"the all around caliber" ?

[Coyote Hunter]

2700 is scootin for a .308, kind of like 2850 is scootin for an -06.  And I can't think of one reason why I would want to give up 150fps.

2700fps is hardly “scootin” for a .308 Win unless you are talking 180g bullets – and even then you have a choice of reloads or factory ammo.  Same deal for the .30-06 at 2850fps except there is an additional factory load.

I keep my 165g hunting loads to about 2660fps in the .308 Win and 2900fps in the .30-06. Guess I could go faster but really don’t see the need.

Code: [Select]

Bullet    .308W   .30-06   .300WM   Source
===========================================
150g       3001    3056     3420    Nosler 6
150g       2919    2847     3301    Speer #14
150g       2800    3000     3300    Hornady 7th
150g       2937    3068     3289    Hodgdon 2007 Annual
150g       2996    3012     3299    Lyman 48th
150g       2840    2910     ----    Federal Factory
150g       2820    2910     3290    Remington Factory
150g       2825    2925     3290    Winchester Factory
150g       3025    ----     ----    Nosler Factory
150g       3000    3100     3275    Hornady Factory

165g       2910    3002     3290    Nosler 6
165g       2812    2803     3280    Speer #14
165g       2600    2900     3200    Hornady 7th
165g       2773    2938     3142    Hodgdon 2007 Annual
165g       2756    2959     3194    Lyman 48th
165g       2700    2830     3050    Federal Factory
165g       2700    2800     ----    Remington Factory
165g       2670    2800     ----    Winchester Factory
165g       2800    2800     ----    Nosler Factory
165g       2880    3015     3100    Hornady Factory

180g       2718    2872     3160    Nosler 6
180g       2613    2756     3059    Speer #14
180g       2500    2700     3000    Hornady 7th
180g       2683    2798     3042    Hodgdon 2007 Annual
180g       2578    2840     3084    Lyman 48th
180g       2740    2880     2960    Federal Factory
180g       2620    2725     2960    Remington Factory
180g       2620    2750     3000    Winchester Factory
180g       ----    ----     2950    Nosler Factory
180g       ----    2900     3100    Hornady Factory

190g       ----    ----     ----    Nosler 6
190g       ----    ----     ----    Speer #14
190g       2400    2700     2900    Hornady 7th
190g       2569    2692     2990    Hodgdon 2007 Annual
190g       2667    2724     2992    Lyman 48th
190g       ----    ----     ----    Federal Factory
190g       ----    ----     ----    Remington Factory
190g       ----    ----     ----    Winchester Factory
190g       ----    ----     ----    Nosler Factory   
190g       ----    ----     ----    Hornady Factory

200g       ----    2688     2972    Nosler 6
200g       2416    2554     2857    Speer #14
200g       ----    ----     ----    Hornady 7th
200g       2514    2577     2962    Hodgdon 2007 Annual
200g       2521    2659     2938    Lyman 48th
200g       ----    ----     2700    Federal Factory
200g       ----    ----     2825    Remington Factory
200g       ----    ----     ----    Winchester Factory
200g       ----    ----     2800    Nosler Factory
200g       ----    ----     ----    Hornady Factory

220g       ----    2602     2757    Nosler 6
220g       ----    ----     ----    Speer #14
220g       ----    2500     2700    Hornady 7th
220g       ----    2476     2810    Hodgdon 2007 Annual
220g       ----    2583     2772    Lyman 48th
220g       ----    2400     ----    Federal Factory
220g       ----    ----     ----    Remington Factory
220g       ----    ----     ----    Winchester Factory
220g       ----    ----     ----    Nosler Factory
220g       ----    ----     ----    Hornady Factory


[Cement Man]

That would prove that the -06 could handle more than the .308.  I didn't think I had to explain that one. 



And oh yes a 308 could down a black bear.  A .243 could down a black bear without much fuss.
[/quote]

We already know that we can get more fps out of an '06. I just don't think that for most hunting with bullets of 180 grains and under, that's as big a deal as it is so often made out to be. If the speed differential comes at a cost in accuracy, it's not a good tradeoff. To blow up a rifle to prove it would be stupid.
The .243 comparison isn't even worth responding to.
FWIW I hold the 30.06 in just as high regard as I do the .308 - which is to say, very high.  I would nominate it to be "the all around cartridge" because of it's ability to handle heavier bullets better, making it more versatile.  I am just saying (again) that the .308 is so close as to not make a difference for most hunting, and in some cases has an edge in the accuracy department.

[deltecs]

Well, as to the question of the topic then, it seems that most would find the '06 to be the more versatile round for the all around caliber for NA hunting.  The other calibers, though will do the job, but not as versatile using factory bullets.  So, any discussion between different calibers merits, don't mean a whole lot when the '06 meets and exceeds the conditions of the questions better than any other round.  We all have our favorites and mine is not the '06, but it is the one caliber rifle for the one rifle man.

