Author Topic: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees  (Read 3616 times)

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Offline banen

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Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« on: March 21, 2008, 04:44:33 PM »
I was wondering if anyone had some ballistics software or some way to tell me what the FPS and Energy of a .22 LR is at LONG range?  I just got to thinking about the safety of Squirrel hunting with a .22.  I know it is a commonly accepted practice and I am personally always very careful of where I am shooting and where a bullet might land if I miss (the only way to be safe).  I was just curious about the actual physics if anyone could provide some help.  I would guess this might be an interesting discussion.    I know the ammo boxes say dangerous at 1.5 mi.  My guess is that by 500 yds the .22 is less than 400 fps and by 800 it is less than 200?

Offline nilescoyote

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2008, 08:52:02 PM »
I was out shooting last weekend at 200 yards, using high velocity ammo I needed 32" of elevation from my 50 yards zero in order to connect with a 6" spinner. Back when I was young I used to lob rounds out in a field, targeting dirt clumps after the field had been plowed. As I remember it I had to aim 10 to 12 feet high at 400 to 500 hundred and at that range just a light wind would blow you off several yards. After that the bullet would not go much farther, with out pointing the barrel up at a steep angle. I got good enough at it that I took out a possum at 350 yards once and many different vermin at ranges of 150 to 250. I would use my scope's reticule where the heavy plex tapered down to fine plex and memorize the different power settings for different amounts of elevation.   Oh to be dumb and young again....

Offline BillP

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2008, 09:56:32 AM »
I have tried on several forms to find someone with the math/physics background needed to take this on as a project with no luck.  Lots of folks with warnings but no one who could do the math.  It appears that a falling .22LR slug is nearly although not necessarily totally harmless.  this is due to the terminal velocity of such an object and the fact that it tumbles or oscillates as it falls.  It appears that the problem is to determine just how high the angle has to be to create a situation that makes the slug simply a falling object and not a balisticly stable bullet with some remaining velocity that could make it's speed considerably higher than the presumably harmless terminal velocity.  Keeping in mind all along that getting hit in the eye by one that's just falling would not be a good thing.  I wish I had the education to do the math but unfortunately I don't.

Offline Oldtimer

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2008, 02:41:24 PM »
I wish I could recall the source for sure:  I think it was Elmer Keith, who did a lot of long range shooting, who said that a .22 Long Rifle shot its maximum range with 30 degrees of elevation.  The minimum velocity for skin penetration is 300 f/s.  To penetrate the eyeball takes only 150 f/s, so even at maximum range, the .22 can inflict a serious wound.  Firing a bullet straight up would be a special case.  The bullet would not regain all its speed on the trip back down, but could still be harmful.  I remember once shooting at a squirrel that was overhead and wondering where the bullets would land.  At least, they did not land on me.

Offline IOWA DON

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2008, 05:52:37 AM »
I did some trial and error calculations on my ballistics program and have some numbers. Accuracy of the results is somewhat questionable as a bullet's ballistic coefficient may change a lot at lower velocities, especially if the bullet starts to tumble. The assumption is that one is shooting at a squirrel in a tree 50 yards away. The rifle is 5 feet above the ground and the squirrel is 25 feet above the ground. Results show that if the squirrel is missed, a 40-grain .22 Long Rifle bullet will strike the ground 1,200 yards away with a velocity of 301 feet per second and an energy of 8.1 foot pounds. I have not fired a .22 Long Rifle at an aerial target for at least ten years as I have a couple rifles which I feel are much safer for that use. One is a rifle chambered only for .22 Shorts. Given the same conditions, a 27-grain high-speed hollow-point .22 Short bullet would strike the ground 875 yards away with a velocity of 224 feet per second and an energy of 3.0 foot pounds. The other rifle is a .17 Hornet with 15-grain Berger hollow-point bullets. Given the same conditions the bullet would strike the ground 1,500 yards away with a velocity of 210 feet per second and an energy of 1.5 foot pounds. Under the given conditions the .22 Short and the .17 Hornet bullets would both cause pain on bare skin but would only cause a serious injury if they hit and eye. The .22 Long Rifle bullet has a lot more energy, but still would probably only cause a serious injury if it hot an eye. The problem is that if the upward angle is much less, there will be a much higher impact velocity. In the field under hunting conditions may be difficult to be sure that upward angle is high enough.

