338-06 vs 35 Whelan vs 9.3x62

[efremtags]

The x74 is a different beast than a x62.

The x74 is almost the equivalent of a 375HH. It is not legal for DG use in most of Africa (falls below 375 lmiit)

I believe everyone findings on their velocity claims. I thought it funny that G&A posted extensive article with velocity falling low 2300FPS with 286gr loads with similar rifles as everyone is posting. The stuff they post is usually accurate.

[Drilling Man]

The x74 is a different beast than a x62.

The x74 is almost the equivalent of a 375HH. It is not legal for DG use in most of Africa (falls below 375 lmiit)

I believe everyone findings on their velocity claims. I thought it funny that G&A posted extensive article with velocity falling low 2300FPS with 286gr loads with similar rifles as everyone is posting. The stuff they post is usually accurate.

  I have more than one 9.3x74R, and i've shot more than a thousand rounds of 74R's, many over a chronograph...  They push the same 286 grain bullet as the 9.3x62 at about the same velocity...  There's no magic here, the 62 is normally loaded to higher pressures for bolt guns...  The 74R is "normally" kept to 2300 to 2350 because most doubles are regulated for that velocity, and there's a LOT of old 74R guns floating around...

  As for the "375" rule...  It all depends on where you hunt and who your hunting with...  Go read what's going on...  It's happening all the time...  I'll cut/paste one of many post i read a couple days ago, to here...

  DM


And i quote:  I own a 9,3x74R double rifle, a 450/400 3 1/4" double rifle and a 450 No2 double rifle.

I have taken quite a bit of game with them.

I have taken deer and wild pigs with all 3.

Black bear with the 9,3 and the 400.

Two Caribou with the 400.

Two eland and a wildebest with the 450.

Twenty four zebra with the 9,3, one with the 400.

Several smaller African game with the 9,3, including @14 Impala.


Three cape buff with the 450, one with the 400 [my wife took one with the 400 as well] and one with the 9,3.

Five elephant with the 450, one with the 400, and one with the 9,3.

A lion with the 400.

So my following assesment is not biased toward any one calibre, but my observations and feelings after using all three.

My 9,3x74R loads consist of 286gr Softs [Woodleigh and Nosler in Africa] and 286 Woodleigh Solids at @ 2225fps.

The 9,3 is an excellent killer. My longest mshot was a kudu at a little over 300 yards.
My closest a cow elephant at 5 yards.
My cape buff was killed with one shot, Woodleigh Soft, frontal chest at @60 yards. He was down and dead in 40 yards. He is the biggest in body and horn that I have taken.

I do consider the 9,3 [amd the 375 as well] to be on the light side for buff and elephant.

Well handled it will get the job done.

The only hunt I would not want to use it on is hunting bull elephants for ivory, where it might be necessary to take a body shot.

For head shots no problem.

The 450/400.

I consider the 450/400 the best choice in a big bore double for the modern sport hunter.

Mine is now scoped with a S&B 1.25-4 with the Flash dot Reticle. My 400 gr bullets, Woodleigh Softs and solids, go @2200fps.

The 400 has quite a bit less recoil that doubles in the 470 class, they are very plesant to shoot.

My results on all game shot, including bull elephant, cape buff, and lion were excellent.

A 9,3 double, and a 450/400 double, both scoped would make an EXCELLENT pair of rifles for Africa where DG will be taken.

The 450 to 475 class of rifles.

There is no doubt these guns are a bigger hammer than a 450/400, 500/416.

If you can shoot a 450 to 475 like a 22LR, then they are a great choice.

My 450 No2 is my favorite rifle of all time.

On my first Safari my PH called it the Hammer of Thor.

On my all of my 3 Safaris I took the 9,3 and the 450.

On my last Safari my wife "took" the 400 and I used to to take a cape buff, bull elephant and lion, as I wanted to have taken buff and elephant with all 3, and with the scope it was a natural for lion. I used the iron sights for the buff and elephant.

The 450/400 is a big step up from a 9,3 or a 375 IMHO.

I am a big fan of British big bore doubles, however, not long ago I shot the new Heym 450/400 3".

I think it is the BEST choice in a new made double for the modern sport hunter. I would have mine scoped with a Swarovski or S&B [one of the the straight tubed objective models with illuminated reticle] in claw mounts.

IF you can handle a 450, 475 class of double like a 22LR, and plan to shoot a LOT of elephants, then the bigger double would be a better choice.

For most Safari hunters the 450/400 would be a better choice. Especially scoped.

ANYTHING I could do with a scoped 375 H&H bolt rifle I can do better [IMHO] with a 9,3x94R scoped double.