[finnlight]

A 180 grainer out of an -06 and out of a 300mag are a whole different story than out of a 308.

Not really.  The diff between the .308 and the '06 is only 150fps with 180gr bullets. You think the animal will notice the diff between 2600 fps and 2750fps?  I think not.  Now the .300WM is a faster for sure.

[deltecs]

A 180 grainer out of an -06 and out of a 300mag are a whole different story than out of a 308.

Not really.  The diff between the .308 and the '06 is only 150fps with 180gr bullets. You think the animal will notice the diff between 2600 fps and 2750fps?  I think not.  Now the .300WM is a faster for sure.

That is not really the case either, comparing the '06 to the .300 Win.  There is similar difference between it and '06, as the '06 is to the .308.  One does not take into effect the higher pressure standards that the .300 Win is loaded to.  Put both calibers at the same pressure limits and the differences are reduced substantially.  The powder capacities between the 3 rounds vary from 13 gr to 22 gr.  However with the short necks of the .300 Win and .308 Win, actual powder capacity is further reduced in the .300 and the .308, while the '06 doesn't lose in the powder column.

[jro45]

My 338 RUM would be my choise. It Can shoot the 180 caliber bullet for deer and The 250 for bears And moose.

[corbanzo]

My 338 RUM would be my choise. It Can shoot the 180 caliber bullet for deer and The 250 for bears And moose.

A man after my own heart.   

That will be a rifle I should aquire later this year.  The 180-225 grn range is actually prefered for moose, because they still present long range shots, and a 180 grainer is plenty, especially at rum levels.  (Though I'm not saying a 250 grainer would do any worse.  Brown bears is where I might step up the grains, but I don't think he would really be able to tell much difference.  I was looking at the 338RUM, and I'm thinking the 210grn barnes tipped TSXBT about the right bullet for pretty much everything. 

[WyoStillhunter]

My head says "30-06" and I have used one extensively for about 45 years.

But my heart belongs to "the Colonel" ... .35 Whelen.

[.308 Win.]

  .308 with strong bullets, smashing through the pump station will take those animals down just as well as the big magnum rounds. Nothing else really to say.  The .308 just works.   

[Cheesehead]

I would agree the 338 RUM would be an excellent "all around Alaska caliber" since Brown bear could be on the menu. Also longer ranges would not be a problem for the RUM. I would load it with 250 grain Partitions and hunt everything with it. I hunt whitetails in Wisconsin and for me the 308 is the perfect fit.

Cheese

[Freezer]

    Let's see here... "The all around caliber".  The 06 sits right in the middle of 308 and 300 Win mag.  hmmmm rocket science
    7x57...280 Rem...7 Rem Mag hummm
    The 06 will shoot flatter, straighter and further than most hunters can or for that matter practice for.  It handles heavy bullets better than 308 and won't thump you like a 300mag.  The 300 win mag will make allot of people flinch after a few shots thus negating any long range pratice "most" get by instilling a flinch.  Flinch in the field and you'll miss or wound.
    Though all three are great cartridges I personally wouldn't want a 308 for Elk, Moose or Brown bear and consider the '06 class of cartridges the minimum standard.  I use a 308 for deer, black bear and pig but 308 it has it's limits IMHO.

[Cement Man]

If you guys were to choose one rifle/caliber to hunt black bear, Whitetail deer, Moose,  and elk what would it be?

Brown bear were never part of the original post.  I believe that hunting them demands a whole different set of requirements than the four species that were mentioned.  At least for me it does.  Brown bears, for me anyway, are .338 and upwards animals.

[Coyote Hunter]

If you guys were to choose one rifle/caliber to hunt black bear, Whitetail deer, Moose,  and elk what would it be?

It depends on how often moose were going to be on the menu.  For elk and less I chose the 7mm Rem Mag in 1982 and have no regrets.  Got a .300 WM several years ago just for fun, but it has not been any more effective.  If moose were added I'd probably reach for the .300.

[Cement Man]

I was quoting the original poster's (Slickest) question to indicate that brownies were not on the original agenda but I have never figured out how to do that correctly.  (not very computer literate)

How is that done, so it identifies the poster that you are quoting?

[deltecs]

I was quoting the original poster's (Slickest) question to indicate that brownies were not on the original agenda but I have never figured out how to do that correctly.  (not very computer literate)

How is that done, so it identifies the poster that you are quoting?

Cm, when you read the posts in the upper right corner are some links labels, like modify, quote, etc.  To respond to anyones post, just select the quote tab, another box will come up for your post with the original post and you can respond below the last [/quote].  When you submit your response, it will look like similar posts with quotes inserted.  There is also help on GBO that tells you how to do stuff with your posts.  Hope that helps.