Offline oldandslow

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2008, 02:36:36 AM »
I seem to remember reading a test done back when 22LR boxes still said " Range, 1 Mile". Can't even remember what magazine or who did the test but they never managed to get any ammo to shoot 1 mile. I really think 1.5 mile range is lawyer talk. At extreme range I am guessing getting hit with a 22 would result in a bruise unless it was in the eye.


Offline BillP

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2008, 06:02:32 AM »
Don,
Shooting at a squirrel in a tree 50 yards away would not be considered a high angle shot.  I don't dispute your data but that would be a shot that I would want to know I had a clear "drop zone" for the bullet.  With all the woods and lakes around here that's not hard to do but I don't want bullets falling on folks, their buildings or livestock.  What I would consider a "high angle", squirrel in a tree kind of shot would be more like standing 20 ft from the tree with a squirrel high in the branches.  In this situation the bullet could reach quite an altitude but would fall much closer to the shooter.  Despite the high altitude it reaches It can't fall any faster than the terminal velocity for such an object and research going back as far as Hatcher shows the bullet to be tumbling or oscillating which will slow it's decent.

As you said, your calculation is based on ballistics and it was interesting to see how far the energy level had dropped (even more if the bullet had destabilized).   It's my understanding however that your bullet still retains more energy than one that is simply falling.  It requires entirely different math than a ballistics table provides but someone must know how to do it.  The questions I would like answered are"

What is the energy of a falling .22 slug?
What would be the effect of tumbling or oscillating?
At what angle does the bullet become primarily a falling object as opposed to a ballistic one?
What is the effect of wind on this?

Offline IOWA DON

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2008, 07:40:37 AM »
BillP - About a year ago I did a bunch of searching on Google to try to find some good info on this subject. I found a bunch of conflicting data, but passed it on to my 12-year-old grandson along with the .22 rifle I got him for his birthday. I wanted him to think a bunch before shooting at birds or squirrels up in trees. The most interesting experiment I found was where someone put a bullet in a vertical wind tunnel and increased the air velocity until the bullet floated. In this experiment the bullet tumbled. I don't remember what bullet it was but think it was much heavier than a .22 rimfire and it seems the velocity was lower than I expected. However, I have read that sometimes bullets, if shot more or less strait up, will return point forward. One summer I worked with a guy who claimed that during he boot camp one of the recruits he was running with said something stung him and fell down dead. The sting was from a bullet from "who knows where". - DON

Offline Moss88hunter

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2008, 08:45:08 AM »
From Mythbusters:
"Adam built an acrylic wind tunnel (much like the one in the Penny Drop myth). Air was shot up through the bottom and a bullet was dropped into the chamber. The terminal velocity was calculated based on the speed of the air needed to make the bullet stop falling. They figured that the terminal velocity was 100mph (150 ft/s). The wind tunnel also showed that the most stable falling position for the bullets was on their side."

I doubt this is true because there will be a difference between a .22 and a .50 cal. The differences in weight and surface area will cause drag on the bullet.

Q: If a bullet is fired vertically from a rifle, what will its terminal velocity be if it strikes the top of someones head on its way back down?
 
A: This question is hard to answer in general. The best I can give is a "worst-case" estimation.
When a gun is fired vertically, the bullet after some time reaches a summit where the velocity  is zero, and then falls back. The bullet will fall back base first which is hard to calculate. I can estimate the velocity if it would fall nose first, that is the normal flying position for which drag is well known - so the real terminal velocity will actually be smaller than the following prediction.
 
