Rechamber or Throat

[Woodchopper]

Hello,
       I want to have my 45-70 handi throated and have read where some of you are doing this yourselves.I called a gunsmith about doing this and he told me if I rechamber my 45-70 to 45-90 or 45-100 it is basically accomplishing the same thing.I have seen this gunsmith mentioned here before and everyone had good thing to say about him.So my questions are ,does it matter witch one I have done and what are the advantages or disadvantages if any of doing either one to my handi ?
                                                                                                                               Thanks,
                                                                                                                                          Woodchopper

[quickdtoo]

Throating doesn't change the chamber length, it changes the approach angle of the beginning of the lands in the rifling so it's a gradual taper instead of the lands just starting abruptly, it allows heavier bullets to be seated longer allowing more powder and lower pressures and likely improving accuracy. please see Throating the 45-70 in Accurizing section of the FAQs and Help sticky. Rechambering changes the length of the chamber itself so longer 45-XXX rounds can be loaded.

Tim

[Woodchopper]

Thanks Tim,
                I've read the throating the 45-70 before in the FAQ.You and a couple other people have done this yourselves.Is it really that easy to do?If so can I get all the info on how and what I need to do it from 4D?I also read that you take it to .240 .Is this correct and would it be the same for throating a 45-90?I want to be able to use any 45-70 handload I wish just like the in the ruger#1
                                                                                                                                                     Thanks Again,
                                                                                                                                                               Woodchopper

[quickdtoo]

You can load to Ruger cartridge overall length after doing the throating, but you need to choose the bullet you want to load and deepen the throat to suit, I'd check it first, some have been reported deep enough already, most aren't. As for th -90, depends on the reamer that's used to rechamber, it may include a throater, dunno, never done it, my 45-120 has a decent throat, but it doesn't really matter, since it has such awesome case capacity.

Tim

[ben.]

Hello: I have a throating reamer which I've used on 3 45/70 handis.
They are 3 years old and older. I guess I wanted to seat the bullets
out further. Anyway I bought one 2 weeks ago from walmart and
the bullets I had reloaded for the throated rifles chambered just fine.
It's either a 07 or 08 I forget. H&R may have chambered with a longer
throat. I screwed up my back again and am coming down with a cold.
I'm in no mood to check this out. The reamer cost $50 and it wasn't
hard to do. That was a few years ago. If I don't need to throat my
latest 45/70 which appears unlikely I'll sell it. I don't plan on buying any
more 45/70.

[Woodchopper]

Thanks guys:I am going to have to check and see if I need to do it at all.The gunsmith that told me to just rechamber to 45-90 or 45-100 is Wayne at oregunsmithing.I have heard you guys talk about him numerous times and would like to have him do the work.I like the idea of having a versatile gun.The bullets I have in mind are beartooth bullets 525gr. ''pile-driver'' and  Jae-bok youngs big 550 gr. ''crater''.Would I even have to worry about this at all with my choice of these cast bullets?
                                                                                                                                      Thanks Again,
                                                                                                                                                          Woodchopper

[quickdtoo]

I shoot the 525gr Piledrivers and 555gr Saeco #20 in my 45-120 BC, but they were too long seated to the crimp groove in any of my three 45-70s before throating them, the Crater lites will work in an H&R, but dunno about the 550gr Crater, you'll have to let us know!! Still have the 720gr Ranger Ricks to shoot too!!

Tim

http://www.competitor-pistol.com/jb%20bullets.html

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,130161.msg1098479258.html#msg1098479258

[ben.]

Hello:  I load 6 different cast bullets with BP and only one is seated on the crimp grove.
I don't think it matters much on a SINGLE SHOT. I use a taper crimp die for my 45/70
mainly to remove the flare.  My 38/55 and 444 I use a sizing die. ( I'M CAREFUL NOT 
TO OVER DO IT WITH either DIE) I don't have taper crimp dies for these calibers.
20 years ago I was shooting marlin lever and siameese mauser in 45/70 with smokeless
powder. I must have been seating cast on the crimp grove and crimping.. My cast bullets
are few thousands over size. I get no blow by. The point I'm trying to make is I beleave you
could seat a cast bullet by hand on a SINGLE SHOT. Of course seating on a crimp grove
and crimping is fine also. Just harder to do with different cast bullets. With BP I use wads
and a cookie. With smokeless I use dacron and unique powder.

[ben.]

