How to create minimal loads?

[Maplicito]

I haven't gotten to fire off more than 4 or 5 of my reloaded rounds, and won't get to fire off any more until this coming weekend, so I'm entertaining myself with contemplating more future loads in the meantime...

What I'm wondering is - my understanding is that too light a load of powder can cause its own problems, and can actually increase pressure.  Should one never go below the "starting load" in a reloading manual?  Or would one gradually work down from that load just like one would gradually work up?  Are there specific warning signs one would watch for in a load that was too light?

I quite enjoy taking others shooting with me... but I'm a rather large man, the people I take shooting with me aren't always nearly so large, and are more recoil sensitive.  A couple of them are girls in the 100 to 120 lbs range who'd like nothing more than to brag up shooting a "man's gun" - and while one of the smaller ones did quite admirably with my .338, it'd be nice to make it a little gentler on them.

Completely off topic - any of the singles out there find that contrary to the stereotype, women quite enjoy going shooting?  I've only had one exception to that, and I think the only reasons she didn't enjoy it are that A) the boom scared her and B) she panicked as she pulled the trigger, and pulled the gun away from her shoulder only to have it kick back at her.  All the others have thoroughly enjoyed it, I've even got one who wants me to do some reloading with her!

[stimpylu32]

Bryan

Depending on the round that your loading , if Hodgdons lists it as a useable powder you can use their 60% rule to load up light loads .

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/youth/index.php

This is only for H4895 powder !!

I have done this in my 22-250 and 243 with good results .

As for the other , ANY time you can get someone shooting its a good thing , be they man or woman . It just adds to the number of people that enjoy the shooting sports .

Richard

[Questor]

I would call the powder company and ask for a specific load recommendation if I couldn't find the data in my collection of manuals.

I prefer to give new shooters a .22 LR to shoot. They enjoy it and it's inexpensive. Most can shoot it better than they can shoot any centerfire. They enjoy breaking reactive targets like cans and clay pigeons.

For reduced loads, I start beginning centerfire shooters with a starting load for a light bullet. For example, a 150 grain .308 or a 40 grain .223. I figure that if they can't handle that, then they are not ready to shoot that rifle for its intended purpose. Initially at these sessions I stress the importance of properly holding the gun to prevent recoil discomfort. I also give them the best ear protection, like my set of 29dB Peltors.

I also have them start shooting recoiling rifles from the standing position. Not for accuracy, but to get used to the noise and recoil with less discomfort.

After they are used to the lighter loads (after several trips to the range), I'll have them try a shot with the .375H&H. They all say it's not bad. But by then, they know how to hold a rifle.

Bottom line is that I think using highly reduced loads for new shooters is like treating the symptom and not the disease.

[LaOtto222]

The main problem with light loads is their unpredictability. You can load up a batch of reduced loads and shoot 20 off with no problems, then the 21st one will blow up your gun. That is the problem they are unpredictable. Stick to recommended loads, if you really must go lower do as Stimpy pointed out. I have an old Speer manual that listed some light loads with H4895 edited should be SR 4759

[Maplicito]

Thanks for the advice.  I've got a .22 for the learners... but some of them are definitely attracted to the larger gun.  For the one I mentioned who didn't have a good experience - I think I'm gonna pick me up a 20 or 28 gauge... she decided she had to try clay pigeons and all I had was 12 gauges.  Everyone else enjoys the feel of the .338... but most people are limited to two or three shots.  I think I might look at what I can do to the gun to reduce recoil though - it's a T3 light, so it's got a little recoil.

I think reducing the recoil would be a good thing for myself anyway - if I can shoot it decently when it's recoiling heavily, I'd assume I've gotta shoot at least as well and possibly better if it has less recoil.

[LaOtto222]

I have a correction to make. I got home and looked up the old Speer manual. It is Speer manual #10 circa 1979. The latest one is #14. Any way the powder I was referring to was SR 4759. I do not think they make it any more, not sure on that. It was designed as a reduced load powder. Just as an example it listed 19 grains in a .308 with a 165 grain bullet as 1593 fps. If you are looking for a modern safe load follow Stimpy's link and do exactly what they suggest. Only use H4895 as a reduced load if the powder is listed as a regular powder in full loads. Just one more warning do not use cast or lead bullet loads for jacketed bullets. They behave differently in the bore so loads should not be interchanged. You would not think so but reduced loads can be risky, be careful.

