Author Topic: Scoping new 1895 vs. receiver peep (Read 6286 times)

Empty Quiver · « **on:** March 22, 2008, 08:35:05 AM »

I "want" to mount my 1.5x5 IR Loopy on this rifle... but after handling it I am really liking the balance of the clean rifle. My Question is, how to mount the scope using Warne QR rings and have a set of ghost ring style sights as well. The idea being a clean fast handling stalking gun and a low light stand gun in 30 secs. The stock sights aren't as kind to the eyes as they once were, and I'm hoping a peep sight on the receiver or maybe on Weaver base, not unlike the removable carry handle / ACOG on an AR 15 . Thanks for indulging a newb, I've learned tons by lurking , maybe one day I'll be able to add something.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #1 on:** March 22, 2008, 08:54:53 AM »

EQ,

Here is the target from my Marlin 1895XLR at 100 yards shooting a Cast Performance 405 grain bullet over 55 grains of Varget. The first 2 shots were "foul the barrel" shots and the next 3 shots made the cloverleaf. Now, this was off of a bench of course, but after this "round of shootin" I see no need for a scope. Oh, it's a Williams peep sight, but I think a ghost ring will do ya justice as well. Factory front sight.

Swampman · « **Reply #2 on:** March 22, 2008, 10:53:05 AM »

For hunting, I think a scope is a must. For the range it doesn't matter if you miss, or shoot the wrong target.

canon6 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 22, 2008, 11:54:17 AM »

I have both, a 2 1/2 power scope(scout mount) and Skinner peep.Swampman has it on the nose,use a scope when you can .just my2c Doug

Davemuzz · « **Reply #4 on:** March 22, 2008, 02:55:40 PM »

Ghee.....I sure hope the PA whitetail don't read this post. 'Cause for the last 2 years I've shot a doe using that peep sight with one shot. I didn't miss.......and I didn't shoot the wrong target.....and the deer died.

Dave

Slufoot · « **Reply #5 on:** March 22, 2008, 03:52:04 PM »

Quote from: Empty Quiver on March 22, 2008, 08:35:05 AM

I "want" to mount my 1.5x5 IR Loopy on this rifle... but after handling it I am really liking the balance of the clean rifle. My Question is, how to mount the scope using Warne QR rings and have a set of ghost ring style sights as well. The idea being a clean fast handling stalking gun and a low light stand gun in 30 secs. The stock sights aren't as kind to the eyes as they once were, and I'm hoping a peep sight on the receiver or maybe on Weaver base, not unlike the removable carry handle / ACOG on an AR 15 . Thanks for indulging a newb, I've learned tons by lurking , maybe one day I'll be able to add something.

Hey Empty Quiver,
Funny you should post this thread, I bought my 1895G back in 1999 and mounted a Leupold VX-III 1.5-5 in Warne Maxima Quick Detach rings on Warne Maxima steel bases. When I worked up the load I was going to use I lined up the factory iron sights as a back-up and to use in rainy weather. I kept this setup for 5 or 6 years and always hunted in places with it where 100 yards would have been a long shot. I finally removed the scope and bases and installed a Williams WGRS peep sight on the receiver and installed a green fiber optic front sight. This gun is now a joy to carry and the deer I have shot with it didn't know they were shot with a non-scoped gun.
With the scope I could keep 3 shots close to an inch at 100 yards, with the peep I can keep'em close to 2 inches at the same distance, plenty good enough for deer hunting at the ranges I will use this gun.
I haven't missed the scope since I took it off, actually I'm glad I did.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #6 on:** March 22, 2008, 04:31:31 PM »

Thanks for input, am I getting to worried about the low light conditions? I suppose what I'm asking is as much can it be done as should it be done. My last hunt involved a shot at last light, that I honestly believe was made ethical by the light gathering properties of the scope. With no real world experience with peeps I'm just a bit shy of them.

Swampman · « **Reply #7 on:** March 22, 2008, 04:40:51 PM »

You sound like a wise man. Peeps are ok in good light and within bow range.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #8 on:** March 23, 2008, 02:15:28 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on March 22, 2008, 04:40:51 PM

You sound like a wise man. Peeps are ok in good light and within bow range.

Sounds like a man that doesn't know which end of a peep sight to look thru.

Williams makes what is called "Twilight" apertures that will fit all their peep sights. (and Lyman as well). the outer ring is fitted with brass for easy low light pickup. The available sizes are:

TW-3/8 x .050* .....3/8” O.D. with .050 inner hole
TW-3/8 x .093* .....3/8” O.D. with .093 inner hole
TW-3/8 x .125* .....3/8” O.D. with .125 inner hole
TW-3/8 x .150* .....3/8” O.D. with .150 inner hole
TW-1/2 x .050.......1/2” O.D. with .050 inner hole
TW-1/2 x .093.......1/2” O.D. with .093 inner hole
TW-1/2 x .125.......1/2” O.D. with .125 inner hole

Once you practice with a larger hole peep, it just becomes "natural" to line up the front sight in the center. Put a fiber optic sight on the front and low light concerns are a thing of the past.