Hello: I thought of rechambering one of my 45/70 to one of the longer cases
for BP loads, then I think of my poor shoulder. I sure like the looks of a 45/90
or 45/110 round. Shooting a 45/90 or 45/110 with a full load of BP with a 500 gr or
my 540 pp in my opinion wouldn't be a lot of fun. Shooting a 45/70 in longer
chamber would give quite a bullet jump. Be something weatherbee might do.
Of course you wouldn't have to fill the 45/90 or 45/110 case then a lot of
wads and cookies would be needed. If you didn't fill the case you would have
a 45/70.  I think I'll stick with 45/70. I keep telling myself this but why do I
keep looking on e-bay for dies and cases.
 

[quickdtoo]

Recoil management is easy with a little weight in the stock or an MRS, I've done both, the 16oz suppressor works a little better than 24+oz of dead weight, add a nice leather recoil pad like the Galco and wear a Past mag shoulder pad and you'll hardly know the big 120 went off....well, almost anyway!
 
In reality, the -90, -100, -110 and -120 can't do anything that the 45-70 can't do if you can load longer COLs with the big bullets, but the bigger cartridges do it at considerably less pressure, the 45-120 will push a 500gr cast bullet over 1800fps at 30kpsi, to do that in a 45-70, pressure will be at least 10kpsi higher. And if a person wants to load the bigger cartridges to 40kpsi in a modern rifle to equal levergun pressures, much higher velocities are achievable.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,139980.msg1098552295.html#msg1098552295

[ben.]

Good morning Tim:
       Yes' recoil can be lowered by muzzle breaks, special recoil pads and weighted stocks.
I've never done any of these and I have owned and shot full loads in most modern calibers.
From my experience on a shooting range as a shooter and range officer I wouldn't have a
muzzle break on a gun. Deadly down range and both sides. Years ago I used to shoot a
buddy's 460 weatherbee. (not often) That may be the only exception. Could taste the
fillings in my mouth.  Beautiful colored bruise on my shoulder.
        Those pictures of your loaded cases done me in. I think I'll have my buffalo barrel
rechambered for 45/90. I'm fortunate to live 10 miles from a gun smith school that
been around for 50 years. I know they do excelent work and are inexpensive. Just
slower than malasses.
        Am I wrong on thinking 45/70 dies and stuff would work on 45/90? Or would it
be better to get 45/90 dies?

[quickdtoo]

Mornin Ben!

I never mentioned brakes cuz I feel the same way about em, although I do have a couple H&R Ultracomps, the last range trip I removed the brake to accomodate other shooters, in past trips I learned it was harder on them than it was on me!! 

The only 45-70 die that I've used on the 45-120 is the Lee factory crimp die, I had to make a spacer out of thin wall tubing to make it work tho. I also use a Lee Loader body for starting bullets, works real good to align the bullet with no runout.

The shorter 45-90 may work well with 45-70 dies tho, I bought a Lyman 45-120 die set for $36 from Cabelas, but they no longer offer it. I'd certainly try the 45-70 dies to see how well they work.

Sounds like you have a perfect source for rechambers, but several members here have done their own to 90 and 120, so don't be afraid to tackle depending on cost, a reamer can be rented from 4D for about $35-$40 shipped, of course the school may be about the same price depending on reamer availability.

Tim

http://www.4-dproducts.com/display.php?group=Rifle+Calibers&PHPSESSID=2307e94a844e7124656aee5db5abb6b0

[ben.]

Hello:
       4D rental is $28 and $100 deposit. The school if they have a reamer is $45
if they don't have a reamer it's $50 more. Of course they don't have a reamer.
       I may give it a try. Shouldn't be much of a problem as you have 2 1/2 inches
for the reamer to ride in. I think I'll buy a reamer $50 of it I was going to spend anyway.
       They make a reamer for lead bullets ($110) and jacketed ($100) I don't
remember the name of the company. I went thru this reamer business 5 years
ago when I had 2 remingtons rechambered for 7.62 and 358 whelen. Both barrels
were short chambered for those calibers. Finally decided to let the school do it.
Sold the guns without firing them. Lost interest in bolt action guns. Handis are
addictive. After selling a bunch of guns this past year I still have 1 lever and 5 bolt
action guns left.

[quickdtoo]

The deposit is just there to protect Fred's investment and encourage people to return the reamer, I've rented a couple from him, the $100 never showed on my credit card, just the rental amount and shipping which he uses Priority mail. 

Tim