"the all around caliber" ?

[jro45]

I would choose the 300 or the 30/06. I think that either could do it.

[jasonprox700]

I have a .280, sooooo of course I am going to say that.  But what bugs the heck out me is how people will smash the .308 and praise the .30-06 like it is a god!  If a .308 wasn't enough gun, and I wanted to step it up a little, it would not be a .30-06, it would be a .300 WM or .300 WSM.  If a .308 can't kill it, then a .30-06 can't kill it.  I agree that a .30-06 is very versatile, more so that a .308 because of the heavyweights like the 200 grainers.  But there is not enough of a difference between the two with 180 grains and less to worry about.  The .308 has its plus sides, it is cheaper to buy factory ammo, cheaper to reload (less powder), and it is an inherently accurate round.  The .30-06 can handle heavier bullets and push bullets along at 100 fps faster. 

If I had a .308, and needed bigger, I would opt for a .338 WM, .35 Whelen, or even a .45-70.  But I  feel that the .308 would be adequate for the game intended.  Bigger game, go with more of a premium bullet in 180 grain, and you will be fine.  Same with the .30-06.  Either way, it is a horse a piece!  My .02!

[shootokill]

Best round for game mentioned is the .243 with 100 grain bullets.  Killed many moose, elk and grizzlies with it!  Can't be beat!!

[no guns here]

Dang... everybody arguin' and fussin' about two rifleguns shootin' the same dadburned boolits at almost the same speed...  I just cain't see that my '06 is that much more powerful than my .308.  The '06 has the edge in availability and commercial bullet selection.  Personally I still have three boxes of FailSafe's that tend to knock out anything I pull the trigger on.  Can't see that the same bullet 100 fps slower would do any less.  I guess if the MV of the two is 100fps apart and the .308 is too weak for huntin' then the '06 is too weak at 100 long steps...  Ya'll better not forget the .30-30 was pure lightnin' on those unarmored deer, elk and bear that were around 107 years ago.  Not sure when God decided to up-armor moose but I hope nobody finds out that some folks are shooting at them with arrows... 

Personally I'd hunt any deer/antelope in the world with either.  I'd take black bear with either.  I'd take moose with either with premium 180's.  I do believe in premium boolits (or hard cast for the .45-70).  I have bigger but don't really NEED bigger.  Don't let the prettier half hear that though... danged if that wouldn't cause problems!!!  If I was gonna hunt brownie's up close I'd probbly take one of my .45-70's or my .376 Steyr.  The Steyr would be good for longer range brownie's as well as any other dangerous game.
Ya'll enjoy...

ngh

[WyoStillhunter]

Best all around caliber for me could be any one of several.  I hunt close, (almost) never shoot over 200 yards, prefer fixed low-power scopes (Leupold M8 4x, Weaver K2.5, etc.), and have no interest in magnum cartridges.  I hunt antelope, mule deer, WT deer, elk, and someday, moose.

For 40+ years my go-to gun was M700 30-06.  It did everything I asked and still will.  There is no better all around caliber for how and what I hunt.

No better...but there are many just as good.  My .280 Rem., .257 Roberts, 6.5x55 SE, .35 Whelen and even my .444 Marlin would all serve me just as well...for how, where, and what I hunt from year to year.

For off-the-shelf rifles and over-the-counter ammo I vote for 30 caliber, 30-06 in particular: not very sexy but darned effective.

[cccombo]

.270

[nodlenor]

The all around caliber is only good for unicorn and jackalope.

[no guns here]

the last unicorn I took was a while back but I remember that .308 bouncin' right off of it's shoulder!  Came back at me a whinin' jes like a rikoshay in the movies!  Thank goodness my guide had his old '06 with him!  He put it down right quick-like with a shot just as he was a-startin' to charge!  Got nearly 4 foot of penetration with that 150 grain core-lokt boolit!  I sure was happy when that horn skidded to a stop at my bootlaces!  I got rid of that underpowered .308 the next day!  Threw that little puny rifle gun in Loch Ness...  Got one them '06's all set up for my next troll hunt!  Mebbe I'm undergunned but not sure...  Mebbe I should git rid a these small calibers  an git me a big 'ol elefant gun instead?  Ya'll think a five-hunnert nitro would stop a charging minotaur???


