Blackhorn 209 Site

[UtahRob]

  With the price of gas and the nearest dealer ( sportsman's Warehouse ) being 90 miles round trip , almost as cheap to pay the haxmat fee's .
  So i ordered two more tubs  on-line . Also Sportsman's Warehouse is selling it as fast as they get it . I don't do a lot of shooting , so the three tubs i have will  last me  through the deer and Elk hunting season's . I am trying  to get a local sporting goods store to carry it . The BH 209 powder is the best powder i have ever used . Never had a powder clean up SOOOO easy . Also , i sure see no  need for my .25 breech plug conversion or  muzzle-loader 209 primers .  The Regular Winchester 209 primers worked great in my Encore ,did not have to clean the barrel between shots, and outstanding  accuracy . I will never use anything else .

[encore3006]

 

[UtahRob]

UtahRob,

Ignore the PM asking for the price at your local Sportsman's Warehouse. The one near me charges $29.99 and I bought several.

I had a chance to try it today and I agree 100% with your comments. The biggest plus for me is the ability to reload easily...the crude ring is GONE. The next plus is improved accuracy.

At 100 gr charge one can get 62.5 charges per 10 oz container which works out to about 48 cents plus sales tax and/or haz met fee.

Defiantly good powder .
I ordered two more can's that should be here tomorrow , and  i hope to get out and do some more shooting this week .
I have a new Sightron 1x scope on my Encore so i need to get it sighted in .

I have only shot the BH powder at 50 yards , but i feel with a scope i could have put every shot in the same hole .  The shot at 4 o'clock was all me,  i  jerked  the trigger.

[tc scout]

Finally got to the range today to shoot my TC triumph and try Blackhorn 209 powder. In my opinion this powder is everything the manufacture claims it to be. It is clean and accurate. The Triumph shoots very good with this powder, under 1" groups @ 50 yds. with 80 grs powder and a 210 gold dot and crush rib sabot. This was my first load tested, will need more testing to find the best bullet/powder combination, used this one because I had used it before with good results. Testing was halted by rain so I didn't get a chance to try 100 yds.This powder is a keeper IMO.     

[nomosendero]

Busta, thanks for the research & info!! I have a new CVA Optima Elite & I will try it soon with several sabot/bullet combos. Thanks!!

[TheSuper]

Looks like we are getting closer. Not much information for now but they have a comparison chart and contact info.

http://www.blackhorn209.com/

http://www.blackhorn209.com/comparison.html
Busta, a little info for you and any other Canadian guests (like me) or members ... just got an e-mail from Doug at Western Powders stating that they now have Canadian approval for BH209; should be available in 30 days or so and is likely to be handled by Cecil at PR Bullets. Great news for us northerners dying to try this stuff !!

[Busta]

TheSuper,

Sounds good! Maybe we can get Cecil to market a BH209 Plug for the NEF??? All they would have to do is cut a 209 primer pocket in the .25 ACP plug instead of the .25 ACP. I may have to give Cecil a call.

[TheSuper]

That's a great idea,Busta ... it'd be a win-win deal for Cecil ; sell more of his plugs and more BH209 !!

[Lane]

Well boys,

I finally got some BH209 and hope to get out this weekend with the 45 Disc Elite

I AM SO STOKED

.

[Lane]

OK

I'm back,  And BH209 is Amazing


And remember, I'm just shooting off some folding tables I got from Wally World....

45cal SS Disc Elite with NFPJ and FPJ.  200g SST's and ShockWaves and some 180g 40cal Gold Dots.  Hot and Humid, 93 degrees :lol:

Started out with 150g BH209 and took 3 shots with NFPJ :shock:
  I just wanted to see if the 200g SST would be stabilized, and not keyhole.......It was stable     at 2610fps.  Then my battery died on the chrony, so had to replace it    But I only got to chrony the one shot of 150g BH209 :x   

Chrony Results for 200g SST in MMP Tan Sabot with BH209, NFPJ:

150gV, 108gW = 2610fps

130gV, 93.6gW = 2450fps   (180g Gold Dot = 2487)

120gV,  86.5gW = 2354fps   (FPJ = 2295fps)



200g ShockWaves------110gV,  80gW = 2223fps

                                  90gV,  65gW = 1962fps


275g PowerBelts, FPJ,   100gV, 72gW = 1930fps 

                                                              50gV, 36gW = 1504fps
 
 300g Platinum PowerBelt,                         50gV, 36gW = 1300fps
                                                              60gV,  43gW = 1500fps


NFPJ, 36cal, 70g Round Ball in MMP 40/357cal sabot.  30gV, 21.6gW = 1282fps

Here are some targets, all shots at 120 Yards:


























So now I'm really pooped    :lol:   



.