I feel much more comfortable in DG country with the 9,3 double vs. the 375 bolt rifle.

[Sweetwater]

Can your Chevy outrun his Ford? That's what most of this sounds like. My little 8mm Mauser Persian Carbine puts down Elk at over 250Yards - it cares not how big and only I care about how far as I tend to keep my shots in close -  it does the job. My last Elk fell to a 184gr cast from straight WW bullet out of my 32WinSPCL at well over 100 yards. Doesn't make it better or worse, makes it different. Most of my hunting it doesn't matter if I use the 257Roberts, the 6.5 Swede, the 30-06, the 32WinSPCL, the 8mm Mauser, the 356Win, or the Old 1886 Win 40-82. What I hunt is going in the freezer. I do change my tactics a bit, but it's not a matter of taking the better rifle. Heck, I shot more Antelope in Wyoming the 18 years I lived there with my 41Mag Blackhawk than all the other guns combined. Dead is dead - can you make it happen. That's about it. Do you really understand the capability of your chosen weapon, have you ever reached its limits? Have you ever reached your limits with it? My Grandfather used that 32WinSPCL for 22 years before I was even born. Always on whitetails back in Maine and an occasional black bear that wandered into the farmyard. He would have said that was way too light to use on an Elk, and then turn around and butcher a hog with a 38-40 out of an old '73Win. Facts are facts and that Elk went into the freezer just like the ones the 8mm put there.

Pick your weapon and your caliber - then shoot it, over and over. Find out what you can do with it. You may surprise yourself. Sometimes when you shoot something enough, you find you really do like it, or that you really don't. Sometimes I wish I didn't like that little Persian Carbine so much. It's the one I use the most; certainly the one I use if I'm not sure what I'm going to be getting into. It's the one I trust. Pretty much "my best girl".

It really doesn't matter what the 'other guy thinks'. He's not paying the bills. You are. It's a choice and it's your choice. Make it. None of the calibers mentioned in the original post are poor choices for what was expected of it. Choose....and shoot....have fun.

Regards,
Sweetwater

[DanP]

All this talk about the "KO" when few apparently knows what it really means - I am unsure about the posters here but they do bring it up.  "KO" is just one more urban legend, misquoted from the source then used to prove an unprovable point....

John Taylor, ivory hunter and grand poacher, coined the "KO" term years ago and others have grabbed it as the basis for defining stopping and killing power - chiefly because it favors big heavy bullets.   But what Taylor actually said about "KO" will cause dismay among many of those armchair experts who so freely talk about it today.  Here area a few quotes from Taylor's work:

"I do not pretend that they [TKOs] represent "killing power"; but they do give an excellent basis from which any two rifles may be compared from the point of view of the actual knock-down blow, or punch, inflicted by the bullet on massive, heavy-boned animals such as elephant, rhino and buffalo". (African Rifles and Cartridges, pg. xii)   

Not quite what most folks think he said, is it?  Trying to make such a formula fit something for which it was never designed (body shots into medium game with expanding bullets) is a futile exercise, and seems to be an attempt to add credibility to the pet opinions of hunters who want to ride "piggyback" on the work of a famous hunter/author.  Even more interesting, Taylor stipulated that kinetic energy probably gives a surer indication of killing power when expanding bullets on soft-skinned game are concerned.  I've hunted and killed brownies, and they are NOT thick-skinned game.


.

Actually, that quote is about as good as it gets in terms of ANY index.  There's nothing that will predict performance given variations in placement, bullet construction, etc... ideas like sectional density have sound reasons for measuring what they do -- but it isn't enough given the deformation bullets experience shortly after beginning penetration (sectional density changes radically) -- it works best for solids that deform only a little.

That doesn't make it worthless to think about the pros and cons of different factors: sectional density, momentum, energy, TKO, etc...  In the end, it was enough when the animal was mercifully dead, and for some species, when the animal did not succeed in pressing an attack.

Dan

[rickt300]

I agonized over the 338-06 and 35 Whelen question for a long time and came up with the 35 Whelen for my Mauser.  I felt the lower end abilities were better served with the 200 grain bullets available for the 35 caliber such as the 200 grain RNCL at 2500 fps for deer and feral hogs and that any of the 250 grain bullets at 2500-2600 fps would serve me admirably on any Elk or Moose I would shoot. The 338 bore diameter is sorely lacking in bullets designed for lower velocities. I also wanted the extra bore diameter anyway. Brown Bear aren't even part of the question as I'll never hunt them and if I did I would most likely do it with a 375 H&H.