180 grainer out of an -06 and out of a 300mag are a whole different story than out of a 308.

[sniperVLS]

I vote for the 308 Winchester. A 180 grain bullet will work for the larger game. If that load is considered "not enough" , the other choices would also be inadequate.

Cheese

A 180 grainer out of an -06 and out of a 300mag are a whole different story than out of a 308.

Umm you make it sound as if 180 grainer out of an -06 has a lot more energy than a .308?

If we are comparing factory ammo, 100 or 150 so ft lbs seperate the 2 out to whatever yardage you compare(the .300winmag is a different story). I hope some don't think that's a world of difference. Bullet selection and bullet placement win every time and I'll take a .308 out for the same things I'd take an .06 for any day of the week. Now you start loading the -06 with 220 grainers, things change but because 180 grains was mentioned, I'm replying 

[Freezer]

    Igm270, I really like what you said but I'd add one thing before the reloading equipment.  Get the best scope and binoculars you can afford.  Then start reloading.   

[james]

30-06.

[myronman3]

lots of funny stuff here. 

  somebody better fill in the scandinavian people that their puny 6.5 swedes arent up to taking moose.  if the 6.5 can do it, a 308 sure as hell can.
   

  308 for the whitetails and bears and a .300wm for the moose and elk

that would be silly.  get a 308 and something bigger, like a 338 or 35 something,  or even a 375 h&h.  to me there isnt a big enough gap in preformance to justify a 308 and a 300 wm.  if you are going to step up, step UP.

[bigjeepman]

   

  308 for the whitetails and bears and a .300wm for the moose and elk

that would be silly.  get a 308 and something bigger, like a 338 or 35 something,  or even a 375 h&h.  to me there isnt a big enough gap in preformance to justify a 308 and a 300 wm.  if you are going to step up, step UP.
[/quote]

I agree. Why not a 7mm-08 for whitetail and a .30 cal something for whatever other intended game you will hunt.

bjm

[beemanbeme]

Somebody is throwing organic fertilizer in the fan.  First off we could only have one gun to kill everything (dang, I hate these questions) but now the rules change.  We get two guns. One to hunt deer and black bear with. Which any right thinking, red-blooded American knows is a 7-08. And another one to kill elk and moose. Which, to make sure the job is done right, under any circumstances, would be a .300WM.  With a 200gr bullet, of course. Never mind the nostalgia about the 30-06, just have it bronzed and hang it over the mantle.
 Now then, problem solved. Put your books away.

[AtlLaw]

Never mind the nostalgia about the 30-06, just have it bronzed and hang it over the mantle.

Now wait just a yankee fertilizer slinging at a fan minute here!  Nostalgia is good!  Back in '06 ... 2006 that is, I realized I didn't have a 30/06 sportin' riflegun.  Several in that cartridge in military guise, but no deer banger.  Picked up a 700 Mountain rifle at the next gun show.  Bedded the action, MOA with every 150 or 165 gr. pointy thing I put through it, no problem...  It may be boring, but that's just because it's so dang reliable!

BTW, y'all know the forum spell check wants to capitalize "yankee!?"  Who ever heard of such?

[gatorman76]

Best all around caliber? 7mm
Best all around cartridge? 30-06
It's my post and my opinion, don't try logic and reality on me.

I'll second that.

[corbanzo]

I have seen the -06 do less than perfect on big moose and brown bears at range, I sure as hell wouldn't want to take a step down to the .308.  So when you are on the cusp when it comes to big game, there can be a pretty big difference. 

You know what the best all around are?

The .25-06, .270 winchester, .30-06, 8mm-06, .338-06, and .35 whelen.

(Are we noticing a theme?)

[sniperVLS]

I have seen the -06 do less than perfect on big moose and brown bears at range, I sure as hell wouldn't want to take a step down to the .308.  So when you are on the cusp when it comes to big game, there can be a pretty big difference. 

You know what the best all around are?

The .25-06, .270 winchester, .30-06, 8mm-06, .338-06, and .35 whelen.

(Are we noticing a theme?)

I've seen much larger calibers than the -06 do less than perfect on big moose and browns so we could bicker about that all day and night. All animals react differently. Again, I'd take the *little* .308 out for the same animals I would an -06. No one said I'd take it out for a brown bear, I surely didn't. I sure as hell wouldn't take an -06 either. Way 2 close in performance to make a difference from what I've witnessed. Like someone said, if you're going to make a jump up in power, go big.

I don't want someone who has a wimpy little .308 thinking they are doing themselves a favor by unloading it and getting an all powerful .30-06, they would probably be sorely disappointed.

[Cheesehead]

The original poster mentioned black bear, not brown bear. If I were hunting brown bear, I would start at 338 magnum of any kind and go up from there.
Most likely a 375 type magnum, taking the larger leap. My good friend has lived in BC for 30 years and has shot as many moose with a 284.
 He says they are easy to kill and usually takes their picture first, always less than 100 yards. I have never shot a moose or brown bear and probably never will so I am not going to worry about it.
 I have butchered 20 whitetail shot with a 308 180 grain and have seen penetration of 15-30 inches, always total penetration. Seems adequate, maybe not, I could be wrong.

Cheese

[deltecs]

I have seen the -06 do less than perfect on big moose and brown bears at range, I sure as hell wouldn't want to take a step down to the .308.  So when you are on the cusp when it comes to big game, there can be a pretty big difference. 

You know what the best all around are?

The .25-06, .270 winchester, .30-06, 8mm-06, .338-06, and .35 whelen.

(Are we noticing a theme?)

