Range Report 223 and 22-250

[rezz]

Well, after several reloadings and range sessions I have found some good loads for my Handi 223 and 22-250

For the 223, 26 grains of Varget is good for both 40 and 50 grain Vmax bullets:



The shooter seems to have flinched and missed one time but the group will still get the job done.

For the 22-250, 35.5 grains of Varget and 50 grain Vmax looks good:



and 36.5 grains of Varget and 55 grain Vmaxs works:



I haven't shot the 25-06 yet but will report after the session.

I have a problem with the 22-250 and need some help.
It is apparently a head space issue and the Handi does want to latch with some the reloads. Even the once fired brass that hasn't been resized does the same.
There is a visible gap at the breech when latched shut. I have tried adjusting my Lee FL die down, up, and every other which way but cannot seem to get rid of all the gap though I have seen some reductions. What can I do to push the shoulder back a little more if my die will not adjust it out?

[DDelle338]

rezz,
 Could you re-state what the problem is?

I have a problem with the 22-250 and need some help.
It is apparently a head space issue and the Handi does want to latch with some the reloads. Even the once fired brass that hasn't been resized does the same.
There is a visible gap at the breech when latched shut. I have tried adjusting my Lee FL die down, up, and every other which way but cannot seem to get rid of all the gap though I have seen some reductions. What can I do to push the shoulder back a little more if my die will not adjust it out?

  Where is the "gap"? Is the gap between the barrel and the action (case hitting the breach face not allowing the action to close properly)? Or is the case sliding to far into the Chamber (to much head space)?    I think you mean that the case is hitting, in which case you may need to find out wheather it's the length to the shoulder causing the problem or the case diameter. Maybe the die is slightly on the large size. Maybe you have a tight chamber. Or combination of both. You may need a small base die. Or you may just need to trim the brass, check the length. Try some fired cases in the gun, find one that will allow the action to close and one that won't and compare them.

[PartsMan]

I have had good luck with varget in my 223 also.

Had the same problem with my 7mm-08 recently.
Adjusting my die helped though.
Are you using a Lee shell holder?
It is possible, but not recommended, to hone the face of the shell holder or die where they meet.
That will bump the shoulder back a little more.
It will also RUIN the part you hone if you go to far or it doesn't work.

I would keep measuring against a new round that will fit until I found the difference first.

[rezz]

The gap is between the barrel and the action. Even once fired cases that haven't been resized at all do this. Some are bad enough that the barrel is difficult to get latched.
New, factory rounds do not have this problem and the barrel latches fine with no visible gap at the breech. So yes, it is a length problem of some kind.

I have tried adjusting the Lee FL die down and this helps reduce the gap some and the barrel latches better but there is still a slight gap that can be seen when looking at the action from the side. I have removed the expander stem in case it was dragging and pulling the case longer, still get the gap.

The length of unfired factory rounds is 1.902-6 and I trim mine to the same and still get the gap. So, I figure the length problem must be at the shoulder.

What kind of die is the 'small base' you are referring to?
I don't know how to get a real accurate measurement to the shoulder to compare the different cases but that would seem to be where the problem lies.

Partsman, yes it is a Lee shell holder, Lee classic press, and Lee FL die.
Did you have a visible gap at the breech like I am getting?

[rezz]

You the Man, Partsman!
I had an extra #2 shellholder so got out a flat whetstone and flat diamond sharpener and set to honing.
That eliminated the gap. It took less than an hour and I honed, checked, and honed until the gap disappeared.
So, either the shellholder or die was off a little I guess and it prevented the shoulder from being set back enough.
Thank you. You have saved me from more hours of flustration trying to figure this puzzle out.

The bad news: Looks like this barrel will require FL resizing every time since even once fired factory cases are not chambering right.
The Good News: I don't care. This 22-250 shoots sweet!
Thank you too DDelle. Your info helped too.

I have had good luck with varget in my 223 also.

Had the same problem with my 7mm-08 recently.
Adjusting my die helped though.
Are you using a Lee shell holder?
It is possible, but not recommended, to hone the face of the shell holder or die where they meet.
That will bump the shoulder back a little more.
It will also RUIN the part you hone if you go to far or it doesn't work.

I would keep measuring against a new round that will fit until I found the difference first.

[DDelle338]

  Glad to hear that it is working out for you.
  Keep em tight. 

[rezz]

Honing the shellholder helped reduce the gap between breech face and barrel but didn't eliminate it altogether.
Full length resizing with the Lee Classic press didn't fix the problem either until I hit on a technique that worked.
It seems the trick is to give the press a little pop for the last 1/4" of the handle stroke. This 'pop' apparently pushes the shoulder back enough to ensure complete lockup with the Handi and no gap at all.  I don't know why this is necessary, but at least it works. The bad news is that it looks like this 22-250 will require FL resizing every time unless I can figure out how to bump the shoulder back another way.
I have been using a Lee Hand Press for depriming and neck sizing and this is not doing enough with the shoulder to ensure a good case to chamber fit. Will now try neck sizing with the Lee Classic and FL die and see how that does.

I also made it to the range yesterday and got some very good results with the 22-250 and Vmax 50s with 35.5 gr Varget. This load shot well the last trip and after a rough measure of the Handi's throat at 2.51" I loaded these same rounds longer at 2.40"

Here are the results at 100 yards:



The bottom group was shot first and I pulled the 3rd shot high. I adjusted the scope higher after this group.
No pull on the top group and it is less than an inch, .772 to be exact, off a less than perfect rest.

[Lloyd Smale]

did you check to insure that your sholder actually does need to be set back? if it doesnt your going to hurt your brass life. What id try is sizing them in a small base die as it may be your chamber thats on the tight side not a headspace problem. could be that you could size them down once with a small base die and then after that neck size them.

