Advice on ML needed

[curteric]

A friend invited me on a muzzle loader antelope hunt this fall. I have no experience with muzzle loaders. I know that scopes will be legal. Where do I start?
Curt

[Keith Lewis]

Sort of depends on where you are hunting and what the regulations are for that area. Different states have different requirements for muzzleloader hunts. Check out the regulations first. Since it is an antelope hunt I would guess you would be looking for a fairly long distance shooting muzzleloader using fairly light aerodynamic sabot/bullet combinations. My personal recommendation if smokeless powder is not legal and you cannot justify using a Savage smokeless powder muzzleloader which will shoot the long distances (but is likely not legal), then I would look for one of the Knight long distance rifles. Pick one with the action and fit that is to your likeing and get one with the longer barrels.  Knight Disk Extreme, Knight Long Range Hunter, or even the newer Rollingblock KRB, and probably go with a .50 caliber. Knight has some real good boattail bullets available. Knight has a .52 but the available bullets etc. are limited for that one. I would not choose a .45 just because it also has limitations and the .50 will do anything the .45 will do with proper bullet selection. I own both Thompson Center rifles as well as some Whites and the Knight KRB as well as a few others. The T/C rifles are fine but personally I think the Knight will outshoot it with a larger selection of sabot/bullet combinations that are avauilable. My T/C Omega shoots well but is very picky as to what it will shoot and what will fit down the barrel. T/C rifles have very tight bores and also have the Quick Load muzzle machining which many do not like for shooting any solid lead bullets. T/C only recommends sabot/bullet projectiles now and shooting big solid lead conicals is much better left to the Whites and the Knights.  Conicals might be of interest if you decide to hunt heavier game like Elk in some states like Colorado where sabots are not legal. Hope this is a start.  Forgot to mention that there is a new substitute powder for muzzleloaders that is supposed to be on the market the first of April. Blackhorn 209 made by Western Powders (AKA Accurate Powder).  This would be a good choice for you just starting as is is much more forgiving for improper cleaning after shooting as well as performance with lighter sabot/bullet combinations. Initial tests look very good for velocity and accuracy. The powder is going to be more expensive than most of the others but will save you money in the long run over buying several others to find what works best for you. I probably have a couple hundred dollars in powders that either don't work well or I just don't like sitting on the shelf.

[30-06man]

A friend invited me on a muzzle loader antelope hunt this fall. I have no experience with muzzle loaders. I know that scopes will be legal. Where do I start?
Curt

First you need to read the rules and regs on ML hunting in the state you are in. I would go with a T/c, Knight or savage if legal to use smokeless power.

[SuperKirby]

I just got the Knight KRB7.  Haven't had the chance to take it hunting yet, but from the one day at the range that I've had with it, it's a great gun.  I would definately recommend it.

[kawie]

im assuming if you re friend invited you that he has some experience with muzzle loaders.get with him an his gun an go shooting so you can get a feel for what you need an have to do.im on my fourth muzzle loader(optima pro 45,Winchester apex 45,traditions pursuit 50,nef sidekick 50 just got it less than a week ago an havent fired it)they all shot well 2 inches an under at 100 yrds.Winchester could do 1.5 inch groups at 150 with 200gr sst.my pursuit seems to be the most accurate,before the season i shot a 5 shot group at 50yrds were 4 shots went into less than 3/4 an inch with the first shot flier from clean barrel opened it to just less than a inch(250gr sst over 90gr of t7 3f and lighly oiling sabot before loading).i guess what im saying is that muzzle loading isnt for everyone so why pay 400 dollars an more if you dont know if youre going to like it or not.all these guns cost me 250 dollars or less apeice an seem to shoot well when you practice an find the load that shoots.i have nothing against TC,KNIGHT,WHITE an so on.there great rifles an would love to have onebut a bit pricy an im just starting.been using a muzzle loader for 5 years so im a rookie to.

[curteric]

I really appreciate the help, Thanks. The local stores don't have anything to look at. The local Gander only has a few TC's  and that's all I've been able to find around here. The state that the hunt is in allows  black powder or substitutes only, so that eliminates the Savages. I guess I'll have to make a trip to the large metro area.  MSP/ST.PAUL. and with gas prices the way they are it will cost me more to make the trip than buy the rifle!
Curt

[Keith Lewis]

You may find that there are few Knight rifles on store racks, I'm not sure why but that is what I find. With all the muzzleloaders I have if I were in your position knowing what I know today I would look for a Knight Long Range Hunter. R&R has two for $550. If that is too steep they also have a couple of Knight Extremes for just over $300. Stainless and blue avaible in the Extremes. You would only be giving up one inch of barrel (27 on the LRH and 26 on the Extreme). The LRH also has a fluted barrel and laminated fancy stock. I think the Green Mountain barrel is difficult to beat for long range accuracy. If the style of a bolt does not appeal then look at the KRB. I got one in stainless from them for $330 delivered to the door. Can't remember if you can use a scope. That may have an effect on what you choose. Some of the Knight rifles were made without any iron sights.  The KRB has iron sights but the stock is better for scope use. The iron sights are hard to get down on the stock far enough to use with ease. Lots of information but you can never get enough and the final decision you have to make on fit and feel as well as all the technical stuff.

[curteric]

Keith
I can use a scope. Who is R & R I've tried Googling but can not find them, what am I missing?
Curt

[Busta]

curteric,

What State are you going to be hunting in? Some States have caliber restrictions, ignition restrictions, bullet restrictions, powder restrictions, and other restrictions. I would start by getting a big game hunting handbook, or going to their web site and looking up the regulations. If you can use a scope, I think we can safely eliminate some States from the equation.

What type of action do you like? Bolt, break (tip-up), drop block, rolling block, plunger action, or side hammer. The biggest determining factor will be what type of ignition they allow. You don't want to buy a rifle that would not be allowed. Make sure of the regulations before buying. Get back with us and we can get you pointed in the right direction. Lots of really good muzzleloaders can be had at very good prices this time of year. If you decide what you might want, let us know and someone will know where you can get the best buy.

This is a link to R & R. You can search by brand and caliber, saves some time.
http://www.rrarms.com/catalog.php?action=1004

[curteric]

The state is Wyoming their website states that muzzle loaders of at least 40/100 inch dia. and a charge of at least 50 grains of black powder or equivalent, nothing is stated about ignition systems, a phone call confirmed that scopes are legal. I didn't ask about ignition.
My center-fire rifles are all Ruger #1's and my shotguns are Browning over-unders, so falling blocks or break opens are what I would prefer.
curteric