You forgor the .280 Rem.

[Cement Man]

I think the shadow that the 30.06 casts over the .308 is mighty small in a practical sense, particularly in the 180gr and under weights - which I would imagine is 98% of the usage in those two cartridges.  For midwestern whitetails I mostly use a .308 and out west for elk, I use an '06 - mainly because my .308's (excepting a Ruger 77 VT) are short barreled (handier in the treestands and thickets) and my '06's are sporters with longer barrels more suited to the west. Also I use lower powered scopes in the midwestern woods, more magnification out west.  Other than because of what rifles I am using, I don't believe the .308 gives up much to the '06 at all in the bullet weights I use. I use 150's on WT deer and 165's for bigger animals.  

To me, when I hear exaggerated differences between the two cartridges, I kind of think it's like saying that an 8" blade in a knife fight is better than a 7 and 7/8" blade - every time.  Truth is, there are a whole lot of other factors that will probably make more difference.

I know a lot of people sneer at what gunwriters say, but I do like John Barsness and I kind of like the way he sums up the .308:

"Sometimes they'll even say it isn't adequate.  What??!! With 180 grain bullets it matches the the long standard .30-06 velocity of 2,700 fps, give or take a few fps.  Load a 180 grain Nosler Partition (or Hornady INterlock, or Swift Sirocco, or whatever) to 2,700 and it will kill anything up to elk and kudu neatly out to at least 400 yards, if you can shoot halfway decently.  I know this because I have done it."

[corbanzo]

I have seen the -06 do less than perfect on big moose and brown bears at range, I sure as hell wouldn't want to take a step down to the .308.  So when you are on the cusp when it comes to big game, there can be a pretty big difference. 

You know what the best all around are?

The .25-06, .270 winchester, .30-06, 8mm-06, .338-06, and .35 whelen.

(Are we noticing a theme?)

You forgor the .280 Rem.

My apologies 



2700 is scootin for a .308, kind of like 2850 is scootin for an -06.  And I can't think of one reason why I would want to give up 150fps.  Bring your 308 and try and load it to my -06 levels, I'll blow up your gun for you.

I'd hunt moose and brown bear with a 243, as long as I was comfortable enough with the gun and game to guarantee me a spine shot every time.  OK, that is a bald face lie, I would never do that, but you get the point.  Yes, the .308 can do it, but I know that my -06 is gonna out do in velocity and energy the .308 whatever size the bullet. 

[Cement Man]

Corbanzo,
I can't think of a reason that YOU should give up 150 fps either.  And I won't spend much time pondering it.

I can think of several reasons why I don't care a whole lot about giving up 100 fps (closer to the average difference that I find). I suspect you wouldn't agree with them.

I love both cartridges.  There are some differences between them, some of which transcend the nominal velocity difference.  There is also much, much more common ground that they both cover very, very well for many common hunting purposes and with the overwhemingly more commonly used bullet weights.

As far as bringing you a .308 for you to blow up.............?  That would prove?  (You don't have to answer ... we already know.)

[sniperVLS]

I remember being young and solely looking at velocities(not saying Corbanzo is young), but those days are long gone. Yes it's a big part of the equation but with the bullets out today, it doesn't matter which you get out of the 2 IMO. Both have a plethora of ammo available and that's what matters to most. What model they are available in also comes into play.

Dead is dead. I've seen elk drop from a .308 like a truck hit it. I've seen an elk run 200 yards after an -06 removed its heart and lungs. It goes both ways, and that goes for the .270 and many other calibers that are VERY close in real world performance. I prefer heavy barreled rifles that I use to reach out and touch something, and .308 is offered in much more of those so it's a no brainer for me.

Out of curiosity....I'm not going back and sifting thru all these posts but did someone dare say that the .308 couldn't take down a black bear? If that was typed, Please point me in the direction so I can have a good laugh at the expense of whoever said it 

Changing the subject....I'm reminded of the guy at the range a couple weeks back who was watching me hit eggs at 200 yards. He asked what I was going to use the rifle for and said primarily coyote at distances of atleast 2 - 300 yards. This gentlemen, probably in his late 60's, said I had no business attempting that because it wouldn't sufficiently drop one. I looked at him stunned and before I could open my mouth, his friend interrupted us and they walked away. At first I thought maybe he meant I couldn't hit one at the range, but realized he was the one who approached me after watching me hit tiny targets at 200 with little effort.

Guess he never saw what a 168 grain A-max does to one at 350 yards 

[beemanbeme]

That probably wasn't his friend, it was probably his nurse and he'd missed his meds.
 However, you go in some of the forums and have the young bucks go on a feeding frenzy and they'll have you thinking you dast not go in the black bear woods without at least a .375.  And don't shoot a pig with anything under a .338 loaded with solids.

[JGREG]

300 wsm

[corbanzo]

Corbanzo,
I can't think of a reason that YOU should give up 150 fps either.  And I won't spend much time pondering it.

I can think of several reasons why I don't care a whole lot about giving up 100 fps (closer to the average difference that I find). I suspect you wouldn't agree with them.

I love both cartridges.  There are some differences between them, some of which transcend the nominal velocity difference.  There is also much, much more common ground that they both cover very, very well for many common hunting purposes and with the overwhemingly more commonly used bullet weights.

As far as bringing you a .308 for you to blow up.............?  That would prove?  (You don't have to answer ... we already know.)

That would prove that the -06 could handle more than the .308.  I didn't think I had to explain that one. 



And oh yes a 308 could down a black bear.  A .243 could down a black bear without much fuss.