[John4me05]

I load Vmax for my .223 Handi and here is some of my results
Here is a 100yd target with a 40gr Vmax over 26.5gr of Varget


Dont have a image of it but i have a almost identicle target grouping for 50gr Vmax over 25.5 Varget

[John4me05]

And here is a 45gr Hornet tip over 18.5gr of RL7

[Catfish]

I think you better send your gun back. You should never have a visible gap between the barrel and the receiver. If your cases are to long the action should not close. At least have someone that knows more about guns than you do to look at it, cause from what you said I wouldn`t be shooting it.

[rezz]

New brass chambers fine, it is the fired brass that has the problem with chambering.
Once fired is a little tight but the second firing causes the chambering to become worse.

[rezz]

Nice, John.
Thanks for the info.

[John4me05]

Not too sure if this will help you out but try it anyway for my curiosity... Smoke a case with a candle (unloaded case of course)... Put a bullet in it if you want to but the soot from the candle should turn the case all black... Hold the case around the base with needle nose pliers... Insert it in the chamber and lock it up... Then gently remove it trying not to smudge it... This can show you where contact is being made and the differences in coloration can show you if 1 spot is receiving too much pressure... It could be your chamber was opened too much in a particular spot allowing too much case expansion in that certain spot... Have you guaged the entire length of the case seeing if there is any variation in the diameter....

[John4me05]

I also have trouble sometimes in my .223 with some cases not wanting to load with slight finger pressure... But it hasnt gotten as bad as what yours is described as...

[rezz]

Ok, thanks. I am going to try different brass too.
I've been using Remington for reloads but also have some Hornady.
Hopefully it won't 'grow' as much.

[gooser]

New brass chambers fine, it is the fired brass that has the problem with chambering.
Once fired is a little tight but the second firing causes the chambering to become worse.

Rezz, just a thought, but you say it loads even harder on the second reloading.......one possibility is that your chamber is somewhat out of round. I think John4me05 has the idea. Also you could check a fired round with calipers or a micrometer to check the concentricity  of the roundness,basically checking to see if it is egg shaped.
 If its a little tough to chamber on the first reloading,lets say because there is an expansion point somewhere one the case,then when you reload and chamber it again and shoot causing yet another expansion point,because the odds of the cartridge lining up exactly as the first time,isn't very good, making the second reload to chamber even harder than the first.
 I would check the chamber dimensions carefully.
 Just a thought.
 gooser

[PartsMan]

You the Man, Partsman!
I had an extra #2 shellholder so got out a flat whetstone and flat diamond sharpener and set to honing.
That eliminated the gap. It took less than an hour and I honed, checked, and honed until the gap disappeared.
So, either the shellholder or die was off a little I guess and it prevented the shoulder from being set back enough.
Thank you. You have saved me from more hours of flustration trying to figure this puzzle out.

The bad news: Looks like this barrel will require FL resizing every time since even once fired factory cases are not chambering right.
The Good News: I don't care. This 22-250 shoots sweet!
Thank you too DDelle. Your info helped too.

I have had good luck with varget in my 223 also.

Had the same problem with my 7mm-08 recently.
Adjusting my die helped though.
Are you using a Lee shell holder?
It is possible, but not recommended, to hone the face of the shell holder or die where they meet.
That will bump the shoulder back a little more.
It will also RUIN the part you hone if you go to far or it doesn't work.

I would keep measuring against a new round that will fit until I found the difference first.

Glad I could help.
These single shots are more of an adventure to tune than a bolt bun.

[DDelle338]

Remember to check the Overall case length also. I have a very tight chamber and some factory brass I've found is pretty long when new. Once it's fired and loaded, it grows past the length of my chamber. This causes the bullet to be crimped into the case by the force of the neck getting shoved into the chamber. (BAD!) I have to trim all my brass to the min. overall length.

[rezz]

Thanks DDelle
I'll keep an eye on the length too.
My small base die arrived today so I'll be trying that to see how it works.
Maybe it will cure the problem.

[John4me05]

Any updates... Also... How does the cases come out (extractor/ejector)... If its ejector stop it from comming out and see how hard it is to pull out... Also rechamber a just fired round and see if its hard to close... Could possibly be your die is bulging in a spot or maybe even your bullet choice's ogive isnt compatable with your gun...

[rezz]

Sorry for being so long to update but I have been busy with other things like W.O.R.K.

I got the small base die and tried it and it eliminates the chambering problem completely.
After the first shot with the brass sized with this die they still chamber ok so I have neck sized them for another round. I was worried about wearing out the brass by having to SB resize every time but right now it appears that neck sizing will be fine for at least one time after the small base sizing.

I also got the Forester Neck and Shoulder die. Haven't done much with it but experiment but it may do the trick if I can get it adjusted right.
Some of the brass I tried with it seemed to have the shoulders bumped back too much and they went into the chamber too far. That caused them to be a b.........ugger to get out because the extractor was stuck. It seemed like they were in just far enough to cause them to get jammed too tight. I'll try a few more until the adjustment is right.

So far, the barrel is still shooting good with the same loads as I reported earlier. The small base resizing does seem to cause a drop off in accuracy but not terribly bad. I probably need to adjust the loads for a smaller case capacity. Not sure how much smaller this die makes the case but there is enough of a change to notice a drop off in accuracy.

Will report back after I get more shooting done.

[John4me05]

From my understanding (what i have always been told) in theory without expanding the whole case your creating slightly higher pressures whitch is messing with the harmonics of the barrels oscilation... Drop it down 1 or 2 10ths and try a couple...