[encore3006]

 

[Lane]

I set my Chrony up about 10 feet away.  Later after I've got tight groups at 50yards, I will move it to the 25 yard target and get some down range readings.  At 25 yards the sabots are no where close to mess up the readings.  I have a ProChrono with protective clear Lexan cover to help deter the stray sabot

[encore3006]

 

[Lane]

Lane,

Please describe the Lexan cover; is it mounted just in front of the first screen with a triangle opening cut through the Lexan?

If you have a picture of the setup...that would be helpful.

Thanks.

http://www.competitionelectronics.com/pages/PC_accessories.html

[encore3006]

 

[Bob the Cynic]

This stuff's the real deal.

I just got back from giving it a first try at the range.  My overall impression is quite positive.  It proved to be accurate and easy to clean.

I was shooting my MDM Buckwacka (23" Barrel) using both 240g xtp and 250g shockwave bullets paired with TC mag express sabots.  My primers were CCI 209m shotshell  primers.  All shots were 50 yards.

I started with the 240g XTPs at 80g and worked up in 5g increments.

My first three shot group measured 1.25"

My next two three shot groups measured 0.75" with 85g and 90g.

At 95g my group openned up to two inches, so I went back down to 90g and tried the 250g shockwaves which have always proved to be very accurate in that gun.

I shot several three shot groups which ranged from 2.0" to 0.75"

For me, this qualifies as very good shooting.

As for clean up, it was a breeze.  After some experimentation I found that running a damp patch down the barrel between shots did help with loading as the barrel on this gun is rather tight.  The patches were pretty black but I don't know how much of that was do to the primers.  CCI has always struck me as rather dirty.

Overal, two big thumbs up.  No crud ring, no failures to fire, easy clean up and accurate, what's not to like.  The only downsides I noticed is poor availability.  No place in my area carries it, so I had to order it on line and pay the hazmat fee, thus making it rather expensive.  Also there was no big cloud of smoke.     I rather like the big noxious cloud that pyrodex produced, but with all the upside to this powder I guess I can learn to live with out that.

Tomorrow or Thursday I hope to make it back to the range and do some shooting at 100 yards.

Until then,

Good shootin' to y'all.

..........sometime later.........

OK so I made it back to the range today and shot at 100 yards.  Accuracy remained exceptional, three shot groups averaged one to two inches.  Those larger than that were entirely do to my weak efforts behind the trigger and were not any fault of the load.

I tried not swabbing between shots and found to my surprise that it truly wasn't necessary.  I fired twenty one shots without swabbing and my best group (1") came with the last three shots.  A little hoppe's and a couple of patches and everything was shiny and new  again.  Pretty damn cool.

Best load:  90g BH209, CCI 209m primers, TC 250g shockwave.

Still miss the smoke though.   

[7-30 Waters]

Here is a link for Blackhorn 209 load data.

http://www.blackhorn209.com/files/pdf/b209muzzleloaderdata.pdf

Spoke with the good people at Western Powders.  Blackhorn 209 is made by IMR Powder in Canada.  For those of you who haven't seen it yet, the powder is extruded sticks with a hole down the center of each powder grain. 

The only other powder I know of that physically looks like this is SR 4759.  Also, made by IMR powders of Canada.

When asked what brand of 209 primer seem to function the best.  CCI 209 was the brand that caused the least amount of sooty build up.

[mudhen]

Ordered some from Mid-South last week.

Didn't read their website first and it turns out I can't use it in my T/C Endeavor 

I'll burn it up in the T/C Triumph and then stick with 777 Magnum pellets from there on.

mudhen

[Busta]

mudhen,

Why can't you use it in the Endeavor? I thought it used the same breech plug as a Triumph, no? I know guys that are using it in the Triumph and it is working very well.

[mudhen]

mudhen,

Why can't you use it in the Endeavor? I thought it used the same breech plug as a Triumph, no? I know guys that are using it in the Triumph and it is working very well.

Nope, different breech plug.  Looks similar to the Triumph, but not the same.  The primer is not totally enclosed on the new Endeavor plug, it's cut-out for the primer extractor to work.

