8x57 Mauser on Plains Game?

[lgm270]

Anyone have any experience using the 8x57 mm Mauser as a plains game rifle?  How does it compare with the .30-06?  Favorite loads? Bullets?

[deltecs]

Anyone have any experience using the 8x57 mm Mauser as a plains game rifle?  How does it compare with the .30-06?  Favorite loads? Bullets?

No experience on plains game, but ballistics are comparable, so results should be similar.  Enough similar that I don't think the game would show any difference.  I've never seen any different game reaction using one on game in NA compared to an "06.

[Texgun]

 Should work fine. I took 3 gold medals and a silver last June with a 7X69s.

[lgm270]

I  know an optimally loaded 8x57 is considered to be in the same power range as the 30-06, but it has a larger diameter bullet and I was wondering if this made any difference.  An optimally  200 Grain Nosler partition can generally get about 2,600 fps.  This is about the same as a 180 grain factory 30.06 load, but of course is 20 grains heavier. 


8mm fans say that it "kills" very well for its power level.  Obviously fans of a  particular cartridge tend to be very accomplished and experienced with it and this may influence objectivity.   A .270 WCF in the hands of a ".270 afictionado"  who loads, practices and knows every square centimeter of his/her rifle will seem to be a great killer, if for no o ther reason than the skill and expertise of the shooter.

 Has anyone any opinion or observation about whether the 8x57 "kills" better or the same as comparable .30 caliber rounds.  Hopefully a non-8x57 fan who observed the 8mm and has some measure of objectivity.  All stories, however, are welcome! 

[Grumulkin]

Who was it?  John "Pondoro" Taylor I believe, that shot all those elephants with a 7X57 Mauser.  The 8X57 Mauser would be just dandy on plains game.

[lgm270]

Who was it?  John "Pondoro" Taylor I believe, that shot all those elephants with a 7X57 Mauser.  The 8X57 Mauser would be just dandy on plains game.

Actually it was W.D.M. "Karamojo"  Bell who shot elephants with the 7x57.

 

[JJHACK]

the 7mm for elephants is such a hoax by todays standards. Please realize he was a poacher who did in fact kill hundreds of elephants with a 7mm.

However there was a lot more to this. He would shoot as many as he could in a herd and let them scatter until his giant caravan of donkey carts could safely move on to the next herd. His trackers led the way, folloing spoor and getting him ready to shoot. They might travel the bush for a month or two shooting all along the way. In this time they would deplete all the resources of food and water and then return back the same way they came. During the one way trip out they did not collect any ivory, they just shot elephants and left them to run off. Much safer this way and no work at all to spend hours trying to chop away the ivory from the fresh kill.

Then on the return a month or so later they followed their noses, and the hyenas, vultures, and lions to the dead elephants. At which point they could very easily slide out the ivory as they had been rotting in the sun for a month or more. No worries no animals eat or pack off the ivory. He was not hunting and doing the right thing with a sporting arm, he simply put a lethal shot into a bull that may die that night or next week, no matter he was in no hurry to collect the ivory til next month anyhow. The same trackers running ahead and scouting on the way in, scouted for the dead bulls on the way out.

You cannot ever compare what Bell did as a sporting, ethical, or functional means of hunting. No more then shooting a whitetail in the guts with a .22 rimfire would be and then finding his antlers after the spring thaw. Who then would say  " Well so and so shoots huge bucks with only a .22 rimfire......... so then it must be good enough to be called a deer rifle!

He's accomplished an amazing feat with a small arm, but he was still a poacher and broke many laws. Not to mention the unethical and brutal slow death of hundreds of elephants.

[Dixie Dude]

I read somewhere that he shot them with FMJ ammo in between the eyes or between the eye and ear.  "Brained" them, then came back later to collect the ivory.  Of course he did this before WWII when there really wasn't any game laws. 

[lgm270]

the 7mm for elephants is such a hoax by todays standards. Please realize he was a poacher who did in fact kill hundreds of elephants with a 7mm.