Swamp, As far as using a peep sight for "just within bow range" I've got $100 on the table. You bring your 45-70 with whatever sight you want. We will put whatever target you want at 100 yards, and shoot off hand, no supports, three shots, no "warm up's" and the tighest group takes the $200. And we can do this in twilight if you like!

Dave

Swampman · « **Reply #9 on:** March 23, 2008, 02:25:15 AM »

Targets are one thing. Animals are another. I've shot peeps all my life and they do fine on the range in perfect conditions. They aren't worth a hoot in the woods though.

Slufoot · « **Reply #10 on:** March 23, 2008, 03:25:50 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on March 23, 2008, 02:25:15 AM

Targets are one thing. Animals are another. I've shot peeps all my life and they do fine on the range in perfect conditions. They aren't worth a hoot in the woods though.

Hey Swampman, I just don't understand your logic on this. I've never had any trouble using a peep in the woods. I use a large .150" aperture and when it starts getting dark I screw it out and use the sight as a gost ring. With the fiber optic front you will be surprised at the low light capability.
I'm not saying the peep is better than a scope, far from it. A good quality scope will gather light and magnify your target, the peep will never do this. The scope adds weight and bulk to your gun and ruins it's natural carrying qualities, the peep doesn't. I had the scope and removed it for a peep and fiber optic and I don't regret it at all, actually I'm very glad I did it.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

Swampman · « **Reply #11 on:** March 23, 2008, 03:35:54 AM »

"ruins it's natural carrying qualities"

I don't understand this oft heard claim either. I have 9 scoped Marlins and they all carry & balance perfectly. I want to be sure of my target before I pull the trigger. A scope gives me that last second safety check. I've been shooting peeps for years. Frequently I out shoot my friends who are using scopes. I don't want a peep for hunting.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #12 on:** March 23, 2008, 03:51:01 AM »

I have been in both camps on this one. Last year I removed a 4x Burris from my 1895 and replaced it with a Williams peep. I used this new configuration for a long range cowboy shoot. I was amazed at the effectiveness on steel targets out to 300 yards. The scopeless 1895 has a radically different feel to it. I can now carry it with 2 fingers by the top of the receiver, nice. I have taken my largest deer ever with this rifle, scoped. This year I will try the peeps for hunting and enjoy the "new" feel of the old design. I guess I am uncommitted at this time.

Cheese

Davemuzz · « **Reply #13 on:** March 23, 2008, 04:35:12 AM »

Ok Swamp.....we won't shoot at targets......we'll shoot at groundhogs!

But only if they are running! And we'll up the ante to $200 per man. First dead 'hog gets the pot!

(I'll just bring 2 boolits..one to shoot 'em, and one to show you what I just shot 'em with.).

Dave

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #14 on:** March 23, 2008, 06:42:10 AM »

Well I guess it's safe to say both systems have their detractors. Can I have both, or will I need to pick a side, pay's my money and takes my chance. What about a tang sight with a QR scope, that sounds like an abomination but I'm willing to entertain any idea. If push comes to shove I will probably go with the XS system as I've heard lots of positive comments about it.

MTGG4570 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 23, 2008, 08:34:49 AM »

With my eyes where I can not see clear enough down through the iron sights, a scope is a must. I put a low power Weaver K3 1.5x3x20mm which gives me a nice clear target and allows me to group my rounds very nicely. Hunting this year will be very good with the 1895G.

Rangr44 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 23, 2008, 10:05:55 AM »

If you use a standard Weaver-style scope base on your Marlin, XS makes a clip-on peep that clamps to the rail after the scope is removed.
Since it's a bit high (almost as high as the scope C/L), you'll need to switch out the front sight blade for a higher one in order to properly zero the gun - a good excuse to try a bright, fiber optic front bead.

Alternatively, the XS LeverScout mount places its front base anchor at the rear barrel sight dovetail, and it's rear in the two forward scope mount holes - leaving the rear two available for a top mount peep like an XS or Williams WGRS, top-mount FP, or room for a side-mount Williams FP or 5D or Lyman, etc.
Your Leupold doesn't have enough eye relief for the scout position, however - which needs a scout scope or a pistol scope with an eye relief window starting at about 9".

For fast shooting while hunting, in poor light especially, the peep's aperture is best removed, and the resulting "ghost ring" used by simply looking through (not "at") it , at the game, and placing the front bead on target.
A bright fiber optic front bead is "picked up" even faster.