[Maplicito]

Yeah, the reduced load being dangerous is counterintuitive to me, but I think I can see how that would work - but either way, I'm new to the hobby, and I know you guys have been doing it for a lot longer than I have - so I know when to check my pride at the door, and listen up.  When I get around to trying reduced loads, if I indeed decide to - if my powder isn't listed on that site, I'll try contacting the maker of my powder directly.  I haven't blown myself up yet, and I intend to keep it that way!

[njanear]

A .338 Win Mag through a 7lb rifle is going to get most people's attention - mainly due to the bullet weights offered.  You could always get the light Barnes bullets (160gr) to reduce the recoil but then your expense would be ~$35 per 50 in just the bullets alone.  You could get the 225s from Grafs for $20 per 100, but that bullet mass just adds to the recoil.  If you notice the .300 Win Mag youth loads at Hodgdon's, they are for pushing 125gr to 135gr bullets down range - .338s just don't get light bullets like that.

Those big old belted cases have a bunch of room and I am of the thought that they need to be filled with powder to keep the burn even; of course, saying that, I never got around to reloading my M77R .338 because I never take it out of the safe any more (too much cost + too many other irons in the fire + too little range time = safe queen  ).  I am sure that someone will have some lighter powder loads for you, but like you said, you really need to pursue the 'recoil reduction' devices (i.e. limbsavers or something like that), as well as possibly a PAST recoil pad (for the new shooters) to help make it more bearable for them.

[Val]

The Speer manual lists reduced loads for most calibers. These are tried and tested loads. I would recommend getting the speer manual.

[Maplicito]

All great advice, thanks guys.  I made the plunge into reloading to save money... or shoot more for the same money... but to be honest, I'm finding reloading, and contemplating new loads to be as fun and exciting as the shooting itself.

As for the 160 grain Speers... I've been thinking I might try and pick them up in the near future just to give them a try.  Sounds like I'll have to get their handbook too.  Gives me an excuse to pick up another manual.

[murphdog]

Maplicito,

You might go to "http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm" and read the article there about using fast pistol powders to create safe low-velocity loads for cowboy action shooting.  I found the site while looking for light loads for my 44 magnum.  The site lists a lot of loads for different cartridges, but unfortunately .338 is not one of them.  Nevertheless, the essay on light-loading cartridges might be of some use to you.  I know I found it very interesting. 

Duane

[Camba]

I had experimented with Blue Dot for a while and I picked up some ideas from a moderator in www.HuntChat.com (Rocky Rab?) for reduced loads and this are my results:

Rifle:  Browning MicroMedallion
Caliber:  .223 Rem
Bullet: 55gr Sierra GameKing
Primer: WSP, CCI-500 (pistol primers)
Powder:  Blue Dot
Powder charge:  12.5gr (max)
Velocity:  2560 fps
Groups:  .23" @ 50 yds; 1.0" @ 100 yds

Rifle:  Remington Model Seven
Caliber:  7mm08 Rem
Bullet: 120gr Sierra Pro Hunter
Primer: WLP, CCI-300 (pistol primers)
Powder:  Blue Dot
Powder charge:  16.0gr
Velocity: 1905 fps
Groups:  .35" @ 50yds; 1.0" @ 100 yds

Rifle:  Remington Model Seven
Caliber:  7mm08 Rem
Bullet: 120gr Sierra Pro Hunter
Primer: WLP, CCI-300 (pistol primers)
Powder:  Blue Dot
Powder charge:  24.0gr
Velocity: 2488 fps
Groups:  1.0" @ 50yds; 2.0" @ 100 yds

Rifle:  Remington Model Seven
Caliber:  7mm08 Rem
Bullet: 140gr Rem Bulk
Primer: WLP, CCI-300 (pistol primers)
Powder:  Blue Dot
Powder charge:  24.0gr
Velocity: 2394 fps
Groups:  1.0" @ 50yds; 2.5" @ 100 yds