ngh

[Brithunter]

the last unicorn I took was a while back but I remember that .308 bouncin' right off of it's shoulder!  Came back at me a whinin' jes like a rikoshay in the movies!  Thank goodness my guide had his old '06 with him!  He put it down right quick-like with a shot just as he was a-startin' to charge!  Got nearly 4 foot of penetration with that 150 grain core-lokt boolit!  I sure was happy when that horn skidded to a stop at my bootlaces!  I got rid of that underpowered .308 the next day!  Threw that little puny rifle gun in Loch Ness...  Got one them '06's all set up for my next troll hunt!  Mebbe I'm undergunned but not sure...  Mebbe I should git rid a these small calibers  an git me a big 'ol elefant gun instead?  Ya'll think a five-hunnert nitro would stop a charging minotaur???


ngh

  Nope you need at least a 700 NE or failing that a 4 Bore double rifle which fires a 1/4lb slug!

[AtlLaw]

the last unicorn I took was a while back but I remember that .308 bouncin' right off of it's shoulder!  Came back at me a whinin' jes like a rikoshay in the movies!  Thank goodness my guide had his old '06 with him!  He put it down right quick-like with a shot just as he was a-startin' to charge!  Got nearly 4 foot of penetration with that 150 grain core-lokt boolit!  I sure was happy when that horn skidded to a stop at my bootlaces!  I got rid of that underpowered .308 the next day!  Threw that little puny rifle gun in Loch Ness...  Got one them '06's all set up for my next troll hunt!  Mebbe I'm undergunned but not sure...  Mebbe I should git rid a these small calibers  an git me a big 'ol elefant gun instead?  Ya'll think a five-hunnert nitro would stop a charging minotaur???


ngh

Nope you need at least a 700 NE or failing that a 4 Bore double rifle which fires a 1/4lb slug!

<Sigh>  The "big and slow bullet" faction heard from again...   Velocity is what you need to bring down them minotaurs!  And since I can't think of a factory cartridge that would fill the bill I imagine a wildcat would have to be developed.  Probably based on the 20mm shell like the round used by the Nauga hunters of years gone by.  Different concept since the Nauga's were hunted for their hides, but the same principle. 

[Sweet 6.5]

<Sigh>  The "big and slow bullet" faction heard from again...   Velocity is what you need to bring down them minotaurs!  And since I can't think of a factory cartridge that would fill the bill I imagine a wildcat would have to be developed.  Probably based on the 20mm shell like the round used by the Nauga hunters of years gone by.  Different concept since the Nauga's were hunted for their hides, but the same principle. 
[/quote] 
  with a 6.5 bullet to get the SD and BC right!

[yooper77]

The do-all 30-06 Springfield: from mice to moose, the venerable '06 can take 'em all

I personally like the 30-06 Springfield for any North American game animals.

I also like the 308 Winchester if I couldn't choose the 30-06 Springfield.

I don't like any belted or non-belted rifle magnum cartridges for my use, but others seem to like or think they need them.  I reload and I would hate to feed those huge cartridges or worst yet buy factory ammo.

yooper77

[no guns here]

Not to sure about that 6.5x20mm Vulcan concept for minotaurs.  They got some serious shoulder bones on them... I'm pretty sure I'd rather have a heavier bullet for that velocity.  I think (but not sure) that a .50 BMG might, just might be enough.  That 750 grain boolit just has to be able to penetrate better than that little 6.5...  Okay, so call me old fashioned.  I just can't get over the heavy and slow = great penetration = dead minotaur.  Might have to go belt-fed though...

ngh

[AtlLaw]

Now lets be realistic here...
I know I'm a 6.5 fan (on topic statement), and I may be corrected by someone more up to date on Green's - wasn't it Green's? - formula, but if:

50 cal = 12.7mm
6.5mm x 2 = 13mm  close enough to say the 50 cal is 2x the diameter of the 6.5.
The SD of a 750 gr. 50 cal projectile = .412
The SD of a 100 gr. .264 cal projectile = .205
100 x 2 = 200
.205 x 2 = .410  close enough to the SD of the 50 cal.
Therefore: a 200 gr. 6.5 bullet has the same SD as the standard 50 cal bullet.
AND!  with less frontal area it should out penetrate the 50!
AND!  fired from the same (20mm) case the 200 gr. bullet's velocity will be much greater then the 750 gr 50 cal!  which was my original statement, you need VELOCITY for them minotaurs!

