Author Topic: need opinions- 357mag, 45acp, or 44mag? (Read 3186 times)

cheezehead · « **on:** March 11, 2008, 07:31:40 PM »

i'm looking for a lightweight handgun to carry while bow hunting. we have a lot of black bear in our area, and i've already been stuck in my tree for a while, when a bear wouldn't leave the acorns i was hunting over. i know that a 44mag is popular for bear, but i have a long way to walk to get to my hunting area, and i don't think i'm as likely to bring my pistol if it's too heavy. i'm not partial to a semi-auto or a revolver. i would also like to use the gun for hd. i'm open to any ideas. thanks!

.308 Win. · « **Reply #1 on:** March 11, 2008, 08:06:19 PM »

Ruger's got a new 4" .44 Mag. they're suggesting could be used for carry. Might be worth looking into. I like .357's myself but for bears, obviously the .44 is better. It's a new style of Redhawk Ruger is offering for this year.

corbanzo · « **Reply #2 on:** March 11, 2008, 08:19:11 PM »

You can look at the taurus or S&W titanium lines of revolvers in .44 mag. Either the .357 or the .45auto can be effective for black bears, just make sure they are loaded to the hilt with hardcasts.

The gun you would need in .357 or .45auto for handling bear loads isn't going to be a lightweight compact gun in the first place.

I have a taurus .44mag ultralite in .44mag with a 4" barrel that weighs 28oz, it's the cats meow when it comes to packing.

Ak.Hiker · « **Reply #3 on:** March 11, 2008, 08:32:49 PM »

I have a Ruger SP 101 in 357 Magnum with the 3 1/16 inch barrel. It weighs 27 ounces and is light enough not to be noticed on the hip but solid enough to be loaded with any sane load you can find. The Buffalo Bore 180 cast load can run between 1200 and 1300 out of the little Ruger. The 180 cast in the 357 will out penetrate the 230 FMJ loads out of the 45 ACP. Out of the two I would pick the 357 Magnum for black bear protection. Just stay away from bullets designed for self defense. In a semi auto the Glock 29 in 10mm loaded with a good 200 grain bullet would be a good choice as a back up weapon as well.

Old Griz · « **Reply #4 on:** March 11, 2008, 09:57:51 PM »

The .45 ACP was designed to kill one thing — people. That's was it was intended for, and does the best job on. The .357 is a bit more versatile especially with the heavier loads if using it for bear. However, if you are really concerned about bears, then the few extra ounces of a .41, .44, or .45 Colt really shouldn't bother you. People in an emergency situation seldom say, "Gee, my life's in danger. I wish I brought a smaller gun."

Savage · « **Reply #5 on:** March 12, 2008, 02:03:50 AM »

Quote from: Old Griz on March 11, 2008, 09:57:51 PM

The .45 ACP was designed to kill one thing — people. That's was it was intended for, and does the best job on. The .357 is a bit more versatile especially with the heavier loads if using it for bear. However, if you are really concerned about bears, then the few extra ounces of a .41, .44, or .45 Colt really shouldn't bother you. People in an emergency situation seldom say, "Gee, my life's in danger. I wish I brought a smaller gun."

AMEN!
A woods gun and a home defense gun are two different things. I'd select an adequate tool for the job, and live with the extra weight/bulk, that might be involved.
Savage

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #6 on:** March 12, 2008, 02:36:03 AM »

get a can of bear spray !

Davemuzz · « **Reply #7 on:** March 12, 2008, 02:57:52 AM »

This is what I carry when I bow hunt, coyote hunt, fox hunt....er...just about anything hunt. It's a 7 shot Airlite 357 that weighs 18 oz unloaded. I shoot 180 grain full loads out of it all the time and the recoil isn't anywhere near the stoutness of my stainless steel 44 mag revolvers. BTW, I hardly know it's on my belt even after an all day carry.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #8 on:** March 12, 2008, 03:50:18 AM »

for a couple years i carried a 396 which is the same gun in a 5 shot 44 special. Like you say. its feather light and you can stick it in your jacket pocket and not know its there. Smith is making another run of them right now. I shot many many keith level loads out of mine that pushed a 250 to about 1150 and it was a handfull at that level but a guy carrys it alot more then you shoot it. I couldnt imagine a better woods bumming gun. I had to get rid of the cheesy fiber optic front and v notch rear though. I found them about impossible to shoot with any kind of accuracy. A quick call to smith will get you standard L frame sights that are much better at least in my opinion.