For a .22 lr bullet (m=40 grain, v0 = 1150 ft/s)
the summit will be at 1164 ft, the total flight time 30 seconds and the terminal velocity 270 ft/s

Evan
"It is better to be tried by twelve than carried by six!"

Offline BillP

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2008, 10:05:35 AM »
The literature is replete with accounts of people being injured or killed by "falling bullets" however every account I have ever read either does not know where the bullet came from or identifies a situation in which the bullet could be in a viable ballistic arc and still stable.   As an example the story told by the doctor on the Mithbusters show has the shooter over 1/2 mile from the victim.  What I am seeing is "experts" who don't understand how dramatic the parabola a bullet travels is when it passes beyond what shooters consider it's effective range.  They see the bullet as just falling back to earth, however, although it's downward angle has increased considerably, it is still stable and retains energy from being fired.  Under those circumstances we have to consider it to be highly dangerous and perhaps lethal.

Of course if the original angle at which a bullet has been fired is high enough, it will loose enough energy and spin that it will destabilize.  A bullet fired to it's "maximum range" will have reached this condition by the end of it's flight.  Once this happens, oscillation and eventual tumbling will occur as it dumps energy rapidly.  This bullet, although it retains some of it's original energy, will be far less dangerous than the first one.  I suspect that as Dan said a little 15 or 17gr .17 Cal. bullet would be far less of a problem than say a 180gr .30 Cal. bullet.

Finally we have the true "high angle shot" in which the bullet is fired nearly straight up.  This bullet totally runs out of energy and becomes unstable.  It falls back to earth gaining velocity until it reaches it's individual "terminal velocity" and it's energy is a product of it's regained velocity and it's weight.  What little I have found indicates that oscillation of conventional bullet shaped objects adds considerably to drag and reduces terminal velocity.  With this in mind, a .22 slug with it's more spherical shape could reach a higher terminal velocity than say a .30 Cal. BTHP, although the .30 has more weight.   If that is true, a big heavy muzzleloader ball could be the most dangerous.


Offline IOWA DON

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2008, 12:09:56 PM »
Recent news in Omaha is that a 14-year-old boy was hit by a bullet believed to have been fired from a gun about one mile away. The boy was hit by the bullet at about the same time folks a mile away reported guns being fired. I think the report said that the bullet entered through his cheek and took out nine teeth. He will get tooth implants by is expected to be OK. The report said he was lucky but I think he was more unlucky than lucky. Omaha has a lot of gang violence which has left quite a few dead people including some totally innocent children.

Offline BillP

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2008, 04:58:06 AM »
Don,
Good example!  The round fired was not identified but clearly this could be a ballisticly stable round (the most dangerous).  By the way, here in MN we get the occasional deer hunter killed or injured by a gun shot wound.  I know of one injury that was determined to be the result of a "stray" bullet, but mostly they are the result of careless gun handling or intentional shots fired at misidentified targets.

Offline Chris Potts

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2008, 01:31:32 PM »
This isn't rimfire related but it is related to the topic.  I have a load for my 357 max. that uses a 200 gr lead bullet seated backward in the case and crimped over the top of the gascheck shank (so that just the gascheck shank is sticking out of the brass).  I used trailboss and the load chronographs at just under 700 fps.  Accuracy is very good.  The first and only time that I put it on paper all 10 rounds went into an inch at fifty yards.  It also shoot to point of aim at 50 yrds when my whitetail load is sighted at 100.  I was planning on using this load on squirrels in the fall.  It is stable at 50 yrds.  I haven't shoot it any farther but I was thinking that it might start to tumble by the time it gets to 100 yrds.  My thought was that this would limit the range of a stray bullet.  I am always very careful when I am shooting up trees but I was just thinking that it would give me a little extra insurance.