I think Sweet 6.5 may be on to something here!

Now plug in Green's formula and get the twist rate for the barrel.  I'm tired...
I should think something around 1 in 3 to 1 in 5 should do it however. 

[Brithunter]

I think you mean Greenhill. as in Greenhill's Formula!

Whilst I do like 6.5mm as a calibre for big mean beasties that might want to chomp and stomp on me I would want something to put a bigger hole through them. Sure I will take high velocity as well but not necessarily hyper velocity I sort of like a blend to be somewhere in the Middle. It must work because Minotaurs as well as Dragons have been killed off here in the UK.

[AtlLaw]

I think you mean Greenhill. as in Greenhill's Formula!

That's the dude!   

[no guns here]

maybe a 6.5 solid...  I don't take much stock in all them formularies...  all I know is that an old dragon hunter told me that big boolits hit'em harder...  I figure if they work on dragons, they gotta work on smaller stuff too.  Maybe the minotaurs nervousness system is really susceptible to shock.  I'm still thinking a half-inch hole all the way through would let enough blood out to put'em down.  Why don't we do the best of both worlds???  We could neck down a 30mm round (from the A-10) and we could use a .50bmg bullet.  Oughta get about 8000fps out of it.  Then you'd have speed and mass...

[boaman88]

7MM Rem Mag or 300 Win Mag. Both fit the bill perfectly.

[chrsm]

a little different look! 7.5x55 Swiss within 200 yrds that should do it!

[T.R.]

The rifle is just a specialized tool when it comes right down to it.  The "nut" behind the butt plate is where adjustment is often needed but easily overlooked.

It takes an all around hunter to be successful with an all around rifle.  Know many all around hunters?

TR

[canon6]

6.5X55, I killed whitetail,mullies,elk and moose in Wyoming with it.120grain for  deer, 140gr Nosler partition for everything else.   Doug

[SHouston]

There is no right answer.  I've never hunted anything bigger than Elk.  I shot them with 7mm's, .30-30, .308, .250 Savage (7 Pt. Royal Bull), and a .300 Weatherby.  The .250 is definitely small, and I just can't get warm and fuzzy with the 7mm Mag.  The .30-30 did a great job in thick brush, ambush style, close range.  That leaves us with a .308 and a .300 Weatherby.  Both shooting a 125 gr. nostler ballistic tip.  The .300 is flatter, but I think they both kill about the same.  My "one" gun for everything I will ever encounter is the .308.  I've shot it for over 30 years, and it gets the job done.  I like the shorter action, and lighter rifle I can use with the .308.     Just my two cents.

[lilabner]

Your best choice is the 30-06. Discount stores sell Rem. or Winchester ammo cheap right before hunting season and it is plenty good enough for deer. For elk or moose, go for Hornady Light Magnum ammo as it is loaded for faster and more powerful. For just shooting tin cans and such, there is military surplus ammo at Cheaper Than Dirt and several other internet outlets and you can shoot a lot for not too much money. Too bad you don't handload.  Nosler reloading manual # 6 lists 165 gr. bullet at over 3,000 FPS and 180 at almost 2,900 FPS and that is plenty of  power to handle a big moose. Check out Savage or Stevens rifles. They are good shooters.

[Mohawk]

  .30-06 all the way. Any other similar caliber creation was to sell guns and subsequent ammo. If I read one more debate about the 150grain bullet in .30-06, .308, 280, and .270---Which Is Better???---I am going to scream!!!!!    THEY ARE ALL THE SAME!!!!!! 3 one-hundreths of an inch does not mean, squat!!! Geez......when will this end. I'm sure not before the .281 or the .274 calibers are unveiled, or whatever to boost sales. They can chamber it in a $1,200 rifle and call in an "improvement".  It makes you want to just settle for a standard .338 Win Mag so that everything in North America is covered and worry about over seas if you go there....MY Rant....................Mohawk.