Quote from: Davemuzz on March 12, 2008, 02:57:52 AM

This is what I carry when I bow hunt, coyote hunt, fox hunt....er...just about anything hunt. It's a 7 shot Airlite 357 that weighs 18 oz unloaded. I shoot 180 grain full loads out of it all the time and the recoil isn't anywhere near the stoutness of my stainless steel 44 mag revolvers. BTW, I hardly know it's on my belt even after an all day carry.

cheezehead · « **Reply #9 on:** March 12, 2008, 04:57:44 AM »

ok, the 45acp is out, the 357 and the 44mag are in. tough decision. i have dies, brass, and bullet molds for both calibers, so ammo cost isn't a real big issue. i think that i would be more inclined to practice with my 22lr, and the 357/38special, because they are a little cheaper, and less recoil. i had looked at the sp101, and the local dealer has a taurus 44mag tracker. what other guns would you recomend, under $500? what do you think of the judge for my use?

Ak.Hiker · « **Reply #10 on:** March 12, 2008, 08:02:06 AM »

If you do not mind a little extra weight it is hard to beat the Ruger Blackhawk and Super Blackhawk with the 4 5/8 inch barrel. The blued 45 Colt is the lightest at 36 oz. Even at 36 oz. the gun can handle the hot hunting type loads that you could use for black bear. A 335 grain bullet at 1050 will offer some awesome penetration. I carried the 41 Magnum version for years with 250 cast loads and now have both the 45 Colt and 44 Magnum. Keep in mind the SP 101 is a much smaller gun and in my opinion makes a pretty good save your bacon gun, but for the extra power and prices under 500 dollars the Blackhawks are good options.

Mikey · « **Reply #11 on:** March 12, 2008, 08:08:20 AM »

Cheese - ya know, that Airlite 357 looks pretty good and if that's an L-frame it will handle all ranges of 38 and 357 ammo you can brew for it. It appears to be a nice combo for home and field and with the range of reloading you have it can be loaded light or heavy. 18 oz unloaded isn't really featherweight when you have it stuffed with 7 180 grainers that almost another 3 oz, so there is adequate weight to handle even heavy loads with control and accuracy.

The Airlite looks to wear about a 3" bbl. My M28 carries a 3.5" bbl and I had long ago gone to the use of heavy cast semi-wadcutters for penetration. Under full loading they push more than snap and are fairly easy to shoot.

You can also look to the Ruger Blackhawk with a 4/58" bbl for the field. Believe it or not, although they are a chunk of steel, they have a balance to their heft that makes them pretty comfortable to carry about. They really never wear out, are inexpensive enough so you might even consider the 'pre-owned' market, and may leave you with enough left over for a nice pre-owned home piece user friendly to others in the home. Just a thought. Mikey.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #12 on:** March 12, 2008, 08:53:53 AM »

Mikey,
The Airlite 357 is an L-frame. That's one of the reasons I bot it. Those 5 shot 38+p j-frame's are great for cc, but for all around cc and field, this one covers both. But this gun is on the higher end of the price line. New your lookin at $700 or better and I havn't seen any used.

A friend of mine at my gun club has the Judge with the shorter barrel (3.5" I think?). I've handled this gun and I have to say that if I didn't have my Smith, I would probably own the Judge with the shorter barrel. (I think they make one with a 6" barrel also). The Judge is light weight (I don't know the specifics of it) but it fit into my belt holster "almost" as snug as my Smith. It was light and easy to handle. On the plus side it can fire 45 colt, 410 shotgun or buckshot, and 410 slug. That's a pretty wide range of options. And I believe it's around $400 for the gun. (I think that's the right number).

Dave

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #13 on:** March 13, 2008, 03:44:34 AM »

a USED mod. 66 , 65 , 13 or a used Colt all with a 3 inch or shorter bbl , if ya don't like the SP-101

warrior1 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 14, 2008, 10:45:27 AM »

i saw one that almost fits the bill it was a cimarron birdshead grip 3 or 3 1/2" barrel
in 45 colt. 5 shot. dan

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #15 on:** March 14, 2008, 05:33:19 PM »

Ruger security six 4" barrel .357 would do nicely and not break the bank either.

cheezehead · « **Reply #16 on:** March 16, 2008, 05:54:47 PM »

well, i went in a totally different direction. i talked to a couple of bear hunters that i work with, and told them what i was looking at. they both told be a 357mag would be plenty. then, on sat, i went to gander mountain. i was really only going to check out different models, but i found a deal that i couldn't pass up. i bought a sigma in 40s&w. my brother was with me, and we ran into a guy that he knows bear hunts. we talked to him about it, and he thought with the 180gr fmj or a hardcast lead 200gr bullet would be fine for my needs. i really liked the feel of the sigma, and with the rebate, $280, including 2 extra clips, was just too good a deal to pass up. i liked the idea of the trigger, same as a double action revolver. this should do the trick for me. thanks for all the advice. maybe i'll be a little under gunned, but it's light enough that i'll carry it more often. and with 14rnd clips, i may just scare them away:)

Davemuzz · « **Reply #17 on:** March 16, 2008, 11:33:43 PM »

Well,,,,,if you want advice on your next purchase.....you can always come here! Advice on what kind of gun to buy and why isn't hard to come by. Just throw out the question and you get 4,000 answers in a matter of 24 hours! But that's a good thing!