Chris

Offline IOWA DON

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2008, 09:13:33 AM »
Chris Potts - My guess is that a 200-grain bullet will come down with a relatively large amount of energy no matter what its initial velocity. Sounds like an interesting load. I used to put .20 caliber Sheridan pellets in my Sheridan air rifle backwards. They worked as a large hollow point and generally shot as accurately as they did forward. - DON

Offline Chris Potts

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2008, 11:19:28 AM »
Don,

I was thinking more along the lines of decreased range rather than decreased energy.  You are certainly right about the 200 gr slug.  I would think that it could be going pretty slow and still do quite a bit of damage.  My thought was that it once it lost stability it would drop like a rock.  I don't know that I will use it if I am only going for squirrels.  My intention was to have a load that was accurate enough and shoot to point of aim so that I could drop one in if the opportunity presented itself during deer season.  It seems like I always see more squirrels when I am deer hunting.

Offline Ray Cover

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2008, 05:24:19 PM »
I grew up hunting tree rats with a 22 rifle and when I was in my teens I liked to use my High Standard HD military 22 pistol.

Dad always taught us boys that part of setting up the shot was to make sure there was another tree or ample branch behind the target to take the round after it passed through the squirrel ..... and if you were not sure the shot was safe downrange pass it up and wait for a better opportunity. 

My daughter is getting ready to take her hunter safety course to hunt with me this year. That same bit of instruction is in her safety study book.

No shot from any firearm is safe if the only thing you are relying on to stop the bullet downrange is air and imagination.  It doesn't matter what the ballistics or velocities are.  The safety of squirrel hunting with a 22 comes from being patient and aware to set up a proper shot with a safe backstop for the bullet.  The same safety rule applies to squirrel hunting with a 375 H&H mag. ;D

If the issue is really safety then shot set up is what you need to be concerned with not ballistics.

JMHO,

Ray

Offline Chris Potts

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2008, 04:49:04 PM »
Didn't mean to imply that I wasn't going to be careful.  Like you I am very careful whenever I shoot a gun not just in the air.  I was basically just speculating about what ifs.  Someone mentioned bullets being stabile and in a basilitic arc.  I was just mentioning my personal experience with a load that I don't think will stay stabile at long range.  I would like to shoot it at a longer range to see if it loses stability, but just for my own curiosity.  Not planning on shooting carelessly in the air just becuase the cartridge MIGHT (or even if I knew that it did for that matter) have decreased range compared to some others.  As you said that would not be responsible. 

I imagine you only take head shots with the .375 to save the meat for eating.

Chris

Offline Keith L

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2008, 06:11:06 PM »
With the .375 you can "bark" them like the old timers used to.  Then you only need to get close...
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."  Benjamin Franklin

Offline BillP

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2008, 06:18:37 PM »
OK, lets talk about depending on a tree or a branch to stop a bullet.  Would you tack up a target on a tree along your property line with your neighbor's house behind it and start shooting at it.  Maybe, but I think most of us would want a better backstop, perhaps a dirt berm or a stack of RR ties. What Ray suggests is certainly a good idea and I do the same thing however I just can't satisfy myself with a 6 or 8 inch branch as a backstop.  I need to supplement that with a safe area beyond the tree.  In the case of a shot at ground level or slightly above, You may be able to see that the area is clear.  In the case of a shot higher into a tree you need to think in terms of a safe drop zone.  In my area that's not hard to do with lakes and large uninhabited areas.  But what about the truly high angle shot, that is the question we are asking here.  The one that depending on the wind, might just come down on you.  Will ordinary hunting clothing protect you as they do from shotgun pellets?

Offline yooper77

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2008, 06:20:33 AM »
Be aware of your backstop.

Safety is the most important aspect of any activity.

High powered center-fire rifle, rim-fire rifle, shotgun, deer hunting, squirrel hunting, duck hunting the lists go on an on.

Shoot only if you are 100% sure your projectile(s) will not travel into buildings, towns, livestock, wildlife, people basically common sense.

Many times, I choose not to shoot, because a animal is silhouetted on a hill top and I wasn't sure of where my bullets would travel.