[Cement Man]

Mohawk,
I could agree that an '06 roughly covers the same ground that many other cartridges do, and I don't think so much variety is a stark necessity for many of us. However,
I find the plethora of cartridges to be nicely consonant with our capitalistic economy and freedom of choice to follow whatever idiosynchratic ballistics pursuit that we want to.  For many of us, that's the fun of it.  I have rifles in a dozen or more CF cartridges from .223 to .45-70.  That's a lot of dies, bullets, brass, powder, rifles, scopes, mounts, and what not that helped somebody to have jobs, and me to have some fun.  I don't think I would own that many '06's.  So what's wrong with the variety? 
One thing that is evident here at GBO is that there are many folks who do enjoy and know how to maximize the potential that many cartridges have with different loads, bullet types and weights. 
It isn't some sinister, evil thing to invent a new cartridge or a new load and want the shooting public to embrace it.  The market will decide if it is a success or not and I think that's the way things are supposed to work.  The way I look at it, it's good for the shooting sports and it's good for the economy. It gives the "believers" something to talk about, the rifle makers some rifles to make (and sell), ammo and component makers more of a market, the tinkerers something to tinker with, the arguers something to argue about, and the whiners something to whine about.  So what?  Far as I'm concerned, the more cartridges and folks that want to discuss them, the merrier.
Sure would be an interesting place if everyone could only talk about their 150 gr. '06, wouldn't it.

[Brithunter]

Sure would be an interesting place if everyone could only talk about their 150 gr. '06, wouldn't it.

150 grain in an 06??? Hmmm never thought of such a thing  me is thinking the 165 is the normal use bullet then heavier for bigger stuff  I found that the 165 works so well in the 308 so I just carried on and used it in the ole 06'  Did try some 130's in the 308 but didn't get the accuracy I wanted so didn't bother trying in the 06.

[Cement Man]

Well Brithunter, change it to 165 then, for the sake of conversation. Actually in an '06, the 165 is my most frequently used weight.  You make my point exactly.  It's nice to have this discussion about variety, and the pluses and minuses of all.

BTW, I dare say that 30 years ago you would have found the majority of '06 factory loadings to be either 150 or 180 gr. with 165 in the distinct minority.  150's were considered by many to be the standard for deer sized and lighter game, and 180's for the bigger stuff. As Ed Matunas opined many years ago, 165's were for people who couldn't decide.   I believe that the 165's have since grown in popularity as better bullets have been developed and folks have taken a liking to the performance of 165's.

Again, the point is that variety is good!

[Mohawk]

  One thing I will say about the .30-06 150gr. is that it was the only known load to me until I was 19yrs old. Between a whitetail at 20yds or a mulie buck at 350yds it did its job. I did not mean to state in my earlier post that other comparible calibers were usless, but more like they were "customers's choice". My main rifle is a .280 handi, which works very well, but that is a personal choice, definately, not a choice against the .30-06. To be honest, I bought the .280 because of the camo-laminate stock and it was a "Limited Edition", with a caliber comparible to the .30-06, but I hear ya' Cement Man.........

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

     Actually I chose the 165grain bullet when I had a 300 Win Mag as it seemed about the best weight for retained energy as I recall. never got to hunt with the Ruger No1B after all but used the same bullets in the ZKK 601 Brno I brought one Christmas Eve then a few years ago when I acquired the 30-06 I used them in that. Now I do use 150 grain bullets in the 8x57mm (7.92mm Mauser) but would prefer something about 170 grain however I have to use what I can get and that is 150 grain of 196 grain  .

[Coyote Hunter]

150’s have never fouled the bore in my .308 Win, various .30-06’s or .300 win Mag.  For the most part I use I use 180’s in the .300WM and 165/168’s in the others.

Have tried 150’s in the .30-30 but prefer 170’s for hunting and 130’s for plinking.