But I'm fine with 777 Magnum pellets - no crud ring - no problem cleaning up with 777 primers - 1.25" groups at 100 yards.  All is well for now.

mudhen

[Busta]

Yep, forgot abut the extractor. I know guys have removed the extractors from their Encores and Pro Hunters, would a Triumph plug work in a Endeavor with the extractor removed? In other words, are the plugs identical except for the extractor cut-out?

I really don't think you would have a problem with the Endeavor plug, the cut-out would be well back of the front of the primer and the standing breech would hold it from moving rearward and losing the seal.

[mudhen]

Yep, forgot abut the extractor. I know guys have removed the extractors from their Encores and Pro Hunters, would a Triumph plug work in a Endeavor with the extractor removed? In other words, are the plugs identical except for the extractor cut-out?

I really don't think you would have a problem with the Endeavor plug, the cut-out would be well back of the front of the primer and the standing breech would hold it from moving rearward and losing the seal.

Maybe, but I'm not going to spend $60 for another Triumph breech or possibly damage any of my Triumph plugs in order to find out!

The photo on the bottle of what plugs to NOT use looks just like how the primer sits in the Endeavor breech plug, so I'm not willing to take a chance w/o specific approval from BH 209.  I'll contact them soon.

mudhen

[Varmint Hunter]

The site says that BH209 is for rifles with an "enclosed 209 ignition system" or something like that. IMO, that definition describes the ignition system of the Endeavor/ProHunter.  I do not believe that the extractor groove is an issue or what the notice is referring to.

I have been shooting 120gr V charges of BH209 in my 209x50 ProHunter for a while with no ill effect. Accuracy has been quite good too.

If there is any authoritative information indicating that I should NOT be using BH209 in my ProHunter, I'd sure like to see it.

mudhen,

Why can't you use it in the Endeavor? I thought it used the same breech plug as a Triumph, no? I know guys that are using it in the Triumph and it is working very well.

Nope, different breech plug.  Looks similar to the Triumph, but not the same.  The primer is not totally enclosed on the new Endeavor plug, it's cut-out for the primer extractor to work.

But I'm fine with 777 Magnum pellets - no crud ring - no problem cleaning up with 777 primers - 1.25" groups at 100 yards.  All is well for now.

mudhen

[12ptdroptine]

Is the price on this stuff expected to come down as it gets more available?

[Varmint Hunter]

Is the price on this stuff expected to come down as it gets more available?

This stuff seems to sell as fast as it comes in at the current price. Profits are probably just beginning to off-set the high costs of R&D, but who knows. I'd be surprised to see the price drop any time soon.

However, a 1lb can at a more reasonable price would be a big seller IMO.

[normanhow]

Could someone tell me if I can use Blackhorn in a Knight orginal disc? Do I need a different breech plug or will it work okay with the one that came with it? Thanks.

[Busta]

normanhow,

I have read a report where it worked, I think on Modern Muzzleloader. I can't remember what primer he used, but a Federal 209A would be the hottest, and I would use new primer carriers for each shot.

Take note, this was 80 degree weather back in August.

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9682

[normanhow]

Thanks for the reply. I saw the report I think you are referring to. I believe they were using a disc elite. I am not sure of the difference between the original and the elite. I also emailed Knight. They said that they were testing the Blackhorn powder now, Wouldnt tell me if it would work in mine or not. Said they would make conclusions after testing. So far what I understand is that it is supposed to be used in a closed ignition system. Does that mean only break-open style or would the disk with bolt closing around it be considered closed?

[lefteye]

I am sold on BH 209 as well. I'm shooting 100 grains with a 250 grain Shockwave in a Triumph. One nice doe in the freezer tells me it works!

[tc scout]

Has anyone experienced hangfires with BH209?

  I have shot over 75 shots at the range in my TC Triumph with no problems during the summer and early fall.
  Componets: 90 grs BH209, crush rib sabot/210 gr Golddot, CCI 209 primer.
 Gun was clean and dry when loaded. 

  Nov. 15, opening day gun season, raining,35 degrees. Gun had been loaded about 3 hours and was carried to blind in a case, so was not subjected to rain drops. About 8am I  pulled the trigger on a nice 6 point- major hangfire- fortunately I did not move the point of aim and dropped the deer.

  I was shocked!, so much so I put the MZ away and got my contender out for the rest of the season. Need to do more shooting and testing on this problem before it is used again to hunt deer.
  Only explanation I can come up with is a bad primer, although it came from the same lot as what I had been using at the range.