Only stupid firearm accidents happens when stupids people are mishandling firearms.

yooper77

Offline bluntweapon

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2008, 01:08:18 PM »
i plan on trying this round for varmits  not very powerful but i cant imagine it would travel very far either http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM066-3528-304.html

Offline banen

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2008, 01:37:06 PM »
geez, Initially when I posted this I expected to get a lot of good discussion but didn't up to when I had checked it last.  Now I come back to see a lot of good posts.  Thanks guys for sharing your thoughts, stories and data.  That's why this is such a great forum. 

Offline valvesinmyhead

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2008, 12:17:17 PM »
Here is some info.

Load Data
~~~~~~~~~

Name: CCI 36gr MiniMag HP
Ballistic Coeff: 0.126
Bullet Weight: 36
Velocity: 1280
Target Distance: 50
Scope Height: 1.500
Temperature: 70
Altitude: 500

Ballistic Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Range  Elevation  Velocity   Energy     ETA         Drop      Max Y  10mph Wind Deflect
  0 yds   -1.50 in  1280 fps   131 fpe  0.000 sec    0.00 in  -1.50 in    0.00 in
 25 yds    0.01 in  1194 fps   114 fpe  0.061 sec    0.69 in  -0.42 in    0.36 in
 50 yds   -0.00 in  1123 fps   101 fpe  0.125 sec    2.91 in   0.16 in    1.45 in
 75 yds   -1.73 in  1066 fps    91 fpe  0.194 sec    6.84 in   1.23 in    3.22 in
100 yds   -5.36 in  1019 fps    83 fpe  0.266 sec   12.68 in   2.84 in    5.57 in
125 yds  -11.05 in   980 fps    77 fpe  0.341 sec   20.57 in   5.05 in    8.45 in
150 yds  -18.99 in   947 fps    72 fpe  0.419 sec   30.72 in   7.93 in   11.87 in
175 yds  -29.31 in   917 fps    67 fpe  0.500 sec   43.24 in  11.53 in   15.75 in
200 yds  -42.09 in   889 fps    63 fpe  0.583 sec   58.23 in  15.89 in   20.03 in
225 yds  -57.55 in   864 fps    60 fpe  0.668 sec   75.89 in  21.09 in   24.76 in
250 yds  -75.89 in   840 fps    56 fpe  0.756 sec   96.44 in  27.20 in   29.98 in
275 yds  -97.16 in   818 fps    54 fpe  0.847 sec  119.91 in  34.25 in   35.60 in
300 yds -121.47 in   797 fps    51 fpe  0.939 sec  146.42 in  42.29 in   41.59 in
325 yds -149.02 in   777 fps    48 fpe  1.034 sec  176.18 in  51.40 in   47.99 in
350 yds -180.19 in   758 fps    46 fpe  1.132 sec  209.56 in  61.72 in   54.92 in
375 yds -215.05 in   740 fps    44 fpe  1.233 sec  246.62 in  73.27 in   62.30 in
400 yds -253.65 in   722 fps    42 fpe  1.336 sec  287.43 in  86.11 in   70.09 in
425 yds -296.06 in   704 fps    40 fpe  1.441 sec  332.04 in 100.28 in   78.25 in
450 yds -342.43 in   688 fps    38 fpe  1.548 sec  380.61 in 115.83 in   86.79 in
475 yds -393.46 in   671 fps    36 fpe  1.658 sec  433.85 in 133.02 in   95.90 in
500 yds -449.32 in   656 fps    34 fpe  1.772 sec  491.91 in 151.92 in  105.54 in
525 yds -510.10 in   640 fps    33 fpe  1.888 sec  554.90 in 172.59 in  115.68 in
550 yds -575.88 in   625 fps    31 fpe  2.007 sec  622.88 in 195.08 in  126.28 in
575 yds -646.73 in   611 fps    30 fpe  2.128 sec  695.93 in 219.44 in  137.31 in
600 yds -723.30 in   596 fps    28 fpe  2.252 sec  774.71 in 245.92 in  148.89 in
625 yds -805.03 in   582 fps    27 fpe  2.379 sec  858.64 in 274.36 in  160.82 in
650 yds -893.46 in   569 fps    26 fpe  2.509 sec  949.28 in 305.29 in  173.42 in
675 yds -988.72 in   555 fps    25 fpe  2.643 sec 1046.75 in 338.79 in  186.66 in
700 yds-1090.93 in   542 fps    23 fpe  2.780 sec 1151.16 in 374.94 in  200.49 in
725 yds-1200.20 in   529 fps    22 fpe  2.920 sec 1262.63 in 413.80 in  214.87 in
750 yds-1316.61 in   517 fps    21 fpe  3.063 sec 1381.25 in 455.47 in  229.78 in
775 yds-1440.27 in   504 fps    20 fpe  3.209 sec 1507.11 in 500.00 in  245.17 in
800 yds-1571.92 in   492 fps    19 fpe  3.359 sec 1640.97 in 547.70 in  261.16 in

Offline banen

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2008, 03:49:40 PM »
WOW that is great data.  Thanks a ton that is exactly what I was looking for. 


Offline valvesinmyhead

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2008, 04:53:27 PM »
Something with more power.
Load Data
~~~~~~~~~

