Author Topic: Would You Shoot A Cougar With A .223 Handi? (Read 2929 times)

jdwolf · « **on:** March 15, 2008, 03:00:04 PM »

If you were coyote hunting with a .223 Handi and called in a Cougar would you shoot him? Is the .223 powerful enough to put the big cat down?

McLernon · « **Reply #1 on:** March 15, 2008, 03:09:43 PM »

It could kill him but it might just annoy him............................and you wouldn't want to do that. A cougar is a sizable animal and the 223 is too light IMHO.

Mc

jdwolf · « **Reply #2 on:** March 15, 2008, 03:22:34 PM »

Quote from: McLernon on March 15, 2008, 03:09:43 PM

It could kill him but it might just annoy him............................and you wouldn't want to do that. A cougar is a sizable animal and the 223 is too light IMHO.

Mc

What Handi caliber would you suggest for a Cougar?

Davemuzz · « **Reply #3 on:** March 15, 2008, 03:44:28 PM »

I've never seen a live cougar in the wild. Never hunted one. don't know if there are state's where you can hunt 'em. But I do know they are large cat's. I wouldn't go at 'em with less than a 44 mag handgun....and as for a rifle, I suppose a 30 caliber in anything would suffice....but I would be more comfortable with my 45-70.

Dave

6Shooter · « **Reply #4 on:** March 15, 2008, 03:55:29 PM »

Your handi-rifle looks exactly like mine! Even looks like the same scope and strap! I used to have a table just like that one too!
Are you my alien twin? Now to respond to your question as I look over my shoulder.... I wonder, are you talking about hunting the cats or shooting one in defence? If your handi is like mine, it shoots the 40 to 45gr. bullets the best with it's slower twist so I'd say no to hunting cats with it. They're big game. I read somewhere once that the .223 is only good for 19lb game at 200yards which is not my experience shooting coyotes at that and beyond with yote dropping results.
My suggestions would be 30.06 because I'm old fashioned and I believe it's the best round going in spite of all the super magnums out there today. I also suggest the .308, the 7mm.08 which is a good, lower recoil round good enough for whitetail, .30/30, 45/70 if your not too recoil sensitive like I am!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #5 on:** March 15, 2008, 04:09:02 PM »

I know of two cat kills personally, both were toms over 100lbs, one each with a 270Winchester w/130gr Federal Powershoks and 30-06 w/180gr Nosler Partitons, both were DRT kills. One was stalking the shooter as he was sitting in timber, fortunately he saw the cat sneaking up on him 50yds away, or it would have been a different story. The other was at about 100yds, the cat was chasing turkeys that flew up into a tree, the cat was watching the turkeys in the wrong place at the wrong time in view of the friend with the 270.

Tim

mitchell · « **Reply #6 on:** March 15, 2008, 05:27:43 PM »

sure its enough gun but do make sure you put me in your will before you go hunting

i'ld say if i was yote hunting in cat country i would use a 243 still small enough for yotes but big enough to handle a cat

lrrice · « **Reply #7 on:** March 15, 2008, 06:31:54 PM »

I grew up hunting mountain lions, and I would feel plenty comfortable with a .223. Its bigger than anything I ever killed one with. Course, I'm one of those fools who hunts mule deer with an itty bitty .243.

handirifle · « **Reply #8 on:** March 15, 2008, 07:26:59 PM »

The 223 is a powerful round and can kill most any animal in north America, IF placed properly and under the right conditions. Mountain lions are thin skinned, like a deer, BUT, I would not want to shoot an ML with one only to find out the bullet didn't penetrate or it hit a shoulder bone, and the cat is mad at me.

I have no doubt it will kill one, but shooting a single shot, I'd want a 243 or bigger, and that would be with something like a Sierra HPBT or heavier. Maybe hunt yote with a 243 and 90 or 95gr SP bullets.

I was reading an article about a lion hunting guide, and he used dogs. We wants them killed NOW, as he doesn't want them dropping on top of his dogs. Handguns he will allow nothing smaller than 44 Mag and 30 cal or bigger in rifle.

GatCat · « **Reply #9 on:** March 16, 2008, 02:30:57 AM »

A friend of mine is a guide in British Columbia, and his favorite rifle for tree'd cougars is a .204 Ruger. Clients like it's light weight, and even novice hunters do very well with it, due to its very minimal recoil. I'd think the .223 with good bullets ( Winchester power points or similar ) would do very well, IF you place the shot well ( lungs ).
He's of the opinion that cougars die pretty easily, and there's no need to blow a big exit hole in the hide.
Mark

billy_56081 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 16, 2008, 04:46:58 AM »

The .22 mag is a legal caliber in many places. A .223 with a decent bullet and decent shot placement is plenty.

McLernon · « **Reply #11 on:** March 16, 2008, 05:39:53 AM »

When hunting dangerous game, and cougars can be dangerous especially when wounded use a caliber that is going to be able to break up some bones. I have seen these animals and i really would only hunt them with a caliber that can produce a bang-flop.

Mc

Davemuzz · « **Reply #12 on:** March 16, 2008, 05:46:58 AM »

Quote from: handirifle on March 15, 2008, 07:26:59 PM

The 223 is a powerful round and can kill most any animal in north America, IF placed properly and under the right conditions.

My hunting knife is plenty of metal and will kill anything in North America IF placed properly and under the right conditions.

However, my Moma didn't raise no fool. I'm still going out cat huntin with my 45-70.....blowin holes in the hide is the least of my worries.