However there was a lot more to this. He would shoot as many as he could in a herd and let them scatter until his giant caravan of donkey carts could safely move on to the next herd. His trackers led the way, folloing spoor and getting him ready to shoot. They might travel the bush for a month or two shooting all along the way. In this time they would deplete all the resources of food and water and then return back the same way they came. During the one way trip out they did not collect any ivory, they just shot elephants and left them to run off. Much safer this way and no work at all to spend hours trying to chop away the ivory from the fresh kill.

Then on the return a month or so later they followed their noses, and the hyenas, vultures, and lions to the dead elephants. At which point they could very easily slide out the ivory as they had been rotting in the sun for a month or more. No worries no animals eat or pack off the ivory. He was not hunting and doing the right thing with a sporting arm, he simply put a lethal shot into a bull that may die that night or next week, no matter he was in no hurry to collect the ivory til next month anyhow. The same trackers running ahead and scouting on the way in, scouted for the dead bulls on the way out.

You cannot ever compare what Bell did as a sporting, ethical, or functional means of hunting. No more then shooting a whitetail in the guts with a .22 rimfire would be and then finding his antlers after the spring thaw. Who then would say  " Well so and so shoots huge bucks with only a .22 rimfire......... so then it must be good enough to be called a deer rifle!

He's accomplished an amazing feat with a small arm, but he was still a poacher and broke many laws. Not to mention the unethical and brutal slow death of hundreds of elephants.

\

I agree with your sentiments.   I never knew the details of Bells' techniques but suspected something unpraisworthy.  This man was no friend of hunting and we know and love it.   It sickens me to think of treating animals that way. 

[TribReady]

DixieDude-  Weren't you looking at going to Africa with an 8mm?? I may be wrong, of course, but if yes, you'd could give some more insight into the question.  (Don't take that wrong, any of you, because I enjoy reading the side story on this Bell guy also)

I personally love my 8mm, but unfortunately, it will only harvest deer in WI.  I think it's versatile enough and adequate for just about anythng in Africa up to 300 yds

[Dixie Dude]

Yes I was wanting to go to Africa, but my 401(k) took a nosedive.  It will probably be 5 years or more now until it gets back up.  I was also wanting to retire early.  I have since bought a 35 Whelen built on an FN Mauser action that I wanted to try.  I also have a 30-06 also built on an FN Mauser action as a back up.  Love those Mauser actions.  I read about WDM Bell in an old Field and Stream or Outdoor Life back in the early 80's.  He lived long enough to see the .308 come out, and said it would be a good elephant gun.  Article said he brained them with FMJ bullets. 

[CGPAUL]

Well I sure hope it`s going to work as I`m taking mine in Sept. this year. Settled on the 175 grn Sierra over 4320, at 2850fps. 60 rounds loaded and waiting to go.
Don`t think I will find it wanting.

[Drilling Man]

Anyone have any experience using the 8x57 mm Mauser as a plains game rifle?  How does it compare with the .30-06?  Favorite loads? Bullets?

  I have shot moose and blk. bear, along with a LOT of other big game with my 8x57 using 200 NP's loaded to 2,550 fps...  Yes, it does work well, but i've also used a 30-06 loaded with 200 NP's, and in my experience, the 30-06 out performed the 8mm on the biggest animals...

  DM

[lgm270]

Well I sure hope it`s going to work as I`m taking mine in Sept. this year. Settled on the 175 grn Sierra over 4320, at 2850fps. 60 rounds loaded and waiting to go.
Don`t think I will find it wanting.

Would enjoy hearing more about your rifle and other hunting experiences with it.

[SHOOTALL]

Bell shot about half of the critters with a 6.5 .
must have hated recoil or something . Kidding

[CGPAUL]

This is a Rem 700 Classic, which I`ve added new bottom metal, pillar bedded and glassed. I`ve had for about three years. Worked up loads for Wy. using Hornady 150 grn bullets, TAC, at 3k. Shot two deer, both DRT, longest at 200yrds. Didn`t get a chance to try on lopes. This rifle shoots this combo consistantly accuratly to 300 yrds...longest range I tried it at.
I`ve shot the Sierra 175 for years in my 8mm06AI. Excellent bullet. Taken deer and Elk with it, so decided to try in the 8x57. Am not dissapointed. I`ve a lupi glass with the B&C reticule, and feel confident in the whole set up for ranges to 350 yrds, which could be the case on the game were hunting, per the outfitter. Wildebest, gemsbuck, springbuck.
Very happy with the rifle.