Name: CCI 40gr Velcitor
Ballistic Coeff: 0.132
Bullet Weight: 40
Velocity: 1435
Target Distance: 50
Scope Height: 1.500
Temperature: 70
Altitude: 500

Ballistic Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Range  Elevation  Velocity   Energy     ETA         Drop      Max Y  10mph Wind Deflect
  0 yds   -1.50 in  1435 fps   183 fpe  0.000 sec    0.00 in  -1.50 in    0.00 in
 25 yds   -0.14 in  1335 fps   158 fpe  0.054 sec    0.56 in  -0.46 in    0.38 in
 50 yds   -0.00 in  1246 fps   138 fpe  0.113 sec    2.33 in   0.02 in    1.41 in
 75 yds   -1.26 in  1169 fps   121 fpe  0.175 sec    5.51 in   0.88 in    3.16 in
100 yds   -4.11 in  1105 fps   109 fpe  0.241 sec   10.28 in   2.22 in    5.58 in
125 yds   -8.73 in  1054 fps    99 fpe  0.310 sec   16.81 in   4.08 in    8.62 in
150 yds  -15.28 in  1011 fps    91 fpe  0.383 sec   25.28 in   6.53 in   12.22 in
175 yds  -23.89 in   975 fps    84 fpe  0.458 sec   35.80 in   9.61 in   16.29 in
200 yds  -34.77 in   943 fps    79 fpe  0.537 sec   48.61 in  13.41 in   20.89 in
225 yds  -47.99 in   915 fps    74 fpe  0.618 sec   63.74 in  17.94 in   25.92 in
250 yds  -63.65 in   889 fps    70 fpe  0.701 sec   81.32 in  23.26 in   31.33 in
275 yds  -81.94 in   865 fps    66 fpe  0.786 sec  101.53 in  29.44 in   37.17 in
300 yds -103.08 in   842 fps    63 fpe  0.874 sec  124.58 in  36.55 in   43.48 in
325 yds -127.09 in   821 fps    60 fpe  0.965 sec  150.51 in  44.61 in   50.18 in
350 yds -154.00 in   801 fps    57 fpe  1.057 sec  179.33 in  53.67 in   57.20 in
375 yds -184.15 in   781 fps    54 fpe  1.151 sec  211.40 in  63.82 in   64.65 in
400 yds -217.77 in   763 fps    52 fpe  1.249 sec  246.93 in  75.17 in   72.58 in
425 yds -255.00 in   745 fps    49 fpe  1.348 sec  286.08 in  87.77 in   80.95 in
450 yds -295.91 in   728 fps    47 fpe  1.451 sec  328.90 in 101.66 in   89.73 in
475 yds -340.53 in   711 fps    45 fpe  1.555 sec  375.44 in 116.88 in   98.87 in
500 yds -388.90 in   695 fps    43 fpe  1.661 sec  425.73 in 133.46 in  108.34 in
525 yds -441.61 in   679 fps    41 fpe  1.770 sec  480.36 in 151.60 in  118.29 in
550 yds -499.04 in   664 fps    39 fpe  1.882 sec  539.70 in 171.45 in  128.78 in
575 yds -561.27 in   649 fps    37 fpe  1.996 sec  603.85 in 193.06 in  139.76 in
600 yds -628.39 in   635 fps    36 fpe  2.113 sec  672.89 in 216.49 in  151.21 in
625 yds -700.47 in   620 fps    34 fpe  2.233 sec  746.88 in 241.78 in  163.08 in
650 yds -777.57 in   607 fps    33 fpe  2.355 sec  825.90 in 268.98 in  175.35 in
675 yds -860.40 in   593 fps    31 fpe  2.480 sec  910.65 in 298.35 in  188.15 in
700 yds -948.63 in   580 fps    30 fpe  2.607 sec 1000.79 in 329.81 in  201.34 in
725 yds-1043.52 in   567 fps    29 fpe  2.738 sec 1097.60 in 363.81 in  215.18 in
750 yds-1145.18 in   554 fps    27 fpe  2.873 sec 1201.18 in 400.42 in  229.61 in
775 yds-1253.74 in   541 fps    26 fpe  3.010 sec 1311.65 in 439.71 in  244.60 in
800 yds-1369.28 in   529 fps    25 fpe  3.150 sec 1429.11 in 481.75 in  260.11 in