Dave

rbergum95 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 16, 2008, 07:25:19 AM »

if i were hunting coyotes and called in a cougar i would hoot him with a .223 if that is what i was using and it were legal to do so. if i were specifically calling cougars i would probably want a .243 or a bit larger. now if the cougar was sitting if front of me licking his chops with that "fresh meat" look on his face i would empty whatever firearm i had in my hands at him.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #14 on:** March 16, 2008, 08:07:05 AM »

I would shoot a cougar with a 223, I would not hunt a cougar with a 223, unless it was in an AR rifle.

Cheese

Davemuzz · « **Reply #15 on:** March 16, 2008, 09:13:19 AM »

Quote from: Cheesehead on March 16, 2008, 08:07:05 AM

I would shoot a cougar with a 223, I would not hunt a cougar with a 223, unless it was in an AR rifle.

Cheese

That's a good way to put it. Do they make 50 round clips for those 223 A\R's? $:-\$

Dave

Cheesehead · « **Reply #16 on:** March 16, 2008, 09:58:34 AM »

I believe 100 round drums are available for the AR-15, for cougar hunting.

Cheese

Davemuzz · « **Reply #17 on:** March 16, 2008, 10:48:11 AM »

100 rounders 'eh? That's good....I'd order 2.

plottrunner · « **Reply #18 on:** March 16, 2008, 03:18:13 PM »

I have been hunting and guiding lion hunts for 10+ years and over that time I have seen them shot with about everything. A 223 is more than enough gun for a mountain lion..... Most clients that I have taken use a pistol....ranging from a 22 mag on up...Of course we are using dogs so the shot is point blank.....

Davemuzz · « **Reply #19 on:** March 16, 2008, 05:06:38 PM »

Well......you haven't had me as a client yet.

Dave

torpedoman · « **Reply #20 on:** March 16, 2008, 06:39:44 PM »

seeing as how most treed cats are shot out with a 22 i think a 223 may just barley be up to the job.

jmayton · « **Reply #21 on:** March 16, 2008, 06:49:05 PM »

I haven't shot a cougar...actually never seen one, but to whether or not the .223 will do the job... I shot a 90lb feral hog with my handi using my hand loads (Sierra 55gr SBT's #1365 pushed by 27grains of IMR4320) at 65 yards. The bullet entered the neck just behind the skull, bounced off the back of the skull and exited the opposite shoulder tearing it to pieces. I was surprised by the exit. When I went to dress her, there were pieces of bone everywhere. It'll do the job, but with an animal that can kill and eat me, I would still want something more, or at least a higher rate of fire than an handi can offer.

Saloon slug · « **Reply #22 on:** March 17, 2008, 06:14:51 PM »

I wouldnt have a problem shooting a Cougar with a .223. The problem I see is when my hunting partner and I are out coyote hunting we are using light bullets designed to explode in bobcats and 30lb yotes. I would not be confident that they would do the job but that is why I carry my Vaquero in .45colt.

MLP · « **Reply #23 on:** March 17, 2008, 09:57:50 PM »

Since 1990, mountain lion hunting has been banned here in California. As such, the Cleveland National Forest has become a defacto mountain lion preserve. Super aggressive 100+ pound cats have attacked - and occasionally eaten - hikers and mountain bikers in the area.

Hypothetically:

If the animal was secured by a leg-hold trap, it could be easily dispatched by a well placed .223 shot. However, if I were intentionally calling a mountain lion, I would want nothing less than the Remington 11-87, slug in the chamber, 00-buck in the magazine, and a mounted bayonet in case things got ugly.

M

jdwolf · « **Reply #24 on:** March 17, 2008, 11:03:12 PM »

Quote from: Saloon slug on March 17, 2008, 06:14:51 PM

I wouldnt have a problem shooting a Cougar with a .223. The problem I see is when my hunting partner and I are out coyote hunting we are using light bullets designed to explode in bobcats and 30lb yotes. I would not be confident that they would do the job but that is why I carry my Vaquero in .45colt.

Like yourself I'm a coyote hunter that uses a light .223 load (Remington 45-gr JHP) in my Handi and wondered if would be enough to drop a big cat seeing as how it is a thin skined animal. Also, seeing as how my Handi is a single shot I also carry a sidearm, my Ruger Blackhawk .357 Magnum.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #25 on:** March 17, 2008, 11:41:57 PM »

Quote from: MLP on March 17, 2008, 09:57:50 PM

Since 1990, mountain lion hunting has been banned here in California. As such, the Cleveland National Forest has become a defacto mountain lion preserve. Super aggressive 100+ pound cats have attacked - and occasionally eaten - hikers and mountain bikers in the area.

My only hope it the big cats would be selective enough to eat only the tree huggers who support the hunting ban on them. Yeah......ain't nuthin like a belly full of cat lovin people thigh to keep you on the "let's just all be free" list!!!!

Dave

jmayton · « **Reply #26 on:** March 18, 2008, 04:00:03 AM »

I agree, I wouldn't want light, frangible bullets up against a big cat. I'd do what I have to, but I like MLP's plan. I don't think you can have too much gun for a cat...or anything that can kill and eat you.

kevthebassman · « **Reply #27 on:** March 18, 2008, 01:23:54 PM »

Lion aren't bulletproof. Fairly thin skinned, I'm told. I wouldn't hesitate to hunt one with a .223.

Busta · « **Reply #28 on:** March 19, 2008, 01:45:06 AM »

I wouldn't go out and try calling in a cougar with a .223, but with the right load I'm sure it would be adequate for treed lions.

However, if I was hunting 'yotes and a cat came in on me, I think any .223 load would work better than the load in your pants.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #29 on:** March 19, 2008, 03:06:49 AM »

"If you were coyote hunting with a .223 Handi and called in a Cougar would you shoot him?" - Perhaps...

"Is the .223 powerful enough to put the big cat down?" - Yes... shot placement is everything.

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