Dave

Mikey · « **Reply #18 on:** March 17, 2008, 01:50:59 AM »

Uh Cheese, lemme get this one straight........you were askin' about lightweight magnum caliber revolvers for protection against bear while you're out bowhuntin' an ya let someone talk ya into a 40 short and weak?

Not even a 10mm, but a 40??? Right, and this guy bear hunts right??? Teddy bears?

Just how dang successful has he been with a 40 while bear huntin' or should I, or possibly dare I ask how many bear he has successfully shot and killed with the 40 caliber and/or, better yet, how many he let run off wounded. Nothing more fun to deal with than wounded bear, or wounded hog... but wait, you can always let your brother's buddy go into the brush to finish him off face to face with that 40 short and weak.

And here all the time I though you had a serious question. Musta been the exhaust leak in your harley................... Mikey.

Old Griz · « **Reply #19 on:** March 17, 2008, 06:07:49 PM »

Maybe after shooting it 14 times, the bear will be irritated enough to leave??? Maybe with the spare magazine . . . . ?

corbanzo · « **Reply #20 on:** March 17, 2008, 10:09:40 PM »

If he has small black bears in the area, I could see some 200grn+ hardcast loads doing not bad. Hopefully doesn't run into anything of any size...

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #21 on:** March 18, 2008, 01:21:14 AM »

Cheese , its better to have a 40 on ya than a cannon in the truck !
once read an article about why the 30 M2 carbine with a night scope was such a hit in Korea , the officer that had the project said sure most can take a hit from a carbine but not many could take 15 to 30 !
As far as a wounded bear , yes to be avoided . BUT survive first !
that said the only draw back might be a CONTACT shot !
just realize that an auto needs room to move ! think that's called tactics or such .

petemi · « **Reply #22 on:** March 18, 2008, 01:49:37 AM »

We don't go "out back" on my place during bear months without being armed. I carry my .357 6.5 inch Blackhawk in a crossdraw holster. It is comfortable and out of the way. I like the .357 for the variety of loads available and the fact I can plink and hunt smaller game with .38 specials.

kennisondan · « **Reply #23 on:** March 19, 2008, 04:09:29 PM »

C-Head : I think the choice is more oriented to home defense and running off a bear from under your tree than staving off an all out attack, right ? And we are talking only black bears, hopefully small ones... I would have thought the charter arms 44 special would have been a great choice for both, but ... hey, if you decide that once you have the HDefense covered and want something more persuasive for outdoors furry defense stuff...use this site again or the old responses here.. you were right about one thing, you need to have it with you when you need it..
if I was not focused on the bear defense but more bear scaring and possibly killing one that is not trying to kill me but had me treed, I could see it...
do not fret, I feel that you subconsciously know that you need a home defense gun now.. and a woods bumming gun later this year... and nobody wants just one... going more specific use focused will give you the excuse of : I am a little uncofortable with using this for real bear protection, I need a bear protection gun now, that is not a cross breed HD gun, too...
I know what you are up to cheesehead...you must be married and trickin' the old lady... LOL
enjoy your weapon it will be a fun ride... and looks good in your boot on a motorcycle.
dk

cheezehead · « **Reply #24 on:** March 20, 2008, 05:13:59 AM »

kennisondan, thanks for the reply. that is exactly what i am trying to accomplish. most of the black bears that i have run across are small, 100 to 250#. last yr, a fellow bow hunter, carrying a 40cal, shot once into the ground, and the sow and cubs cleared out of the area. for now, on limited funds, and after doing some research, i thought the 40 would meet my basic needs. i still like the ruger sp101, and if i can find a used one in the future, i'll snap it up. the bear hunters that i talked to all use ruger 44mag redhawks. but giving my use, they thought i would be "ok". thanks for the advice, and i plan on sticking around here. lot's of good info.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #25 on:** March 20, 2008, 05:38:16 AM »

Put 14 rounds in that Sigma and a spare mag with another 14 and you're packing the weight of a .44 mag but still don't have anything like the horsepower.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #26 on:** March 20, 2008, 06:19:33 AM »

The energy from 14-40's total more energy than 6 from a 44 !
multi hits ain't that how a shot gun works ?

Davemuzz · « **Reply #27 on:** March 20, 2008, 07:37:52 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on March 20, 2008, 06:19:33 AM

The energy from 14-40's total more energy than 6 from a 44 !
multi hits ain't that how a shot gun works ?

Ummmmm.....I'm thinkin no.

Dave

countryrebel · « **Reply #28 on:** March 20, 2008, 07:08:18 PM »

Talking to a lot of gun shop owner's here in Idaho they say most bow hunters are buying glock 10mm's in the compact G29. I am sure that I have heard many people say that black bear are no harder to kill than deer. I do not know for sure, it's just what I have heard.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #29 on:** March 21, 2008, 01:33:02 AM »

Ok Dave throw in the extra mag.