375 H&H vs. 375 Ruger

[Swampman]

I'd rather shoot a 2 MOA Remington than a 1 MOA Ruger.  Of course there is little chance of finding a 1 MOA Ruger.

[deltecs]

I'd rather shoot a 2 MOA Remington than a 1 MOA Ruger.  Of course there is little chance of finding a 1 MOA Ruger.

To each his own, but I have 3 Rugers that all shoot MOA.  A Ruger RSI M77 Mark I in .243 Win, a Ruger Mark I M77 in 30-06 and a Ruger Mark I M77 in .280 Rem.  Admittedly I use only handloads, so worked up loads for them but all of them shoot well with different weight bullets with slow burning powders like H4350, IMR 4831, H4831, IMR 4350 and standard primers.  Someone posted a while back that the early Rugers had Douglas barrels on them.  I don't know if mine do, but all of them are very early model M77 Mark I's.  The loadind data for them are
.243 Win  42 gr  H4350 or IMR 4350 using 100 gr Sierra BT or Speer flat base bullets.  All minute of angle at 100 yds=.6"
.30-06  59 gr IMR 4350 or H4350 using 165 gr Nosler Pt or Sierra BT=.8"
30-06   54 gr  IMR 4350 using 220 Sierra RN or Nosler PT=.75"
.280 Rem  55 gr  IMR 4831 with 145 gr Speer BT, 54 gr of IMR 4831 with 150 gr Sirra BT=.4"
All these for 3 shot groups at 15' above sea level, temp at 45*, no fouling shot, scopes are Leupold VariX II 1x4.
I realize these loads are at or slightly over maximum in the loading manuals and do not recommend them for anyone as a starting load.  My particular rifles like near max loads for best accuracy with the bullets I use.   

[S.B.]

sasu, what distance were you shooting at? RN I know is round nose but, what is SBT bullets? Looks like a milpark IPSC target and they are usually shot at no more than 25 yards and hits are sure far from the center. No definite center(bullseye) is shown so must be shot pretty close?
Steve

[corbanzo]

Where the bullseye is doesn't matter, it's only how close the shots are to eachother that matters, all the rest is your scope settings.  SBT is spitzer boat tail.  Pretty much a pointed bullet with a boat tail, also called spire point boat tail. 

He stated the distance from target at 75 meters.

[S.B.]

Where the bullseye is doesn't matter, it's only how close the shots are to eachother that matters, all the rest is your scope settings.  SBT is spitzer boat tail.  Pretty much a pointed bullet with a boat tail, also called spire point boat tail. 

He stated the distance from target at 75 meters.

Oh, doesn't it? You have to have an aiming point to alow you to accurately aim at something! Your reply sounds like your a Ruger fan(doen't want to listen to fact)? Do you really think anybody can aim just anywhere and call that a group? Get real!

[sasu]

My aiming point was an orange sticker with a 1 inch diameter. The distance was 75 meters.

Half of the groups I shot aiming half way between the edge of the target and the aiming sticker so I could have two separate groups per target. This way I had less walking to do.

The IPSC targets are easier to set up and easier to patch than traditional targets because they are made of robust carboard. And their size, shape (installed on its side) and color are pretty good for hunting practice: you have to imagine the exact aiming point, the brown color blends into the surroundings.

Here you can see one of those stickers. They come in different sizes. The smaller 1 inch dot seems about perfect for accuracy testing with a scoped rifle.



When I do load development, I do not bother adjusting the sights. It is good enough if I get the groups on the cardboard. I perform the proper sight adjustments before going hunting or before a competition.

[mcwoodduck]

I have a 375H&H.  Bought it just before the Ruger came out.  If I had it to do over again.  Not sure.  i bought the rifle, a SAKO, for Elk hunting in heavy cover.  i have a 338 Win Mag for Elk but the scope on it has an adjustable objective and when doing a push in MT a few years back I was walking through heavy brush where I had to dial the front end a lot.  The SAKO wears a fixed 4 power Leupold and is accurate out to 200 yards off hand.  I'm not recoil sensitive but the H&H hurts after a box off the bench.
I have gone the other way in rifles and the ugglier the better.  My Winchester M70 super grade classic keeps getting more and more knicks in it each hunt and I have been looking at stainless rifles with composite stocks for in the field.  After this season i think a Remington M700 XCR in 7mm Rem Mag or 338 Win Mag is in the budget with a 3-9X40 Trijicon scope.
If i had to do it all over again It would be hard to pick the SAKO with the wood stock and deep blueing.  The Ruger Alaska model with a Trijicon 1.25-4X28 scope would be had to pass up.  Ammo availability would be my only concern.  Many people load for the H&H, only Hornady loads for the Ruger.  If Ruger would make thier Safari rifle in an Alaska model I would be ordering one, now that I have an H&H with Brass, Dies, and lots of 300 grain Projectiles.
Your point of the length of the action not mattering is only for full sized people.  When I first started out hunting Dad wanted to get me a 30-06 for my 14th B Day and had me cycle the action while looking down the sights.  I dented my nose with the bolt.  Got a ruger 308 and could not be happier with it.