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #17 on:** March 23, 2008, 01:26:54 PM »

Rangr that sounds like what I'm looking for. The hiviz type front sight sounds like a good idea also.

Rangr44 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 24, 2008, 09:04:49 AM »

Fiber optic fronts, from different companies:

http://www.williamsgunsight.com/gunsights/image33.htm

http://www.hivizsights.com/Dovetail-Rifle-Style-Front-Sight--P3C2.aspx

http://www.truglosights.com/content/products/firearm/sluggun_rifle/metal_dovetail_sights.asp

The XS Leverscope mount/rail setup:

http://www.xssights.com/store/scope.html

The XS Weaver Back Up, clamp-on peep for Weaver-type rails:

http://www.xssights.com/store/rifle.html

MidwayUSA & Brownell's has most of these products online.

http://www.midwayUSA.com/

http://www.brownells.com/

Both Williams Gun Sight Co, and XS Sights have knowledgeable, customer-friendly technical assistance folks at the end of your telephone line, toll-free.

efremtags · « **Reply #19 on:** March 24, 2008, 12:30:56 PM »

I scoped my GG with the WWG peep. It's very quick to shoot, but left a lot to desire when I was developing handloads.

The problem with peep sites is small aperture sights are accurate but not hunter friendly, and vice versa.

I added a pistol scope on a XS forward mount. The gun remains handy, though a little heaver. I can crank the scope upto 6x for load development, then back it down to 2x for hunting. I can remove it all together with QD rings for plinking or hunting in brush. It's a very flexible setup.

overall I would recommend a scope on marlin's as they are accurate and you may never take advantage of this accuracy without a scope. Keep it low powered and use QD rings so you can remove it if needed.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #20 on:** March 24, 2008, 02:34:19 PM »

I use both and prefer a peep. they just look right. In the brush theres nothing faster. Not even a scout scope for me. I think the extra twilight factor of a scope is not that important as legual shooting hours in most place end before a peep becomes unusable. Only use i can see for a scope is blink shooting where your going to shoot over a 100 yards and i dont hunt like that.

Swampman · « **Reply #21 on:** March 24, 2008, 03:35:41 PM »

"they just look right."

Looking right is important.

Keith L · « **Reply #22 on:** March 24, 2008, 08:26:34 PM »

The nice thing about this disagreement is that everyone can be right. This is one of those matters of personal preference where there is no wrong answer.

Foggy · « **Reply #23 on:** March 24, 2008, 11:11:36 PM »

I have Ashley Outdoors (pre XS) Ghost Ring set on my 1895 love it . Handles fast and shoots well. You do want you think is best YOUR the one that has to use it.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #24 on:** March 25, 2008, 01:35:55 AM »

Quote from: Keith L on March 24, 2008, 08:26:34 PM

The nice thing about this disagreement is that everyone can be right. This is one of those matters of personal preference where there is no wrong answer.

Very true statement. It really is a toss up. Actually, last year I did hit a running G-hog at about 60 yards......but that was with my .223....with a Leupold scope...50mm objective lens.

Now....could I have hit him with my 45-70?? Well, at that yardage...he was running away from me...and I was a good 25 yards above him....It would have been darn fun tryin. Besides, I shot him with my .223 T\C....the 45-70...I would have had 5 chances.....5 chances would have been way more fun!

Dave

Rangr44 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 25, 2008, 01:06:32 PM »

[Now....could I have hit him with my 45-70?? ]

Heck - The bullet's probably as big as the g-hog's vital zone !

Davemuzz · « **Reply #26 on:** March 25, 2008, 02:22:18 PM »

Quote from: Rangr44 on March 25, 2008, 01:06:32 PM

[Now....could I have hit him with my 45-70?? ]

Heck - The bullet's probably as big as the g-hog's vital zone !

Like goin after a skeeter with a bazooka!

K.K · « **Reply #27 on:** March 28, 2008, 08:42:58 AM »

LIke the gentleman said above, there is no right or wrong answer. I had ghost ring sights on my 450 for several years and they worked great at short range. Now, I've removed them and replaced them with a 1.5-5 Leupold in Warne rings and have stretched my effective range a great deal. I think the key is to stick with a low power scope to maintain handling. But, to each his own, they both served me well.

Hooker · « **Reply #28 on:** March 28, 2008, 02:17:43 PM »

When I purchased my 1895 I had no intentions to add a scope. After a trip to the range I was so impressed with it's performance, I just had to go with a scope. A rifle that shoots this well deserves all the the extra accuracy enhancement you can give it. I've had the rifle almost 20 years now and it still impresses me every time I shoot it.

Pat

Echo4Lima · « **Reply #29 on:** April 02, 2008, 03:49:10 AM »

A properly zeroed scope will make a good shooter a better shooter. You owe it to the game.