[Cement Man]

I was quoting the original poster's (Slickest) question to indicate that brownies were not on the original agenda but I have never figured out how to do that correctly.  (not very computer literate)

How is that done, so it identifies the poster that you are quoting?

Cm, when you read the posts in the upper right corner are some links labels, like modify, quote, etc.  To respond to anyones post, just select the quote tab, another box will come up for your post with the original post and you can respond below the last

.  When you submit your response, it will look like similar posts with quotes inserted.  There is also help on GBO that tells you how to do stuff with your posts.  Hope that helps.


If this shows up alright, I think I got it.  Thanks, sir.
[/quote]

[Cement Man]

Well, I'm getting closer anyway.. 

[deltecs]

You almost have it.  Just got to remember to put the text cursor after the brackets, forward slash, quote, back bracket.  You'll get it.  There is also a test page on GBO that you can use to check yourself out on before you post.  It is at the bottom of the forums headings near the bottom of the page.  Have fun.

[High Brass]

I could do everything I wanted to do with a 243 Win and a 30-06, fortunately I have both!

I could probably also do anything I wanted to do with my 223 Rem and my 280 Rem.   Given proper bullet selection and even more importantly, bullet placement, I figure I could handle what I personally would want to hunt just fine. 

[Thebear_78]

I would say that the best "All around" is one of the 300 mags, either long or short.  It has the best all around bullet weights 110-240gr that will do pretty much anything you would want to do with a rifle on this continent.   I currently have a 300 WSM and while I agree it isn't all that much more powerful than the 30/06 it will best it by a 150fps and I think that gives it an edge.   Realisticly the 30/06 will do it all but the WSM fits in a nice short action and gives me a little bit flatter trajectory.     


Versatility loads
130gr Barnes TSX @ 3600fps   Deer/Lopes/yotes
180gr Nosler Partition @ 3000fps        DO all load
220gr Nosler partition @ 2700fps      Big and toothy

[victorcharlie]

30.06......because of the price and availability of ammo........If you can't get it for an 06, they just don't make it..........

The commonality of the cartridge is it's biggest attribute.......you can shoot it cheap....

Not knocking any other caliber, but I haven't seen a bottom end or entry level ammo for 338 rum, 300 wsm etc..etc.....seems only the premium stuff at twice the cost........

[Zachary]

308 gets my vote

.308 for moose?

Now don't get me wrong, I think that the .308 is a wonderful round, and I'm sure it's capable of putting down a moose under the right circumstances..... but I think I would want something with a bit more "oomph" if I were chasing anything over 500 pounds.

That's what I used to think until I found out that most moose in Scandanavian countries are taken with the 6.5x55!

Zachary

[mjbgalt]

yep, that's what I was thinking, Zachary. I was going to place my vote for the swede.

-Matt

[kevthebassman]

I know that the Scandinavians do it.  I think if it were me I would shoot something along the lines of a .45-70.  Of course, I've never even seen a moose, not to mention shot one.  If I had a bit more experience with them maybe my opinion would be different.

[351 power]

an all around rifle shouldn't kick any more than a .30-06. probably would start looking for a light recoil rifle pretty soon if it did. i'm with .303 british too. killed alot of moose in this part of the world. mostly shot at 50 yds or so, coming to a call. used all over the world for just about everything

[Freezer]

  How many modern rifles in North America are being chambered in 303 Brit   There are only two bullet weights available that I know of.  The only rifles I've seen chamber a .311 bullet are obsolete battle rifles.  Sure there are some nice sporters but the caliber isn't versitle enough to call it an "All around cartridge".

[Devy55]

35 Whelen is my choice.  It'll kill everything in world except the largest game in Africa.

It's often the choice of Professional Hunters because of its knockdown power, good blood trail, and minimal damage to the meat.

The slow heavy bullet also shoots through brush better than the faster, smaller bullets which are more easily deflected.

The only drawback is that you're not going to shoot a elk from half a mile away, unless you're an artilleryman.

[351 power]

i go back to the original question. all round cartridge for deer,etc. average hunting at average ranges. that's allround. and i actually endorsed the .30-06 as you sort of read. i just added that i like the .303. and you can get 125g,150g,174g, 180g, and 215g[woodleigh] bullets. never mind cast options. fairly al'round selections. that ok for you freezer. and there are 7 million used rifles available. i wouldn't mind if they would build a handi in this caliber.

[Don Fischer]

I love my 6.5x55, its my third. Wouldn't hesitate to take on much of anything with it. also had a love affair with the 7x57. The 7x57 with a 150gr or heavier bullet is super. Probably say the same for the 7mm-08.

Question for the 30 cal crowd. Will the 30-06 or even 308 using a good 180gr bullet be any less effective than any 300 mag using say a 200 gr bullet? Why?

[mike30-06]

With the right bullet a 30-06 will or should effectively harvest in animal you would encounter in North America.