Offline slim rem 7

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2008, 05:44:23 PM »
 so hit the squirrel an forget it.. i have had 22 rds land on me ,,never hurt a bit coming down.. now a more strait shot and you better be sure you know whats behind your target.. any good  22 hunter knows that ,i hope..

Offline slim rem 7

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2008, 11:00:24 AM »
 my cz will almost zero stingers at a 100 yds.. i found this out as i had my groups ammo zeroed at 75 and put in some stingers..just a tiny holdover and its dead on.. this works good as i keep one mag with standard and another with stinger..using both rnds i can go from 10to 90 with standard lr rounds.. then100 to 150 or so  with stingers. and still have the rnd
 carry enough energy to make ethical shots on small game..

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2008, 05:29:24 AM »
so hit the squirrel an forget it.. i have had 22 rds land on me ,,never hurt a bit coming down.. now a more strait shot and you better be sure you know whats behind your target.. any good  22 hunter knows that ,i hope..

Hit the squirrel and forget it? Are you suggesting a squirrel will stop a .22 LR? I grew up hunting squirrels with a .22 and my dad always insisted on using "shorts". Shorts make a lot less noise, especially the standard velocity or match grade and don't carry nearly as far as longrifles but will still shoot through any squirrel. Dad also claimed that a longrifle bullet will zip through a squirrel and may leave it dead on the limb while a short will knock it off the branch, although I've never tested that theory. He also said "if you can't hit it in the head, don't shoot at it with a .22".  Several lost critters later I concluded he was absolutely right about that.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline CajunBass

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2008, 06:27:17 AM »
I'm always pretty careful where I shoot, but I figure if I or anyone else ever manages to get hit by a 22 bullet falling out of the sky, well, it's just about as unlucky as getting hit by a meteor.  (Which of course does happen, I admit.)

Offline Bigeasy

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Re: Safety of using .22 on Squirrels in Trees
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2008, 07:30:22 PM »

Dad always taught us boys that part of setting up the shot was to make sure there was another tree or ample branch behind the target to take the round after it passed through the squirrel ..... and if you were not sure the shot was safe downrange pass it up and wait for a better opportunity. 


As Ray says above, thats the real answer..
Personal opinion is a good thing, and everyone is entitled to one.  The hard part is separating informed opinion from someone who is just blowing hot air....