[corbanzo]

Are you kidding me?  He obviosly has an aiming point.  I didn't mention anything about make or marks on any gun.  You start flaming me over that?  If he didn't have an aimpoint, he wouldn't have a group like that.  Why don't you open your mouth after you've thought about what is coming out of it.  Just because you don't know his exact aimpoint matters how?  Explain how to get a MOA group without aiming?

I know this doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand... but if someone have me a ruger rifle, I would thank them for my new crowbar. 

Where the bullseye is doesn't matter, it's only how close the shots are to eachother that matters, all the rest is your scope settings.  SBT is spitzer boat tail.  Pretty much a pointed bullet with a boat tail, also called spire point boat tail. 

He stated the distance from target at 75 meters.

Oh, doesn't it? You have to have an aiming point to alow you to accurately aim at something! Your reply sounds like your a Ruger fan(doen't want to listen to fact)? Do you really think anybody can aim just anywhere and call that a group? Get real!

[curtism1234]

Are you kidding me?  He obviosly has an aiming point.  I didn't mention anything about make or marks on any gun.  You start flaming me over that?  If he didn't have an aimpoint, he wouldn't have a group like that.  Why don't you open your mouth after you've thought about what is coming out of it.  Just because you don't know his exact aimpoint matters how?  Explain how to get a MOA group without aiming?

I know this doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand... but if someone have me a ruger rifle, I would thank them for my new crowbar. 

If I'm trying out loads, I don't care where the group goes. The only thing I'm interested in is the group size. The location can moved once I'd decided on a load.

As far as Ruger accuracy goes, I'm not on this forum enough to know what alterations people do with their guns if any. But it's been my experience that Rugers are crapshoots out of the box. Most are not 1" guns and furthermore there are more 1" guns on the internet than there are in real life anyway regardless of brand.
My point being though, that when I see Rugers that shoot that well the owner has usually put several hundred dollars into them first. Is it still a ruger? sure.  Is it a little deceptive? possibly

[deltecs]

With an obvious prejudice against Rugers and probably never bought or owned one, the comments about Ruger accuracy out of the box are definitely statements without substance.  I've never done any thing to change or modify any of my Ruger Mark I's.  Not glass bedding, not anything.  I've have done my handloading home work though as most factory ammo will not shoot MOA in them.  At least, none that I've found.  But with my handloads, all of them shoot well with at least 2 different bullet weights, one with sectional density around .250 and the other bullet with at least a .300.  Obviously that cannot happen with the .243 Win as the sectional densisty of 100 gr bullets is around .250 and bullets are not available in the bore size that approach .300.  Still these posts on Ruger accuracy are not true, nor are they sugstantiated by any facts.

[Swampman]

I've owned several.  None were good shooters.  I won't own another.

[deltecs]

I've owned several.  None were good shooters.  I won't own another.

That's because you were using factory loads.  Had you tuned the rifles with handloads, I would have bet you money that Rugers shoot every bit as well as most out of box Remingtons.

[Swampman]

I've owned several.  None were good shooters.  I won't own another.

That's because you were using factory loads.  Had you tuned the rifles with handloads, I would have bet you money that Rugers shoot every bit as well as most out of box Remingtons.

No, that was with both handloads and factory loads.  My friend recently gave up & sold his Ruger M77 .243 because it was all over the place.  With my Remingtons it's difficult to find a load that doesn't shoot great.

[deltecs]

I've owned several.  None were good shooters.  I won't own another.

That's because you were using factory loads.  Had you tuned the rifles with handloads, I would have bet you money that Rugers shoot every bit as well as most out of box Remingtons.

No, that was with both handloads and factory loads.  My friend recently gave up & sold his Ruger M77 .243 because it was all over the place.  With my Remingtons it's difficult to find a load that doesn't shoot great.

In other posts, you relate that you don't and won't use handloads, while here you say you have.  Which is it?  How many different loads did you attempt?  What bullet weights did you try and what brands?  What powder, primer, brass, COL, and sights did you use to acheive these results?  And I'd like to contest the statement that Remingtons hava a hard time finding a load it doesnt' shoot well.  All my Rugers shoot loads OK, but will shoot tuned handloads with good MOA.

[Swampman]

"In other posts, you relate that you don't and won't use handloads"

Sorry, I've never said that.  I use handloads & I like to load my own, I just don't think it should be necessary.

I don't have the time it would take to relate all the powder & bullet combos I've tried.  It was so long ago I don't even remember.  I finally got the .30-06 to shoot ok using IMR-4831 after a month of so of shooting it & fooling with the bedding everyday.  The others never did shoot well.  I just gave up on Rugers and never looked back.

[S.B.]

This debate started as a discussion between .375 H&H and .375 Ruger magnum but has degraded to an argument between Remington fans and Ruger fans. Remingtons are my choice, Rugers don't add up, in my opinion. I'm sure they're functional but, not for me. Maybe, because that's what I started with? If the original Winchesters were still made, maybe I'd be of a different opinion? As far as the differences between the two calibers I see no need to reinvent the wheel? I chose the H&H magnum.
Let the flames begin.

[sasu]

I own three Remington centerfire rifles and two Rugers. I guess I can have Remington versus Ruger arguments even just by myself.

[mcwoodduck]

Does that make you a Schizophrenic guy nut?    

[mcwoodduck]

Sorry,  Not Guy, "GUN Nut".
Was working too hard on spelling schizophrenic to notice my typo.