[lgm270]

This is a Rem 700 Classic, which I`ve added new bottom metal, pillar bedded and glassed. I`ve had for about three years. Worked up loads for Wy. using Hornady 150 grn bullets, TAC, at 3k. Shot two deer, both DRT, longest at 200yrds. Didn`t get a chance to try on lopes. This rifle shoots this combo consistantly accuratly to 300 yrds...longest range I tried it at.
I`ve shot the Sierra 175 for years in my 8mm06AI. Excellent bullet. Taken deer and Elk with it, so decided to try in the 8x57. Am not dissapointed. I`ve a lupi glass with the B&C reticule, and feel confident in the whole set up for ranges to 350 yrds, which could be the case on the game were hunting, per the outfitter. Wildebest, gemsbuck, springbuck.
Very happy with the rifle.

What kind of ballistics did y ou get with your 8mm/06AI?

[CGPAUL]

Balistics 8mm06AI. I think are impressive. I`ve worked with this cartridge for over twenty years, killed deer and elk. I`ve shot primairly the 150`s and 175s`, just because these Sierra bullets shoot so well in my rifle. The 150s` are pushed over 3200fps, the 175s` over 3000fps...in MY rifle...which is a 1909 action Mauser, 24 inch Douglas, 1-10 CM barrel. 4064 and 4895 work best for me. On deer, the 150s` were way to destructive, much bloodshot meat, but I`ve never trailed a deer either, hit with this bullet. I load the 175s now for deer, a little tougher bullet in my estimation. Killed a bull elk 4 yrs ago in Col at a lazed 420 yrds with this bullet, just because I could not get closer. Bullet broke both front shoulders, found on the off side in the hide.
I`ve used Nosler 180 grn BT too in Canada on deer, same dead results very quickly.
Shot the Speer 200 grn, but not on game, bullet shot very well, also Hawk 220`s. Not cronied the heavy bullets.
Please don`t come back and tell me I`m hot-roding this cartridge...I realy do enjoy my head and hands.
This is a thumb-nail report on MY rifle and this cartridge.

[CGPAUL]

Well, we went to SA, saw, shot, and killed all in our management package, plus one nice gemsbok, which my son took using the 8x57. His scope went south the 2nd day of our hunt, so we rotated my rifle between us the remainder of the hunt.
As I mentioned, the 8x57 load was 52grn of 4320 under a 175 Sierra, for 2850fps over my crony. This bullet has worked very well for me over the past 20+ yrs in my 8mm06AL. and prover as effecient in the 8x57.
We killed a total of nine animals, springbok, wildebest, reedbok, blesbok, and the gemsbok. Ryan killed a springbok and widebest with his 8x300WSM befor the scope on his rifle went.
With Ryans animals, each one shot kills, the 8x57 compiled the rest, all one shot kills. The shots ranged from 80yrds, my first springbok, all yardages called by our PH BTB, to my last of 300, again a springbok. The wildebest were at 200.
I`ve shot this rifle quite extensivly, so comfortable with the yardages. Tested befor the hunt to 400 yrds, MOA at all ranges the norm. I used a lupi scope, 4.5x14, with B&C reticules, but zerroed 1.5 inches high at 200, I didn`t hold off any shot.
So did it kill any better than an 06...I don`t know. I just know we didn`t miss a shot, and all animals either dropped right there, or ran about 80 yrds befor falling...wildebest.
I know we felt comfortable in the country we hunted..open rolling hills and washes..very simular to the Americam West. Also dry, smi-arid and bout 4k in elevation. Again, much like Wy. So the vast expances was to out eyes normal, and we didn`t think the game was further than they actually were. Shooting was great.
I would take this combo back in a heartbeat..